Recoil Why fight it?

I wasn't trying to start a debate. just stating that largerr frames soak up more of the recoil. I used to think packing the most power in a small package was cool but after some stinging hands I decided WHY? I keep the ammo in appropriate frame sizes and enjoy shooting much more. I shoot those 125 gr Hornidays in my Model 36 and find them almost plesant to fire, For preformance's sake I also use them as anti-personell ammo in the HB Model 10. Hey they work like they're supposed to! I do a lot of shooting of 158 gr thru the Model 10 also it's favorite load.
If I had a .44 I'd want a large frame and at least a 4" bbl just to soak recoil up.
Magnums are great rounds and it takes pratice to master them. There's no use hindering yourself by shooting too small of a gun while learning.
Sorry if I confused anyone.
BPDave
 
Kickin' it

I wasn't trying to start a debate. just stating that largerr frames soak up more of the recoil.
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That's the popular belief, but in actuality recoil is what it is...and what it is...is acceleration. The momentums on both sides of an action/reaction event are equal.

Another way: The momentum of the reactive mass is the same as the momentum of the active mass. The gun's momentum is equal to the bullet's.

That's the simplified version and applies to fixed breech arms, like revolvers and bolt-action rifles. When autoloaders are factored in, it changes because the moving breechblock and barrel are the gun. The frame/receiver is the gun mount. i.e. with an autopistol, the slide's momentum is equal to the bullet's momentum.

But I digress...

Back to revolvers.

What the heavier...more massive...frame does is accelerate more slowly, which translates to less sting and allows the gun mount...your hand...to further slow it down more efficiently after the recoil ends.

Recoil is the reaction side of an action/reaction event. It's only in effect for a very brief instant...while the bullet is being accelerated. Once the bullet is gone, recoil is over, and any movement of the gun and the bullet beyond that is on momentum.
 
Dragline45 - "When I carried a .357 snub I used to shoot and carry full power loads. Then I smartened up and started carrying .38 +p's. It's just my opinion, but the benefit you gain from .357 over .38+p in a short barreled revolver doe's not make up for the excessive recoil, muzzle blast, and flash. I can get back on target much quicker with .38's in a snub than .357, and until you fired off a .357 snub with full power loads with no hearing protection, you have no idea how loud that sucker really is. The constant ringing in my left ear can attest to that."
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Dragline and I think alike. Particularly in terms of muzzle blast. Most people have no idea how incredibly loud a full-house 357 round through a short barrel is. It's literally deafening over the entire audible spectrum - beyond comparison to say, a 40 or 45.

High-end 38+P's deliver sufficient defense performance, without all the often overlooked drawbacks (sound, flash, recoil, recovery time, and post-target damage). Just sayin'
 
Just came back from a range where I went through about 200 rounds of .22LR in 6' revolver and a few dozens of 38Spl out of 1.87" aluminum framed snub. Shooting snub and feeling the kick was the highlight of the day. Too much fun! :D
 
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Most people probably can handle the recoil and hopefully shoot the first round okay. But follow-up shots are harder for anybody if the gun kicks more let alone what it would be like for someone with little experience. And that's more the issue - sure you can get someone a nice light, concealable snub-nose but will they want to practice with it enough to be able to get used to the trigger and everything else that goes with shooting well? If someone doesn't have much experience a light-weight snub-nose won't always be the one they will want to practice with when it's the one they will have to practice more with - sort of a catch-22. And that's not even with a 357 - which I shoot out of heavier snub-noses (EAA Windicator and Taurus 617) easier than a regular 38 out of a 642, the extra weight really does help. Plus the fact that the 357 leaves the barrel so much faster it's over before your hand knows it. Lots of noise and fireworks but the recoil isn't an issue.
 
If I can put a normal LRN .38Spl in someone's head at the same time he puts his .44Mag into my shoulder who's better off?
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Straw man argument...assumes facts not in evidence. At best, you may be working to assume that your follow up shot will be more accurate...but that does not apply to the first shot.

And unless it is you who is commencing hostilities, it is unrealistic to assume that your first shot will be better than his.

How about if your adversary can put a .44Mag in your head at the same time that you put a .38Spl into his shoulder?

How about if you each put one round of your respective ammo into one another's shoulder?

You lose either way, and your assumption that it will work out as in your assumption has no bass in fact.

For that reason I think that if one carries a light small frame revolver they should practice and carry basic .38Spl with the least kick and worry more about their aiming under stress than the velocity of the bullet.
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(And that un-educated statement comes from someone who never carried and doesn't plan to, yea!)
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There...fixed it for you.
 
orionengnr, sounds like you've been in a lot of gun fights, I guess I'll have to change my views now. Your opinion is obviously stronger than mine. Mine comes from being on the range weekly, practicing, and observing a whole bunch of people with big guns, who can hardly hit the paper from 25FT. :D

Yes, and that use of "bold" font makes me shivering like a leaf too. ;)
 
and observing a whole bunch of people with big guns, who can hardly hit the paper from 25FT.
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Doesn't even have to be a big gun :) . The other day I witnessed a man shooting a older (1940s era) fixed sight little S&W .38 from rest and while he hit the paper (10Y), they are all 4" or more left and all over. He was 'complaining' how the gun didn't shoot and maybe that's why the guy sold it to him. I couldn't stand the complaining any longer.... , so I asked if I could shoot it. He said you bet! So I proceeded to shoot a nice tight group (high, but horizontal was perfect) you could cover with a quarter off hand at 10Y. Very nice SA trigger pull on it too.... That ... was that... and I don't consider myself an expert by any means. So know what you mean!

Recoil all depends on person and practice. My wife, for example, likes the .22 and .38 and will not shoot any of my big bores. I like the .45 Colt with a 250g moving 900fps as my shoot all day load. But I don't like the same moving 1300fps... And trying to hit something 'quickly' for a follow-up with a lot of recoil is almost if not impossible for me.
 
Orion Engineer

Your logic is correct and valid. I don't know if you've been in a gunfight, but it doesn't matter.
 
Since firing a .357 magnum vs a 38 special isn't a significant recoil problem for me, I carry the .357s for protection. I shoot the .38s because they're cheaper. Usually I'll fire a few .357 magnum rounds at the end of the day for the heck of it. The muzzle flash and report from the 2" barrel firing the magnums is excessive and I figure this is good. I'm just that much more intimidating in a practical defense situation and I'm not significantly worse off in my efficiency.
 
The muzzle flash and report from the 2" barrel firing the magnums is excessive and I figure this is good. I'm just that much more intimidating in a practical defense situation and I'm not significantly worse off in my efficiency.
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Hmm, I'd rather be "effective" than "intimidating." Often, those willing to do harm to you are too crazy to be intimidated.

My nightstand piece is a 686+ 3" loaded with 38+P Speer 135g GDHP "Short Barrel" (fast, low-flash powder used) ammo. In a practical defense situation, I want to be able to recover from recoil quickly and not be blinded by flash, and not have gone deaf from excessive report.

Yeah, I'll gladly give up some hitting thrust to have low flash, low recoil, low report. Just my opinion.
 
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Yes, that's what I'm saying. To me, the recovery from the flash, recoil, and report from a .357 is more than I care to endure in an in-home defensive situation. The Speer GDHP SB 38's strike that balance I am looking for.

It's a personal preference thing, I'm sure.
 
Lot's of choices and scenarios to ponder, it's personal preference. Practice and get proficient and comfortable with what you choose. I like the snap of standard pressure .38's in a 2" snub myself. In the Blackhawk, I like the .357 maggies. There are a bazillion differing opinions on the ideal carry gun or nightstand gun, so go with what you feel is right.
 
I pack a Chiappa Rhino. The barrel is mounted on the bottom of the cylinder. Because of this there's basically no muzzle flip. With a .357 magnum, you only feel more push back than a .38. It goes back on target just as fast.
 
As long as you can stay consistent with aim, shoot whatever you want, carry whatever you want. But if the .357 in your lightweight gun makes it hard to hit anything, it's not worth it. Step up a frame size or down to 38 special.
 
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