'Reloading' For Shooting Vs. 'Re-Manufactured' Cases & Ammo

The same way you hone any bore, with a bore hone.
Anything from a stick with lapping compound to a micrometer adjustable bore hone.

Crushing, then expanding the neck is hard on the brass. Period.
No one can argue that point.

Not even annealing (softening) will completely remove the compaction/expansion (thick/thin/stress) stress.
Simple metal working/metallurgy.

SO,
Since you can't or won't do anything about your favorite brass getting blown out way too far...

Instead of WAY overworking the brass, you simply don't crush the crap out of it in the first place...
It's common sense.

It DOES take use of somewhat precise measuring equipment (accurate caliper),
and we all know what the 'No Gauges Or Measuring' guys think about calipers & gauging your work, so they are lost right there...

------

Cutting length on a chamber depends on the barrel, it simply gets shorter overall length.
A full size barrel profile from chamber forward to muzzle could concevably be cut from say 24" to 2".

Tapered profile barrels have less area that is safe to cut into since wall material gets thinner as you move chamber forward.

I have no idea about your 'One Turn' argument...
Dove tail front sight cuts are the only restriction that require full turn cuts...

and since you weren't paying attention, you missed the 'Problems' part, 0.070" throat errosion, and only if the bore is still any good, misaligned chambers, chambers seriously screwed up when you get them...

Usually, when someone advocates using WAY blown out brass to get any semblance of accuracy, without admitting the obvious, they have a way blown out chamber that could benifit from rehab, if the rifling is salvagable...
Instead, they continue to blow out brass.
entirely their choice.
 
Lets not import Jerry Springer to TFL

There are those who appear on Jerry Springer as guests.There are those who sit in the audience,and there are those who watch.

Last night I declined to comment on this thread.I chose to not participate in the drama.
We have a new member who posted a different thread asking about "Blanks with no powder" This gentleman bought a 9mm handgun and was asking about dummy rounds for safe familiarization.
Jeephammer,you chose to comment on that thread,you lead your comment with "I don't want to start a crapfight"

Why bring the drama??

You opened this thread with a semantics question Reloading vs remanufacturing...but it quickly transformed to a venting session about drama on another forum.
Why bring it here?
Then you have a little spat here with Snyper,and another with Gunplummer....

When you yourself come to the point you have to begin your posts with "I do not want to start a crapfight"
Ask yourself this,Mr Jeephammer,What one person do all these crapfights have in common??? Hmmm???

Please let the drama that occurs on other forums stay on other forums,and lets not turn TFL into the Jerry Springer show.
 
I didn't want to start something because it was already suggested the question was in the wrong forum.
Didnt need it turning ugly just because I posted...
Apparently its upset someone since it got dragged to another thread entirely.

Did you follow everyone that posted in that thread and rebuke them?

And while we are discussing that very thing,
This started out as a thread on case conditioning, particularly in volume.
Volume doesn't suggest loading for ONE particular, out of specification chamber.

It seems any suggestion of specifications, measuring equipment/gauges, ect. Really seems to set some folks off...
The single comment shows that, "The only gauge you need is the chamber".

I guess if you have ONE chamber, you already have things figured out and simply don't need/want to explore anything else.

I would like to continue learning, and continue to make the best cases/rounds I can muster...
I don't know what others are doing, it's not real clear from their postings.
 
There are many approaches and definitions.
A lot of folks used to get started with a mallet and a Lee loader.They only needed 15 rounds a year and strived for minute of deer.Lyman tong tools,etc.
Today,a lot of folks get their needs met with a single stage press,a scale,and a loading manual.Pretty much,the "need" might be moderate quantities of hunting and practice ammo.These folks can be justifiably minimalist."Don't try to convince me I need to spend money"
They really CAN do just fine without a chrono,gages,etc.No argument.

And,there are other folks who need quantity economic ammo for games,matches,etc. Those divide between those who need quantity,and those who require match accuracy.

Three gunners and cowboy shooters might have different priorities than High Power Shooters.

Oh,but wait,there was Harry Pope making special dies for his rifles,and the benchrest and 1000 yd folks,and the crow hunters...Farrel powder measures,neck turning,concentricity gages,Wilson straight line dies.

So somewhere in here we find The Handloader. The loader who is pursuing ammo that somehow outperforms what can be bought at Sportsman's Warehouse.

There is the guy who has a Dillon 1050,and aSquare Deal,with feeders,etc because he enjoys engineering efficiency into feeding his 3-gun habit.

Some are tailoring a load to one rifle,and optimizing brass life with minimal setback,etc.
Several different tools and systems can be used.

Many folks only shoot their own reloads ,never anyone elses.

Some commercial remanufacturers,like Black Hills,are held in high regard.

A brother had some commercial reloads wreck his Les Baer 1911.

The M-1 A and Garand shooters have some important considerations .

Oh,lets not forget the Wildcatters!!,forming,trimming Ackleying...And those cast bullet wheel gun guys

Two or three shooting buddies can cover different degrees of all of these groups.They learn,grow and share
A cowboy shooter might be a benchrester.A three gunner might be a prairie dogger.

It can make for a pretty rich pot of soup.
 
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jeephammer said:
45_auto
As a matter of fact, I do roll a lot of handgun cases, particularly ones fired in semi-autos with oval chambers and dratamic feed ramps...
Some are to take the feed ramp bulge out of the case,
Others are to simply make the case ROUND again.
Click to expand...

Why?

Your cases are NOT perfectly round no matter what you do. If you think they are, you just need better measuring equipment.

Using typical reloading dies, me and 99.999% of other reloaders are perfectly capable of getting our brass that has been shot through oval chambers and chambers with feed ramp bulges (I have no idea what a "dratamic" feed ramp is) round enough to function perfectly without rolling. So why should we?

You seem to put a lot of value into meeting arbitrary dimensions which add no value to the final product. You have a lot of anger directed toward people who are more concerned with making functional ammo than meeting an irrelevant dimension.

If it makes you happy, process and machine your brass until it is round out into the 10th decimal place. Just be careful not to measure it with something capable of measuring 11 decimal places ...
 
Using typical reloading dies, me and 99.999% of other reloaders are perfectly capable of getting our brass that has been shot through oval chambers and chambers with feed ramp bulges...round enough to function perfectly without rolling. So why should we?
Click to expand...

I reloaded for years before I started shooting competitively. On my way to 100% reliability was when I picked up roll sizing.

It makes the parts of the case you cannot size with a normal size die perfect again.

So dings in the rim/extractor groove and the rest of the case your size die cannot touch are back to original specs.

DSC02110.jpg


Is it a "must have"? No. Will it help you make better ammunition? Yes.
 
Nothing wrong with roll sizing. It's obviously a better process, but not necessary in the vast majority of cases. That's why I said "me and 99.999%".

You're the 0.001% of handloaders (I use that term very loosely in your case, probably take a company like Federal or Remington to compare to your operation! :)) that push the limits on equipment and processes.
 
Mine is purple, doesn't get used much since I built an automated version.

image_zpsvl7hq4bx.jpg


I could not care less about 'Bob' and his hand press reloads,
The 'Bob .4671' that started out as .45 Auto.
If 'Bob' is happy and not having issues, then I'm just tickled pink with his results!

The entire point was 'WHY DO PEOPLE RESIST...
Obviously because they can't look past their own particular situation.

And why does 'Bob' think everyone should do things 'His' way when they are having issues and can't crank out a working round at all?
Probably why 'Bob' thinks anyone doing something he's not is stupid & arrogant...

The guy that sits down and cranks out 5,000 rounds is probably going to have a lube that works, name brand or not...
The guy that has been using the same bottle of case lube for five years and still isn't to the bottom probably hasn't had much experence with anything else...

That's why I ask questions, participate in debate, try to find out what others think, try and help when I can...
Avoiding 'Bob' when I can, but 'Bob' is PERSISTANT, since he's not loading or shooting, he seems to have a lot of time to follow you around from post to post, forum to forum, espousing the same stuff on every thread possible, no matter if it applies to the conversation or not...
 
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I started roll sizing when I started speed guns.
Practice takes a lot of ammo, and reliability was a factor.
'Speed' and 100% reliable is kind of married together.

You SURE know when you hit an out of round case or a bulged case with one of these things! Lets you know right away, and in a big way!

One thing I learned, a human arm has a tendency to keep things moving,
While an auto drive NEEDS a flywheel to keep hesitation warbles out of the brass.
 
I'm not sure what is going on in this thread.

I do think I have discovered that I'm apparently doing everything the wrong way, and obviously not using the proper equipment nor measuring to the correct number of decimal places.

Man...apparently some folks cannot grasp the concept that "par is sometimes good enough to win" and instead feel the need to go beyond overboard on anal retentiveness, or argue over what the definition of "is" is.

Just reload your rounds, go shoot and enjoy the process of both. If you can't do one or the other, or both, you need to find something else to do.
 
Mr. Morris,
Heim joint on the motor end, but that looks like it might be a zero lash or press Bering on the roller end? Can't quite tell.

I wish I'd have seen that before, it would have save me a ton of machining!
The compression collet as a 'clutch' is a good idea also.

Yep, purple, been around long enough to wear out die sets.
I haven't done speed guns in more than 10 years, but got used to having 'Round' cases, so I still roll them...

Down at Knob Creek, sucking up on some good deals, traded some stuff, sold some stuff, bought so much I think the truck will drag the ground on the way home.
A guy rolled in with 40,000 pounds of General Dynamics bullets & brass for dirt cheap, wrecked my back first thing this morning.
You don't remember how much bullets weigh until you try and move 10,000 at a time! I think I blew a tube! :(

Started so early I don't even think I'm staying for night fire, completely exhausted. Looking forward to a steak & shower, dusty out here this year.
 
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There is a cam follower that rides inside the factory handle (up and down as you cycle it back and forth because of the arch the handle runs in). I just uses a double split set collar and clamped onto the factory bearing.

You can see it in this photo even though it was the counter I was taking a photo of.

DSC02025.jpg


Used a pair of set collars for the "clutch" as well, I stepped up the shaft to 1" but is is smooth with no key way on the OD, so it will slip vs tear something up in the event of a malfunction. The little tab is to keep it located if it try's to move side to side.

DSC02024.jpg


The uses for them are almost endless, you will see them in use on many of my projects.

2720.jpg
 
I've got a 25 rpm F frame gear box laying here, leftover from case processing machine, that is doing nothing but making me step over it... Might have a use for it now. Thanks.
 
Now I have to unload all this crap from the weekend, worn out, sunburned, and I don't know if I have enough coffee for this morning...
 
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