the Bulldog is great idea, and Taurus actually executed it very well with their 445 I think it was. I wish I would have gotten one of those Taurus guns 20 plus years ago. Charter Arms has good inexpensive revolvers in the lower calibers but the Bulldog .44spl has only lately been brought to better standards. The original C.A. Bulldog was a good gun, well fitted and finished, I had one, but was the epitome of carry a lot and shoot a little. then there were the down years where suspect workmanship ruined the reputation, I had two. The last Bulldog .44 spl. I had was a matt stainless gun. while the finish was barely average, the fit was pretty good. I didn't shoot more than a few hundred rounds in it and it was still locked up tight and properly timed. I traded it off because that's just something I do.
reliability of CA 44 bulldog
- Thread starter curly45
- Start date
See- this is my main issue with the Bulldog - even its supporters qualify that it's not meant to be shot a lot.
Which begs the question - how much is too much?
Where is it that you think the line should be drawn where the gun is reliable - and at what point after how many rounds is it not?
When should you quit firing it & get another one?
(after a couple of times ldoing that - then those high priced S&Ws that us "gun snobs" own start looking cheap in the long run
).While I'm not a big fan of - no - strike that - I dislike Taurus so I'm not a fan of them at all.
(no bashing - it's pure personal dislike on my part. I don't like Brussle Sprouts either..)
There were three of their guns I did like.
That .44 spl, the small .45 Colt & the small .41 mag.
Would I sell an apendage for an S&W L frame in .41 mag? Probably not, but, I would part with a pretty big chunk of stimulus money
.But - anyhow - this is drifting away. The OP asked about reliability & it seems to be really a crap shoot. I just offered an alternative with the S&W & now another alternative is the Taurus. I know nothing about the Taurus - so - I can't comment on it. It came and went too fast for me to notice it,
If you're comfortable with that ......
The C-word thing closed down the gym/pool from March 15th through May 24th.
Our Spring here in NE Ohio was cold & miserable - which kept me from my daily bicycle ride.
It was amazing how long it took me to recover from just a few months off.
I believe in keeping "sharp".
If it all the same to those that "shoot little" - I find I need to stay in touch a little more than a "little".
Hal, that is what I have other heavier revolvers for 
. I shoot quite a bit when I can and would like to shoot more if the 'w' word wasn't getting in the way... Or contests at the range that closes the range to the rest of us on weekends.... Every time I took my little Bulldog to the range though (At first it was at least once a month)... guess what ... it shot to the same place... every time. So I quit doing that. Instead, I'll shoot the GP-100 .44 Special or myrid of other sixguns instead and once in awhile blow the dust out of the Bulldog for fun. Must times the Bulldog will just be somewhere 'handy'.
A good read: Taffin on his .44 Special Bulldogs
. I shoot quite a bit when I can and would like to shoot more if the 'w' word wasn't getting in the way... Or contests at the range that closes the range to the rest of us on weekends.... Every time I took my little Bulldog to the range though (At first it was at least once a month)... guess what ... it shot to the same place... every time. So I quit doing that. Instead, I'll shoot the GP-100 .44 Special or myrid of other sixguns instead and once in awhile blow the dust out of the Bulldog for fun. Must times the Bulldog will just be somewhere 'handy'.A good read: Taffin on his .44 Special Bulldogs
I'd think that anyone with any experience at all will notice when their Bulldog is starting to get "iffy". You "will" notice it loosen up in areas it used to be tight and this usually only seems to happen when you shoot loads that are hotter then standard. When that happens, if it is a new one, send it back and have CA fix it for free. If they can see it has been abused though I'm not sure if they will. Something to look into first. If it's old and from an earlier mfg, pay out the $49.95 and ship it back for repairs. You either like this lightweight .44 Special or you don't. I love the way it carries, either on the belt or in deep pockets of pants that I check before buying that do have deeper pockets.
It's light enough not to weight you down or aggravate aging bodies. It's easy to reload for especially if you have plenty of supplies laying around from your .44 magnum days. If you want a little extra ooph without stressing out the gun carry Underwood full wadcutters. They have to be more effective then many .38 special rounds that probably won't expand from a snubby.
One day at a lgs I saw an Interarms Rossi 720 for the first time. I couldn't believe my eyes, a 3" 5 shot .44 special with adj sights about the size of a K frame in stainless no less that felt perfect in my hand. I agonized over buying it and would have years ago when I got out on the farm and in the woods more. But for everyday carry, the weight at 30 ounces or so was just a bit more then I felt I'd be comfortable with so I reluctantly passed.
Shortly thereafter I bought an older Stratford 3" Bulldog. CA rebuilt and rebarreled it to make it shoot to poa. It's a keeper for me mostly because of the ease with which it carries and shoots. They polished and reblued it so it even has some appeal to my eyes. I really like nice bluing more then the current flat black look popular today.
It's light enough not to weight you down or aggravate aging bodies. It's easy to reload for especially if you have plenty of supplies laying around from your .44 magnum days. If you want a little extra ooph without stressing out the gun carry Underwood full wadcutters. They have to be more effective then many .38 special rounds that probably won't expand from a snubby.
One day at a lgs I saw an Interarms Rossi 720 for the first time. I couldn't believe my eyes, a 3" 5 shot .44 special with adj sights about the size of a K frame in stainless no less that felt perfect in my hand. I agonized over buying it and would have years ago when I got out on the farm and in the woods more. But for everyday carry, the weight at 30 ounces or so was just a bit more then I felt I'd be comfortable with so I reluctantly passed.
Shortly thereafter I bought an older Stratford 3" Bulldog. CA rebuilt and rebarreled it to make it shoot to poa. It's a keeper for me mostly because of the ease with which it carries and shoots. They polished and reblued it so it even has some appeal to my eyes. I really like nice bluing more then the current flat black look popular today.
The OP asked, "reliability of CA 44 bulldog
Have read or heard that some of the Charter Arms are better made than other ones due to dates made ect. Would like to get information on this before buying one. Any valid information welcome. Thanks"
This was linked earlier by "lee n. field" (see below) which answers the op's question. the 2nd Generation are the ones to avoid that have the worst reputation and the most problems. I like the finish of the 1st generation better than today's 3rd generation. But, some of the problems of the 1st have been corrected in the current 3rd. Buying older models sight unseen on line is very risky. I've done it twice now and both need work which starts at $49.95 + shipping costs. One common problem with the older models is that the cylinder will slide back along the ejector rod when play has developed in the crane and the cylinder will slide past the stop in the frame put there to not allow this. Newer models include an O ring to prevent that. Newer models also incorporate a better front frame pin so that it doesn't back out so easily after a long range session. They also seem to keep the front crane screw tighter. I don't know how other then I think they use a thin plastic washer. There may be more to it then that. I like the older front sights better then the new design.
I've actually had more Rugers and Smith & Wesson revolvers break or stop functioning then I have my Charter Arms. I had to keep tightening all the screws and pins on my Stratford 3" Bulldog after each range session until I sent it in for repairs for that issue and for shooting left. Now it has remained tight for multiple sessions. But I had a model 19 S&W that needed the ejector rod tightened often also. I had a Ruger Blackhawk break a transfer bar. I've not had either CAs stop functioning yet.
As has been said already, do not try to shoot hot loads in these lightweight guns. You will shoot them loose and they will go out of time. But even a S&W all steel 3" model 36 with a pinned barrel shot loose after less then 50 rounds of +P were fired. When I foolishly traded it off years ago, there was a gap showing between the frame and crane when closed. I doubt that would have happened with only std rounds. They were not +P rated in those days. From what I hear and read, that will still happen even with .357 J frames obviously rated for magnum usage when used often with magnum loads.
I currently have an older Stratford 3" Bulldog .44 spc and an older Stratford Stainless Undercover. At the range the Bulldog works flawlessly. If I put it away clean and oiled I expect it to still be reliable when I carry it. I don't try to make a pseudo magnum out of it with handloads and consequently I'm not shooting it loose to where it will fail.
Now the Undercover is another story. It will either be pawned or sent back to CA service to be tightened back up. It was also bought used and is in need of repairs. It shoots to poa perfectly with wadcutters or 158 gr loads and I'm very tempted to keep it and have it repaired. It fits my hand well with the new classic grips or the older Bulldog grips and the stainless is perfect for edc especially during the hotter months.
If I had it to do all over again, I'd probably just buy new ones and treat them properly and not abuse them with hot loads as many of the older guns may have been. I'd expect them to be reliable once they proved themselves with a few hundred rounds threw them. Remember, back in the early days of CA many in law enforcement carried these as back ups for years. They weren't range toys but were carried and qualified with along with enough range time to keep you familiar with them.
This is the link posted earlier:
"I've been researching the Charter Arms Corporation - 1st Generation revolvers for a couple years now.
This is the updated serial number info that I have - based upon around 800 data points
The earliest 1st Gen - ~0 to ~19,000 have NO barrel ADDRESS and s/n is on lower right corner on right side of frame. CA company founded in 1964, first production pieces of the Undercover model produced in 1965
Bridgeport CONN address - ~19000 to ~315,000 1967 - 1973
Stratford CONN address - ~316000 to ~1,090,000 1974 - ~1991
All marked as Charter Arms Corporation
2nd Generation - CHARCO, Ansonia Conn adress - 1,090,000 to ??? ~1991 - 1999
3rd Generation - CHARTER 2000 - Shelton Conn - 0 to where ever they are today.
From the 26 pieces in my collection (all 1st Gen) and from dozens more that I've had the opportunity to observed and fondle, I'd say that around s/n 600,000 the finish was made a lot finer - although the integrals (lock work, action) was at least as good as the earlier ones. I have or have read magazine articles that cover pretty much of the production life of the 1st Generation, and during that period (around late 1980, early 1981) it seems that CA attempted to capture more of the market by doing so, also in April of 1981, they introduced Stainless Steel revolvers into the mix, for the first time.
Some of the articles lamented that the earlier pieces, although rough finish, were rather inexpensive (~60-65% of S&W) and when CA began their "modernization" process, the finishes got better but the prices increased to about 85 to 90% of the S&W line for comparable models.
During the 2nd Generation, the CHARCO (Charter Arms COMPANY), under new management and reorganized, the quality was definitely more spotty and haphazard. I've seen CHARCO produced guns with Stratford marked barrels, obviously using up old stock.
The earliest CHARTER 2000 pieces I had the opportunity to handle (some fairly early 4 digits s/ns - were uniformly, poorly fitted and finished and had some horrendous and gritty actions.
That seems to have been rectified under MKS's (circa 2008) new leadership and the most recent pieces I've handled - s/n's in the high 100,000 range have been "decent" but not as fine in finish and action as the mid years of the 1st Generation. This is simply my studied opinion based upon experience."
Have read or heard that some of the Charter Arms are better made than other ones due to dates made ect. Would like to get information on this before buying one. Any valid information welcome. Thanks"
This was linked earlier by "lee n. field" (see below) which answers the op's question. the 2nd Generation are the ones to avoid that have the worst reputation and the most problems. I like the finish of the 1st generation better than today's 3rd generation. But, some of the problems of the 1st have been corrected in the current 3rd. Buying older models sight unseen on line is very risky. I've done it twice now and both need work which starts at $49.95 + shipping costs. One common problem with the older models is that the cylinder will slide back along the ejector rod when play has developed in the crane and the cylinder will slide past the stop in the frame put there to not allow this. Newer models include an O ring to prevent that. Newer models also incorporate a better front frame pin so that it doesn't back out so easily after a long range session. They also seem to keep the front crane screw tighter. I don't know how other then I think they use a thin plastic washer. There may be more to it then that. I like the older front sights better then the new design.
I've actually had more Rugers and Smith & Wesson revolvers break or stop functioning then I have my Charter Arms. I had to keep tightening all the screws and pins on my Stratford 3" Bulldog after each range session until I sent it in for repairs for that issue and for shooting left. Now it has remained tight for multiple sessions. But I had a model 19 S&W that needed the ejector rod tightened often also. I had a Ruger Blackhawk break a transfer bar. I've not had either CAs stop functioning yet.
As has been said already, do not try to shoot hot loads in these lightweight guns. You will shoot them loose and they will go out of time. But even a S&W all steel 3" model 36 with a pinned barrel shot loose after less then 50 rounds of +P were fired. When I foolishly traded it off years ago, there was a gap showing between the frame and crane when closed. I doubt that would have happened with only std rounds. They were not +P rated in those days. From what I hear and read, that will still happen even with .357 J frames obviously rated for magnum usage when used often with magnum loads.
I currently have an older Stratford 3" Bulldog .44 spc and an older Stratford Stainless Undercover. At the range the Bulldog works flawlessly. If I put it away clean and oiled I expect it to still be reliable when I carry it. I don't try to make a pseudo magnum out of it with handloads and consequently I'm not shooting it loose to where it will fail.
Now the Undercover is another story. It will either be pawned or sent back to CA service to be tightened back up. It was also bought used and is in need of repairs. It shoots to poa perfectly with wadcutters or 158 gr loads and I'm very tempted to keep it and have it repaired. It fits my hand well with the new classic grips or the older Bulldog grips and the stainless is perfect for edc especially during the hotter months.
If I had it to do all over again, I'd probably just buy new ones and treat them properly and not abuse them with hot loads as many of the older guns may have been. I'd expect them to be reliable once they proved themselves with a few hundred rounds threw them. Remember, back in the early days of CA many in law enforcement carried these as back ups for years. They weren't range toys but were carried and qualified with along with enough range time to keep you familiar with them.
This is the link posted earlier:
"I've been researching the Charter Arms Corporation - 1st Generation revolvers for a couple years now.
This is the updated serial number info that I have - based upon around 800 data points
The earliest 1st Gen - ~0 to ~19,000 have NO barrel ADDRESS and s/n is on lower right corner on right side of frame. CA company founded in 1964, first production pieces of the Undercover model produced in 1965
Bridgeport CONN address - ~19000 to ~315,000 1967 - 1973
Stratford CONN address - ~316000 to ~1,090,000 1974 - ~1991
All marked as Charter Arms Corporation
2nd Generation - CHARCO, Ansonia Conn adress - 1,090,000 to ??? ~1991 - 1999
3rd Generation - CHARTER 2000 - Shelton Conn - 0 to where ever they are today.
From the 26 pieces in my collection (all 1st Gen) and from dozens more that I've had the opportunity to observed and fondle, I'd say that around s/n 600,000 the finish was made a lot finer - although the integrals (lock work, action) was at least as good as the earlier ones. I have or have read magazine articles that cover pretty much of the production life of the 1st Generation, and during that period (around late 1980, early 1981) it seems that CA attempted to capture more of the market by doing so, also in April of 1981, they introduced Stainless Steel revolvers into the mix, for the first time.
Some of the articles lamented that the earlier pieces, although rough finish, were rather inexpensive (~60-65% of S&W) and when CA began their "modernization" process, the finishes got better but the prices increased to about 85 to 90% of the S&W line for comparable models.
During the 2nd Generation, the CHARCO (Charter Arms COMPANY), under new management and reorganized, the quality was definitely more spotty and haphazard. I've seen CHARCO produced guns with Stratford marked barrels, obviously using up old stock.
The earliest CHARTER 2000 pieces I had the opportunity to handle (some fairly early 4 digits s/ns - were uniformly, poorly fitted and finished and had some horrendous and gritty actions.
That seems to have been rectified under MKS's (circa 2008) new leadership and the most recent pieces I've handled - s/n's in the high 100,000 range have been "decent" but not as fine in finish and action as the mid years of the 1st Generation. This is simply my studied opinion based upon experience."
Last edited:
PocketCamera
Moderator
think its on their website or in their downloadable gun catalog. their guns are not meant for heavy use. think of "a box of 50 rounds fired over a year,,,, a cylinder at a time"
I bought one in 1982, qualified with it, and carried it at work for a couple of years. It digested a lot of cheap Federal .44 Special, and still locked up tight when I sold it.
If I find another that's local and doesn't have an outrageous price tag, I'll probably buy it to replace the .38 snub I often carry.
If I find another that's local and doesn't have an outrageous price tag, I'll probably buy it to replace the .38 snub I often carry.
shoebox1.1
New member
I want a bulldog. I have a new undercover in 38. From day one it had a lil play in cyl and after 500rds it seemed like maybe a little more than I liked. They said send it in.. we’d rather check it out so I did. Took 6 weeks with the flu going around but I got it back yesterday. Now as tight as my new colt KC. BANK VAULT tight and feels like they smoothed the trigger too. Overnighted it back to me with a curtesy phone call as well. I’m VERY pleased with this gun and the company. Buy with confidence!!!!
fire another 500 rounds and report back on the cylinder wobble.
I guess most of you wheel gun guys know that I’m
a Charter guy ... owning 9 ...
My last experience with Charter was actually the worst customer service I have ever experienced..
I purchased a brand new factory fresh Charter Bulldog ... 44spl ... when I got it home I found that the barrel was canted .. I contacted Brittany Nurse
at Charter and I then sent it in ... after 2 months of waiting ( 2 months) I emailed to check the status ...
about 8am at 4:00pm .. I got a call Brittany telling me my gun was ready ....
I received the Bulldog.. packed nice .. with a new hat !!! And a detailed hand written note explaining what was done ..
I took the gun out .. checked the barrel .. perfect
Then I opened the cylinder and noticed some of the blueing was missing at the edge of the frame ..
Then I closed the cylinder.. and it drug against the frame .. I opened it again slowly.. another drag ...
It didn’t have that problem before ... I sent it .. a very noticeable drag mark on the frame ...
I took a few pics sent to Brittany.. I figured another trip to get re-fixed ... But when I got the reply ..
It stated the technician said ... It was normal wear and tear ???
I sent a reply ... stating it is a New unfired gun .. what wear and tear ?
I took a couple more pics ... sent them
She basically said the same thing ...
I replied .. I have 8 Charters none of them drag the cylinder...
I have 10 other brands of revolvers... none of them have a cylinder that drags
I have owned Alot of revolvers over the last 40 years
none of them had a cylinder that drug the frame ...
Even RG’s !!!!
So a break down
1. 2 months
2. Inquiry about status
3. A rush job
3. Gun returned worse than when it left.
4. Communication with people , saying its normal for a new in a box handgun that after is repaired is returned with a dragging cylinder ,, Normal !!!
It seems like they “Don’t Care “
a Charter guy ... owning 9 ...
My last experience with Charter was actually the worst customer service I have ever experienced..
I purchased a brand new factory fresh Charter Bulldog ... 44spl ... when I got it home I found that the barrel was canted .. I contacted Brittany Nurse
at Charter and I then sent it in ... after 2 months of waiting ( 2 months) I emailed to check the status ...
about 8am at 4:00pm .. I got a call Brittany telling me my gun was ready ....
I received the Bulldog.. packed nice .. with a new hat !!! And a detailed hand written note explaining what was done ..
I took the gun out .. checked the barrel .. perfect
Then I opened the cylinder and noticed some of the blueing was missing at the edge of the frame ..
Then I closed the cylinder.. and it drug against the frame .. I opened it again slowly.. another drag ...
It didn’t have that problem before ... I sent it .. a very noticeable drag mark on the frame ...
I took a few pics sent to Brittany.. I figured another trip to get re-fixed ... But when I got the reply ..
It stated the technician said ... It was normal wear and tear ???
I sent a reply ... stating it is a New unfired gun .. what wear and tear ?
I took a couple more pics ... sent them
She basically said the same thing ...
I replied .. I have 8 Charters none of them drag the cylinder...
I have 10 other brands of revolvers... none of them have a cylinder that drags
I have owned Alot of revolvers over the last 40 years
none of them had a cylinder that drug the frame ...
Even RG’s !!!!
So a break down
1. 2 months
2. Inquiry about status
3. A rush job
3. Gun returned worse than when it left.
4. Communication with people , saying its normal for a new in a box handgun that after is repaired is returned with a dragging cylinder ,, Normal !!!
It seems like they “Don’t Care “
Attachments
shoebox1.1
New member
That sucks!
I posted this on one of your threads on the other forum
I emailed Mr Ecker ... we will see
I wonder if the tech bent the frame a little when he straightened the barrel and now the alignment is off. Did he take a shortcut and not use the right holding fixture?
I imagine right now they may be a bit on edge with everyone buying and having repairs made during these current problems. Maybe they get short handed from time to time on top of the rush. I was thinking about sending an older one in for repairs but now maybe I should wait or sell it off.
I imagine right now they may be a bit on edge with everyone buying and having repairs made during these current problems. Maybe they get short handed from time to time on top of the rush. I was thinking about sending an older one in for repairs but now maybe I should wait or sell it off.
1 hour after emailing Mr.Ecker directly.. I received a phone call from a technician... they are sending a label .. I was told it would be 8 weeks approximately
I sent 5 emails... I was told normal wear ( on a new unused gun )
One email to owner ..1 hour I had a phone call , label in the mail ..
1.It shouldn’t left the factory with a canted barrel
2. Shouldn’t been shipped on my dime
3. Should have been fixed in a timely manner.
4. Shipped back snail mail
5. Returned damaged ,Dragging cylinder
6.Charter denied anything was wrong with the gun , “normal for a cylinder to drag on frame”
7.I attempted to explain “its not normal “ x3
8.Forced to email owner to get new gun repaired , again from being repaired..
9.Now their is a problem with the gun , needs repair !! Eye roll
10.This time they are sending label ...( should have first time)
11.Informed 8 or more weeks to get repaired .. So it will be October.. (I bought the gun in June )
No matter how this Pans out .. Its not good ...
I hear Covid is a reason .. For their short comings
Im a Nurse in a longterm facility.. I wear Full PPE everyday.. Im tested 2 times a week for Covid .. I have had co-works sick & go home .. no pay for 2 weeks .. I have had residents test positive... in isolation and pass .. I work 10 to 14 hours a day ... as a nurse and helping in maintenance due to sick staff ... I help home school my granddaughter at night due to schools not allowing students...
Don’t make excuses
Excuses are reasons you are not doing your job
The Jury is out on Charter
I sent 5 emails... I was told normal wear ( on a new unused gun )
One email to owner ..1 hour I had a phone call , label in the mail ..
1.It shouldn’t left the factory with a canted barrel
2. Shouldn’t been shipped on my dime
3. Should have been fixed in a timely manner.
4. Shipped back snail mail
5. Returned damaged ,Dragging cylinder
6.Charter denied anything was wrong with the gun , “normal for a cylinder to drag on frame”
7.I attempted to explain “its not normal “ x3
8.Forced to email owner to get new gun repaired , again from being repaired..
9.Now their is a problem with the gun , needs repair !! Eye roll
10.This time they are sending label ...( should have first time)
11.Informed 8 or more weeks to get repaired .. So it will be October.. (I bought the gun in June )
No matter how this Pans out .. Its not good ...
I hear Covid is a reason .. For their short comings
Im a Nurse in a longterm facility.. I wear Full PPE everyday.. Im tested 2 times a week for Covid .. I have had co-works sick & go home .. no pay for 2 weeks .. I have had residents test positive... in isolation and pass .. I work 10 to 14 hours a day ... as a nurse and helping in maintenance due to sick staff ... I help home school my granddaughter at night due to schools not allowing students...
Don’t make excuses
Excuses are reasons you are not doing your job
The Jury is out on Charter