Reloading Hornady Brass - Shorter Brass

FarmLand.....

Hmmm....... If it's just the Brass Case Your focusing on, and not the LE bullets..... I know that most Cast bullets have several grooves down lower on the bullet, and the much more expensive Barnes 250 grain TSX bullets have several grooves in the bullet shank. I've gotten 5 boxes of those Barnes for my Dad's 45-70, and they are awesome, but that's when I was working all the time and makin' plenty cash.

If You can find the right bullet with "extra" (more than 1) grooves in the shank, that would enable You to crimp without crimping INTO the bullet (which would gouge/slightly deform the bullet shank), I'd try that. The LITTLE BIT extra bullet travel between the case mouth and the lands shouldn't cause much problem, unless You have alot of freebore and/or are using a bullet with a very short, full diameter shank. That's another beauty of the expensive Barnes. The copper bullets are longer...

Or, You may also look into trying a lightER crimp into the Bullet of Choice, and see what happens, just watch for higher pressure....
 
Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading 9th Edition clearly says "Case Trim Length: 2.040" for the 250 gr. Monoflex and the 325 gr. FTX bullets. After trimming some (10) trial cases, I find that I cannot use the Lee flaring die because the case is too short and I find that the Lee factory crimp die is also useless on such a short case. I guess my FTX bullets will look nice in a glass jar on my reloading bench. One less Hornady customer now.
 
I just received a few Hornady cases in a once fired purchase. They are from the FTX ammo and shorter than standard cases. I just loaded them up with shot capsules for snake loads. They will become dedicated for just that purpose. I also used the Lee flare die and it worked just fine
 
I happened on some FTX cases in 44 mag and 45 colt. I have loaded them several times with the same loads I use in standard cases.The loads are no where near max. I am not sure of the 45 load but the 44 load is 8.5 grains of Unique with a 250 Keith SWC, home cast.

I load all of the FTX cases together because you have to adjust your flair, seater, and FC dies for the shorter cases. Is it a hassle? Not really. I can adjust the dies in a minute or so. Therefore I see no need to discard a couple of hundred pieces of brass for lack of wanting to make a few adjustments.

All of the 45's are shot in revolvers but the 44's are used in revolvers and a Browning 92 lever gun. I see no change in accuracy nor do I have any feeding issues. I don't have a 45/70, but I would think a FTX in that caliber would behave the same as the 44.

I can't comment on the RCBS crimp dies because I don't use their dies, but the Lee FC Die will crimp the shorter FTX brass just fine, in 44 and 45c
 
Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading 9th Edition clearly says "Case Trim Length: 2.040" for the 250 gr. Monoflex and the 325 gr. FTX bullets. After trimming some (10) trial cases, I find that I cannot use the Lee flaring die because the case is too short and I find that the Lee factory crimp die is also useless on such a short case. I guess my FTX bullets will look nice in a glass jar on my reloading bench. One less Hornady customer now.
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Hornady's load data is designed for Hornady's components and tools. (The same goes for Speer [RCBS tools], Lyman, Dillon, etc...)
You should always keep that in mind when you come across an odd suggestion (like "trim the cases super-short to use this bullet").

That being said...
I don't use FTX/Monoflex bullets in levergun cartridges. The need for deep-seating or brass shortening is something I don't want to deal with.
And when I end up with the LVR (short) brass, I pass it on to someone that actually wants it. Not long ago, I gave two (or more) boxes of .430" 265 gr FTXs and some LVR .444 Marlin brass away to a reloader that needed it.

If I did want to use the short brass, and/or FTX/Monoflex bullets, I'd pick up a set of Hornady dies. They are capable of handling the short brass right out of the box.
Around the same price point... there are several 'boutique' suppliers that offer expander dies and/or modified Lee factory crimp dies that are intended for use on the short brass.
 
Call Hornady and ask them for a shortened shellholder. You can also take an existing shellholder and remove the required 0.1.
 
Call Hornady and ask them for a shortened shellholder. You can also take an existing shellholder and remove the required 0.1.
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If you grind a 'standard' shell holder by 0.100", it will no longer "hold" cartridges in place. You'll be able to place cases on top of the shell "holder", but it won't retain them.

Standard dimensions call for 0.125" from the base of the case to the top of the shell holder (something I started calling "deck height" on this forum about 6 years ago). Common tolerances for most shell holder seem to be +/-0.015". Lee shell holders that I've measured run about +/-0.025". Hornady shell holders are the most consistent at 0.125" +/-0.005".

If you grind 0.100" away, you'll have zero to 0.040" or so left above the deck. Since that's well below the top of the rim of any cartridge that Hornady makes LVR brass for, that's gonna be a problem...



If you want to use LVR brass in standard dies, you need to modify the dies or use bullets that don't need expansion or crimping of the brass.
 
Just got around to reading this thread. Since I never had a problem with bullet seating/crimping with either the longer case or the shorter Hornady, just a matter of die adjustment, had to rush out and see what die set I was using. Turned out to be Redding. Matter of luck I guess when purchasing the die set since the two different case lengths were not yet a considetation. Just remember to back off some when seating/crimping the longer cases after previously seating the Hornadies.
 
Hornady cases

Not sure why Hornady did it with some calibers, but .35 Remington seem to be the same length as my Remington express cases! But I know the 45/70 are shorter because I have a box of those also. Suppose it has to be the bullet length.
 
Suppose it has to be the bullet length.
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It's a combination of factors.
Case length.
Bullet length.
Chamber dimensions.
Cannelure location (to allow for a crimp and avoid bullet set-back in heavy-recoiling cartridges).
And, most importantly, overall length limitations of the firearms typically chambered for the cartridge.

.444 Marlin, for example, was designed around handgun bullets with short, stubby noses. As such, case length was maxed out and the chamber dimensions include a very short throat. Combined with the most common .444s being Marlin Model 444s (modified 336 actions) and Winchester 1894 'Big Bores', you get a cartridge that has little, if any room for longer bullets.

The only way to use a longer bullet without seating the ogive below the case mouth is to trim the brass. Doing so keeps feeding smooth, and allows for a solid crimp.
 
While I was a little upset to find these cases were short after the fact of having bought 2 boxes of this ammo only to find out my gun does not like it anyways. I was able to compensate with my lee dies for my cast 405's rather easily however.

First the expander plug was bottoming out on the shelholder and not even touching the case mouth. A small washer placed inside the die solved this and I was able to expand the cases enough it stopped shaving the bullets during seating. I just remove the washer for other proper length cases.

As for crimping. I bought a lee factory crimp die anyways as I like a good solid crimp for these heavy loads anyways.
 
Interesting video but the answers seem pretty simple .

1) Hornady or any other manufacture does not load there ammo so we can reload there cases later . It's just a plus for reloaders . They have ZERO obligation to do so . If they did we would not see steel or aluminum cases .

2) As a giant company loading millions of rounds a year . Why would they add an extra step in there loading process by adding that cannelure for set back . When the brass is first made they all need to be cut to length . Setting the machine up or having a dedicated machine set up to cut the brass a little shorter has virtually no effect on there bottom line because the cases needed to be cut anyway .

I don't see any company spending hundreds of thousands of dollars extra every year just so I can reload there brass .

That's my .02 , take it for what it's worth :D
 
I am in full agreement with David Wile.

The leverevolution ftx approach is an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem. Long range shooting and hunting has been done with regular .45-70 cartridges for well over a century. A flat point 405 lead bullet will "carry and kill" just fine, and a 350 is more than enough for most game in the lower 48.

It is incumbent on the shooter to thoroughly learn how their rifle and ammunition shoots.

Hornady, with their short cases has only introduced another unnecessary point of confusion to the reloading world. It can be worked around, but who needs it.
 
loading for marlin 45-70 in ftx

The easiest way to get around this without buying a lot of stuff, or factory loaded ammo, and experimenting, grinding extra costs etc.. use the standard length brass, prep the same way you always do, seat with a hollow nose seater PLUG supplied by rcbs for rcbs dies. They gave me a .35 plug and the option to make any plug i wanted if i sent in several bullets etc, made and shipped was about 25 bucks (rcbs custom dept.) but the .35 plug works good for me at this time..
I get very little length runout with a large hole comparator aluminum insert that i drilled for 45-70 years ago. (not nesseary, use overal lenght if you wish..

Seat the bullet to the overal length your gun and load book requires, keep cases within min/ max length for standard 45-70, then use the factory crimp die to specifications.. (long brass, factory crimp die not in cannelure.) dont over crimp.. No nose damage, they are crimped to lee specs, not in the cannalure.. this is a rimmed case and does not ride on lead (rifling).. No grinding, no special brass, no problems for my marlin cowboy... (except for my 68 year old eyes) (:,) DAVE
 
I don't understand one thing in this thread. Why would anyone make short case's? Isn't there SAMMI spec's to follow? How about Hornady's new case's sold to reloaders, are they short also? See if I got this right. The OP fired a round in witch the case actually shrunk when it was fired? I have a hard time buying that. If a case was to shrink when fired, how do case's fired in rifle's with headspace and belted and rimmed cartridge's seperate at the head? The case shorten's but also separates at the head? About feeding the leveRevolution ammo in a lever gun or semi auto. They developed that tip to take care of the problem, it's supposed to be flexible! I doubt that that has anything to do with a case being fired and shortened in the process of firing.
 
As posted by Don Fischer:
I don't understand one thing in this thread. Why would anyone make short case's? Isn't there SAMMI spec's to follow? How about Hornady's new case's sold to reloaders, are they short also? See if I got this right. The OP fired a round in witch the case actually shrunk when it was fired? I have a hard time buying that. If a case was to shrink when fired, how do case's fired in rifle's with headspace and belted and rimmed cartridge's seperate at the head? The case shorten's but also separates at the head? About feeding the leveRevolution ammo in a lever gun or semi auto. They developed that tip to take care of the problem, it's supposed to be flexible! I doubt that that has anything to do with a case being fired and shortened in the process of firing.
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Hey Don,

It would seem you may have missed a bit in this thread, and I might suggest you read all the posts from the beginning. This is an old thread and goes back to when Hornady started making a new type of 45-70 ammo (LeveRevolution) intended for use in lever action rifles. The ammo uses a soft spritzer type point so it can be used in a tubular magazine, and to accommodate this bullet's cannelure groove, they shortened the brass case intentionally.

No, the original poster did not say his case shrank after firing - the ammunition was designed that way to accommodate Hornady's new soft tipped spitzer bullet. Read the thread posts from the beginning.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile
 
Don, read the thread. (Post #30, for example.)
The explanation is here.

SAAMI standards are voluntary. Non-members don't have to follow them at all, and even members can choose to ignore them, if desired.

Hornady's component brass is full-length.

No, the case didn't shrink.
Read the thread.
 
Same condition exists with their 444 Marlin Leverevolution. Should be 2.25", but it is actually 2.065. I use that brass for all my Bellm and JDJ chambers and that don't cut it!
Hornady should not deviate from SAAMI spec even if they use a rubber tip! 'nuff said.
 
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