Red Dawn II

Caprian Hoek,

I agree delay is plan #1. But if you rout them, and you have the means a clean up operation to gather up all loose equipment left on the dead, finnish off or interigate the wounded ( assuming you can speak the language, or the medical facilities to keep them alive to be interogated by the home army-if it ever gets there). Make sure your troops expect no quarter and give none.


WASTe of recources? :confused: Heck this is the best use of the civilian home gaurd types...to absorb the brunt of the enemy advance, make them bleed, slow them down and possibly stop them.( very likely in this scinerio) Then the professionals can mop up.


In other words flexability and simplicty should win the day.

Remember the enemy Has no airplanes...you do.


Most of all you need a caring yet ruthles, cold, respected, calculating commander :D
 
To re-iterate:

Do not blow up bridge!
Do not defend the town!

Kill them before they reach these tactical/strategic objectives! This is one small battle in a full blown war. Save your resources.

You only have to hold the enemy back for 12 hours. Do not waste time.

You will only start a "civil war" if you try to disarm the gunowners, especially at this point. Save time, save lives and save the hostility for the invaders. Protect the 500 "vets" since they'll be usefull when the army "re-drafts" them. Realistically, the vets are more valuable than the townsfolk are. They will be the nucleus for a full battalion when the army re-equipts them. Don't antogonize the townspeople by trying to take away their guns-they're all going to be paying for their liberty in the trenches soon enough.

Take advantage of your scoped-rifles. Kill from afar. Use the talents of the hunters. Lets do some math. 300 scoped-riflemen shooting from prepared positions into massed enemy at 1000-500 yard range. OR-say we wait until 300 yards even. Assume 2 "hits" per man. Result 600 casualties to a force of 2500 combatants. This is ~25% casualties people! That's enough to make any force break and rout. If they don't run, they'll be pinned-down. Keep them there, pick them off and wait for the Army to arrive.

This is classical military doctrine for the past 200 years. If you defend in depth, you'll never let them penetrate too far into your lines.

Also, always give an enemy an "out", if they think that they can run away and save themselves, they will. But if you offer them no choices, they might start suicidal overrun attacks, and then you'll suffer casualties of your own. Let the army win the war.

If you let them into the town, you're totally screwed. Aside from destroying the place you are trying to protect. They outclass you in terms of weaponry and training here. Assault rifles are the kings here. Be prepared for 50% casualties or more on both sides, do you really want to die? Worse than that, you've let them into your town, now, they can hunker-down and defend a hardened site against the USArmy regulars. It may take days or weeks to dig them all out now. Congratulations, you've just given the enemy a stronghold/beachhead on the other side of the river, delayed a US counterattack, and killed a lot of GIs.

This ain't no movie.
 
I am not going to get into this too deep but I will make a few suggestions. I would devide the scoped rifle shooters, leveraction people and the auto rifle people by age and fisical condition. I would also devide the vets the same way. I would arm as many vets from the gun stores, private donations etc as possible. Then after using the planes to determine location and course of the enemy I would send out 20 to 30 man wolf packs of the most physically able people I had and set up under cover at numerous locations out of town with orders to shoot and fall back to the river. some wolf packs would be sent out father than others. The remaining people that could not move or march as far would set up resistance on the town side of the river. The shotgun people would be held in reserve in case the lines got broken and the enemy made it to the town. The wolf packs would not plan on crossing the river when they fell back they would flank the enemy on both sides of the road. Boats could be positions up river and down river a ways away to retreve the wolf packs later if all lines get broken and the town got invaded. Dinamite charges could be set up in the ditches of the road on the other side of bridge opposite the town, if it was possible to detinate them remotely by either the wolf packs or the resistance on town side of river. The enemy would probably take cover in the ditches there if they even made it that far, at which time the charges could be detinated. If the hunter wolf pack groups can make good use of cover and camo and can make one shot kills out to 200yds anyway, I don't believe the enemy would ever make it into town in 24 hours time. Don't open fire at 500yds on out as very few people would make hits at that range. You would give away your position and waste precious ammo. If you were lucky you might put together one wolf pack that could make hits at 300 to 400yds if you were selective and knew your people well enough to evaluate them. Then send this wolf pack out to engage the enemy first. There are lots of things that did not get adressed here but I am not going to spend anymore time on this.
 
IZZY, I'm with you. I was trying to say that committing to a full victory before the regulars even get there is a waste. It's just not necessary. Now, if your delay and harrass tactics go extremely well and you can clean up, by all means you shoiuld be ready to do so. But that's not plan 1. I'm with CWL on this.


IZZY? Hmmm. I used to know a dear, scatterbrained, but spunky old lady who went by that name. THat's not you, is it? :D
 
The bridge could be essential to somebody's counterattack plan; I would use every means at my disposal to establish liaison with the good guys and essentially get permission to do that. If given the green light, I'd blow it ASAP, getting fancy with synchronizing this with a more cohesive battle plan with so many amateurs in the ranks is just too risky.

You'll only get away with broad mission-type orders in this scenario. It is hard enough to redirect forces with real military commo; plan on yours failing utterly. Task-organize the best you can, send your teams out to do the best they can, and hope no one gets caught in a MLRS barrage as the good guys fight their "deep battle". Disrupting th enemy's momentum by forcing him to prematurely deploy should buy the necessary time. As long as a significant portion of the town is under friendly control, you will have spared the good guys from the incredible time and cost of reestablishing a foothold, and thus greatly facilitated their advance/counterattack.
 
WIth the multiple lines of resistance I described, I really expect that the enemy would never get across the bridge, and that after being ambushed on the far side they might just be smart enough to not try crossing it. The extra preparations for fallback provide for the worst case scenario, and they make sure all of your volunteers have something to do. It's better than just having them sit around and work themselves into a defeatist mood speculating.

The point of the exercise is to delay the Moronians without getting a bunch of civilian volunteers slaughtered. Since the Moronians are afoot, they have quite some time to march just to reach the bridge. All well and good; they'll be dog-tired when they get there. You probably could commit forces on the far side of the bridge and inflict huge casualties, maybe even win total victory, but you'll suffer greater losses yourself. If you hang them up at the bridge for a while, that mixed division will surely cream them on arrival.

If the Moronians find they can't cross the river and back off, then they will have a ways to go in that farmland before they get to anything else that looks like an objective (remember, they marched 12 hours through countryside). The Air Cav units will catch 'em. A few passes from helicopter gunships will do the trick.

Oh, one point I forgot about fortifying the town for the worst-case street fighting. You should position people in upstairs windows and on rooftops, with stacks of Molotov cocktails. A good tip is that if you mix the gasoline with Styrofoam till it's thick as jam, it will stick to whatever it hits. It's the poor man's Napalm.

Behind the idea of this thread is my desire to point out that every one of us who owns a firearm is a potential defender of our country and its freedoms. We are the "well-regulated militia", not the government-run National Guard, because part of the militia's job is to defend the poeple from their own government if it becomes too oppressive. Change the Moronians into the Federal Department Of Confiscating Guns, Burning Books, and Violating Rights, and where are you? On the barricades.
 
Yah except the Gov. has air support, Nuclear wepons ( tactical and Nuetron), will always have a large segment of the population supporting them, know your terrian almost as well as you ( satalites) and many other goodies you probly haven't heard of like RF transmitters to make you sick, "Agent green" (LSD) and other chemical goodies to make you crazy/sick/dead, C-4's that shoot lasers from the nose to blind you ( Really! I kid you not). Biiological warfare etc....


You and all your "freedom fighters" would be dead ducks.
 
As El Supremo Grand Jefe Warlord I would send out all of the Million Moms, HCIers, Liberals, Democrats, Gorons, and David Boies with rolled up newspapers and garden rakes to hold them off as long as possible to buy the rest of us time.
 
Corriea I'd do you one better. I'd send them over with garden rakes and newspapers and THEN I'd blow the bridge.

Only question is.. while they are still on it or after they cross? :P

Hey no one mentioned getting your hospitals alerted for triage and calling up the FD and ambulance services. You are gonna need them.

And for god's sake someone call the media to get this all on tape.

First question asked at meeting "Anyone know how to blow up a bridge?"
 
An amateur attempt at organizing

2500 doesn't sound like a battallion, that sounds like a Brigade. First thing I'd ask is how the intel was collected. For all I know that Brigade is the lead element of a whole division (8000-12000 for typical commie infantry TO&E). If the info was from some amateur, the enemy formation may be way bigger or smaller than what was reported. So it might be just a recon in force or something, but we can't count on that. Expect everyone will assume it's an all-out invasion.

More on enemy infantry formations: A unit that large WILL have support weapons. From RPK squad automatics to PK and DShK belt fed machine guns. Also 81mm mortars at the very least. Maybe 120mm mortars and towed artillery. Also, I would expect at least some of the unit to be motorized. Therefore, expect enemy recon elements on motorcycles or wheeled BRDM type vehicles. They may also have a forward detachment in some APCs to dash ahead and sieze key terrain features, in this case the bridge. Even if the unit started as completely foot-born, they might have confiscated a bunch of vehicles from civilians.

Additionally: If the unit's original beachhead had enough support, they might have fighter-bomber or helo gunships on call. What's travelling with the column may not be all they have available. They might not have much, but it only takes 1 or 2 passes from some gunships to ruin your whole day. They may be dropping cluster bombs, or even poison gas. Fun, huh?

Another problem might be refugees. Now how do we tell the difference between a stream of refugees and the enemy column in confiscated cars/trucks???

Now for friendly units:

First thing I'd to is announce everyone with firearms training or
competition experience to head to table A and tell me what you've had.
Next I'd send groups to collect guns and ammunition from gun stores. A problem I'd see is I haven't seen stores that carry enough to supply 800+ people with enough rifle ammo to sustain a long fight.

Why a long fight? I know the US Army said they will be here in 24 hours. However, feces happen in war. General Sad Sack may decide to send the division elsewhere, or the reinforcements are only a mechanized company (about 200 men) instead of a whole division (upwards of 20,000 in a US heavy division). "Relief in 24 hours" may stretch into 36, or 48, or 72, or never. The thing that sounds fishy is sending one US heavy division to tackle an enemy brigade. Either it's a lot more than a brigade that's coming my way or a lot less than a US division as reinforcements.

OK, unit breakdown:
Assemble groups of fit and aggressive groups of 20 in 4WD vehicles to dash ahead and harass the enemy and keep us informed of their advance. Get some HAM radio operators in each group. Get a good military vet or 2 in charge of each group.

Assemble groups of 50 of the lesser fit/lesser trained as more static defense types for holding the town and bridge.

Get a small group to count how many headed over the river and if/when all are back on the friendly side.

Find out if there are any belt-fed heavy weapons in private ownership and get them in some dug-in gun pits covering the bridge approaches. Also, get some weapon pits dug with whatever tripod mounted whatsit inside them that looks like a weapon as a dummy firing position. More on this later.

Get a group of folks to wire the bridge for demolition ASAP. Get some of the groups of 50 to defend against enemy advance attack parties.

Get medical facilities ready for incoming casualties. Also an alternate location outside town. Warn the med people if the enemy arrives, they will probably shoot all the wounded and press-gang the medical people into treating the enemy wounded, so they'd better be ready to clear out fast.

Get the construction company started digging trenches and embankments to hold the bridge area. Also have them pile a roadblock on the far and near sides of the bridge in case the demolition fails.

Get some welding equipment to pre-cut some of the bridge spans to make the demolition easier. Target a demolition time of 4 hours from now.

Keep some mobile groups in 4WD vehicles as a reserve, and some others spread out to warn of enemy approach. ALL directions, not just the far side of the river.

Get some of the private pilots up keeping tabs on the enemy location and keep them in contact with the 4WD harassment groups. Tell them to watch out for SAM-7 and other shoulder launched surface to air missiles.

Send the boats out to either bring back or destroy every boat on the river within 30 miles.

Send some crop dusters to spray the enemy column with pesticide. Tell the pilots to make ONE pass each. I don't think this will really kill any of them. My intention is to make them suit up in gas masks which will really slow them down. A combination of the crop-duster pass and an ambush by one of the 4WD groups should create some good confusion. If they respond
aggressively, we know we are dealing with a first rate unit. If it is a first rate unit, I'm telling all units to pull back to the friendly side and blow the bridge.

Some aggressive units may be best left on the far side with the option of retreating via boat pickup. I'd leave this to the small group commanders' discretion. I'd love to think we have a bunch of great guerrillas in the tradition of Francis Marion but my experience is just finding a good shooter is at least a 1 out of 10 shot, so I might have at most 100 effective people. More likely 20-30.

Warn everyone if the worst comes to worst, the enemy will have assault boats, the bridge won't blow up, and we'll eat a heavy preparatory fire by helo gunships, fighter-bombers, and artillery (REAL arty, I mean like 122mm and 152mm howitzers) before the ground attack comes. Expect at least 50% casualties from the prep barrage. Get some code words pre-planned to retreat to specific rally points beyond the town in case we can't hold them.

That's a good start for Colonel Edmund's Irregulars. I would really expect most of the militia to flee after a hard barrage and ground assault, I hate to say. A clever assault might cause an irreversible panic. For all I know a heliborne assault is a few minutes away.

Edmund
 
About the dummy firing positions

There isn't much this group can do against an air attack by fighter-bombers or gunships except make a bunch of fake fighting positions and hope they use up more of their payloads on them first.

Edmund
 
Let me rephrase my first reply...

Blow the bridge.

Burn the town.

Leave Edmund on the far side to delay advance of enemy.

Just kiddin'. :p So, Edmund, would I get to carry your AR while you used your Remington to harry the invaders, or would you choose one of your M1A's? :D
 
Going hunting with Spectre

Unfortunately, as "militia Colonel" my best place would not be out popping redcoats, but in a command center directing the action and analyzing incoming reports. Nuts, I'd have to figure out some not-so-obvious place to have my CP. Hope I guess right or an enemy barrage will be my wake up call. :eek:

...but in a situation like that, if I wasn't the CO, I'd love to get out there with my Remington and start the bodycount!! :D

Edmund
 
Hmph. You're making it hard on me, buddy. Then, I'd have to choose between being your bodyguard, and being out taking heads! ;)

Every Your Most Obedient Servant...

(just bought The Patriot today, and watched half; gosh, I love that movie!)
 
I wonder...

what all these "plans", suggestions, etc. (including mine) would look like if (re 2 Amend) folks were trained "in the arms of the times" OR/AND had the local area National Guard armory available to them.

What then would these "scenario" plans be?

(Now, with this insertion, this thread could reach record size/participation.)
 
Edmund,

I hate to disagree about where you should be during the battle, but I must. You and Spectre will get plenty of chances to shoot "Redcoats". You need to lead from the front. This will be especially important since you are dealing with untrained "militia" troops.

Your untrained and barely disciplined units will need stalwart examples such as Spectre and yourself to bolster their morale once the battle starts. They are going to see some very ugly things and even though they will be fighting for their homes, you need to remember that most of our population has never known real life threatening hardship. Good leadership will make up for many of the more sophisticated weapons your forces lack. If the troops think that their Colonel is in a bunker somewhere listening to contact reports on the FRS radios, they will be more likely to bolt when the going gets really tough. On the other hand, the sight of their Colonel on the front, sharing the danger and the hardship, and counting coup on the enemy, it will make it mentally harder for them to run. They say that General Patton never went back from the front in a jeep. He would ride to the front so the soldiers could see him going to the front, but he was always picked up in a light aircraft and flown to the rear so his soldiers never saw him "retreating".

You can study all the tactics, stategy and logistics you want, but when the time comes and the bullets are cracking overhead, and shrapnel from VT fused rounds is raining down, and no sane man would leave cover, you have to be able to stand up and yell FOLLOW ME!!!!!!!

Jeff
 
Y'all're making this was too difficult.

Put up a couple "road closed" signs, back it up with another few "road guards," replete in blaze orange safety vests & those STOP/SLOW reversible signs - maybe a "form one lane" sign. Have a few folks just stand around with shovels to make it look realistic.

Worse case, some biddy from the local guvmint office can harry them with inane questions & ask 'em to fill out lots of forms - in triplicate. Besides, where's your invasion permit?

------

A series of 5-gallon gas cans filled with aforementioned styrofoam thickener, coupla sticks of 80% on one side & about an inch worth of assorted nuts/bolts on the other (lay the can on its side, squirt a coupla caulk tubes worth of silicone/liquid nails/whatever & pour on the nuts) - wrap the whole thing in duct tape. Electrical-primed & rig for detonation with radio controlled gear.
1/2 a$$, poor man's claymore. Set 'em in elongated concentric circles along advance route. Blow alernating 1/3 inner circle when troops are in range. After the initial effect & they pop back up again, blow the remaining inner 1/3 circle. Same same for those backing out or moving forward - your next series of 1/3s. Any moving to the woods outside the road area, crank off the next outer circle by 1/2s.

Doubtful dynamite will bring down any modern bridge. Prolly need shaped charge to cut steel beams. You don't have to blow it anyway - only kill anybody on it. Besides, a back hoe could tear out huge sections of roadway making it all but impassable - at least put 'em on foot .... Wouldn't "blow the bridge" until best effect & max troops on it, without letting any come across.

For "cocktails," duct tape railroad flare (fusee) to side of bottle. Built in striker/igniter & would suck if your Bic didn't flick.

In any event, if they want to run away - let 'em. That's for later.

Far as the crop dusters go, think I'd spray 'em w/gasoline & pitch out a few lit RR flares ....
 
Hate to go squirrelly on this, labgrade...

but if we're gonna put up road closed signs as a tactic, then maybe we better put up "No Shooting" signs on the trees and a big bill board on bridge approach stating something like:

"According to legislated state law the town council of XYZville is empowered, and accordingly has acted to, ban all non-resident owned firearms".

This is a gun free zone. Turn in all firearms to the Sheriff station located at the bridge-head.

Who knows? Might work.
 
"Follow me!"

Jeff White, you are correct. The militia would need strong visible leadership from the front.

I'd prefer to say "Do what I do!" but you get the idea.
Spectre, we WILL get plenty of opportunities to pop redcoats.

Nuts, nobody commented on my take on the enemy?

Edmund
 
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