Hi, I am kinda new here, but I do have a couple of thoughts about this topic.
First; those of you who have been saying what the guy with the bike "should" have done are not addressing the issue. The issue is what actually took place, not what didn't. By saying he "should" have done certain things is Monday morning quarterbacking, and this is what has gotten us so many of the laws and regulations we complain about.
Bureacrats, politicians, lawyers, even juries, sit in comfortable rooms and decide that a certain action "should" have been different.
If the bike gentleman could do it over (and that is what "should" really means) chances are he would have simply stayed home. By saying he "should" have ridden away, "should" have given up the bike, etc, you are suggesting that what happened wasn't real.
I suspect he spends time thinking on what he "should" or "could" have done differently, but the truth is he did what he did. In my opinion he did the best he could with the resources and ablities he had at the time. He may do differently next time, but that is only because he has different resources (and experiences) and ablilities than he had.
This, in my opinion is also an issue that ManyToys brings to the discussion. His father, a cop, killed a perp while defending himself. He did what he did based on the resources and abilities he had at the time. Nothing more nothing less.
The fact that he suffered guilt for many years afterward is a separate issue. If he (the father) were able to go back and do it over, in order to avoid years of guilt, would he choose not to shoot the BG? Would he choose to give up his life in order not to take another? What would he choose to do differently? I don't know.. and really it isn't pertinent because what happened is exactly what happened.
What happened afterward (the guilt) is the main ingredient in PTSD and there are a number of ways of treating that condition. Again using the resources and abilities one has at any given time, a choice will be made to treat or not treat such a condition.
And simply because someone (in this case a father) suffers emotional distress because of an action he has taken, is not sufficient reason some other person (a son?) need suffer the same way under similar circumstances.
My father killed a number of Germans in Europe in 1944/45. Some of them were boys in the Hitler Youth. He believed at the time that they were intending to kill him (some rather more directly than others) so he chose to defend his own life. Later in Korea he acted similarly with North Koreans and Chinese being the ethnic description of the enemy.
To the best of my recollection he never had trouble sleeping at night because of the choices he made back then. He did say he would have preferred not to have fought boys, but those boys were very enthusiastically trying to kill him, so he did what he had to do.
I personally never had to take another life, but I have had guns pointed at me, and even fired at me. In the latter case (it only happened this one time) I was completely prepared to take the shooter's life, but luckily for me (though mostly for him) he decided to cease and desist when I responded to him with superior firepower, from superior cover.
When I first fired back, he was behind cover, so I was not able to hit him, but had I been able, I have no doubt I would have gone for a killing shot. When he did lay down his weapon, I chose not to take fatal action, though a part of me remained furious (and scared) and I had a bit of a struggle in not doing so.
Now, some might say "Well, you didn't take another life, so you can't really feel guilt about it." and you would be right. I don't feel guilt for taking his life because I didn't actually take it. On the other hand, I was there and I know that I was completely prepared to shoot to kill.
And I know that even if I had had some moments of regret, remorse, or even guilt, it would not have lasted a lifetime.
I believe I would have spent some time wondering if I could have done anything different, and wishing I had stayed home. In fact, even without killing him, I explored what I might have done differently, and without a doubt, for at time, wished I had not gone out that day!
Again, the bottom line is I was there, I made the choices I made based on the situation, and on the resources and abilities I had at the time. Nothing is going to change that.
So, I open the floor to those who would say what I "should" have done. Even feef free to comment on what you think my dad "should" have done, if you wish to go there.
All I am saying is that people do what they do because THEY are in the situation. They act, react, and judge themselves. And for the rest of us to do anything other than learn from it, can be at the very least, a missed educational opportunity, at worst disrespetful, or judgmental and condemning of them.
First; those of you who have been saying what the guy with the bike "should" have done are not addressing the issue. The issue is what actually took place, not what didn't. By saying he "should" have done certain things is Monday morning quarterbacking, and this is what has gotten us so many of the laws and regulations we complain about.
Bureacrats, politicians, lawyers, even juries, sit in comfortable rooms and decide that a certain action "should" have been different.
If the bike gentleman could do it over (and that is what "should" really means) chances are he would have simply stayed home. By saying he "should" have ridden away, "should" have given up the bike, etc, you are suggesting that what happened wasn't real.
I suspect he spends time thinking on what he "should" or "could" have done differently, but the truth is he did what he did. In my opinion he did the best he could with the resources and ablities he had at the time. He may do differently next time, but that is only because he has different resources (and experiences) and ablilities than he had.
This, in my opinion is also an issue that ManyToys brings to the discussion. His father, a cop, killed a perp while defending himself. He did what he did based on the resources and abilities he had at the time. Nothing more nothing less.
The fact that he suffered guilt for many years afterward is a separate issue. If he (the father) were able to go back and do it over, in order to avoid years of guilt, would he choose not to shoot the BG? Would he choose to give up his life in order not to take another? What would he choose to do differently? I don't know.. and really it isn't pertinent because what happened is exactly what happened.
What happened afterward (the guilt) is the main ingredient in PTSD and there are a number of ways of treating that condition. Again using the resources and abilities one has at any given time, a choice will be made to treat or not treat such a condition.
And simply because someone (in this case a father) suffers emotional distress because of an action he has taken, is not sufficient reason some other person (a son?) need suffer the same way under similar circumstances.
My father killed a number of Germans in Europe in 1944/45. Some of them were boys in the Hitler Youth. He believed at the time that they were intending to kill him (some rather more directly than others) so he chose to defend his own life. Later in Korea he acted similarly with North Koreans and Chinese being the ethnic description of the enemy.
To the best of my recollection he never had trouble sleeping at night because of the choices he made back then. He did say he would have preferred not to have fought boys, but those boys were very enthusiastically trying to kill him, so he did what he had to do.
I personally never had to take another life, but I have had guns pointed at me, and even fired at me. In the latter case (it only happened this one time) I was completely prepared to take the shooter's life, but luckily for me (though mostly for him) he decided to cease and desist when I responded to him with superior firepower, from superior cover.
When I first fired back, he was behind cover, so I was not able to hit him, but had I been able, I have no doubt I would have gone for a killing shot. When he did lay down his weapon, I chose not to take fatal action, though a part of me remained furious (and scared) and I had a bit of a struggle in not doing so.
Now, some might say "Well, you didn't take another life, so you can't really feel guilt about it." and you would be right. I don't feel guilt for taking his life because I didn't actually take it. On the other hand, I was there and I know that I was completely prepared to shoot to kill.
And I know that even if I had had some moments of regret, remorse, or even guilt, it would not have lasted a lifetime.
I believe I would have spent some time wondering if I could have done anything different, and wishing I had stayed home. In fact, even without killing him, I explored what I might have done differently, and without a doubt, for at time, wished I had not gone out that day!
Again, the bottom line is I was there, I made the choices I made based on the situation, and on the resources and abilities I had at the time. Nothing is going to change that.
So, I open the floor to those who would say what I "should" have done. Even feef free to comment on what you think my dad "should" have done, if you wish to go there.
All I am saying is that people do what they do because THEY are in the situation. They act, react, and judge themselves. And for the rest of us to do anything other than learn from it, can be at the very least, a missed educational opportunity, at worst disrespetful, or judgmental and condemning of them.
