Reason for Obama success and gun control.

J

jkkimberfan

New member
I am conservative, support gun rights, and believe in the private sector and market forces. But greedy Corporations are the root cause of the growing socialism in America and Obama's growing socialist base. Some say of corporations; "Hey, they earned it, they can spend their money however they want". To these people, I say, let the Corporations stay on this track and America will soon be a socialist country with gun bans in place just like Canada, Australia, Latin America, Europe and most of Asia.

Corporations ARE greedy and leading their own destruction. Many Corporations are enjoying record profits and not sharing the wealth. Instead, they choose to pay their CEO's and managers mega salaries, bonuses, and retirement packages, while paying the regular employees low salaries with fewer benefits, while at the same time hiding much of their money in overseas tax shelters. Yes, they pay a lot of taxes and provide a lot of jobs, but overall, it's too little. The average American is working more and harder than ever, with little to show for it.

Even if you did everything you were supposed to, graduated from college and have a decent paying job, chances are, you are still struggling, living paycheck to paycheck, have debt and have little to no savings. Corporations waste millions and billions on their CEO and upper managers. The rest of their employees get meager salaries and benefits. As job security diminishes, socialism grows, all so the Corporation can operate more efficiently, prop up the stock price, so the CEO and upper managers can reap extra billions in salary, bonus and retirement packages.

Corporations lay off tens of thousands, the shareholders get a few extra dollars in their stock portfolio, the CEO and upper managers get super rich, all at the expense of the vast majority of the employees. Corporations continue to make BILLIONS and most workers are paid meager salaries in an ever increasing expensive economy. They can't walk away for better pay, since supposeable "Good paying" jobs are harder to come by.

Housing, food, gas, transportation, clothing, etc. costs are skyrocketing. Socialist gov't policies are becoming more and more appealing. Hillary Clinton said that she would take away the Oil Corporations profits and reinvest it in gov't programs (ie: redistribute this wealth). Obama has said he will double the Capital Gains tax. The message of Obama and his allies in gov't is one of sharing the wealth (socialism), if Corporations are not willing to share their wealth with their employees more fairly, the gov't will step in and do it for them. If Corporations will not provide health care to their employees, the gov't will step in and provide at, of course it will cost more in corporate taxes and closed off shore loopholes.

Most Americans believe the 2nd Amendment means they have the right to keep and bear arms. But in order for socialism to work, the masses must be disarmed. Many of these Americans are willing to trade their rights (gun rights) for more gov't programs, to include socialized medicine. The Socialists will disarm the people, especially since they will need to enforce future Obama 50% income tax rates.

Most of the world has already gone socialist, due to decades of poor working conditions and low wages. Eventually, there will be no place these corporations can hide their BILLIONS, nor pay off politicians. Populist politicians such as Obama are winning out. No one person (CEO, etc.) is worth such ridiculous compensations, no matter how talented they are. Corporate boards continue to vote for these ridiculously high CEO and manager salaries at the expense of the rest of their employees, but to their own peril.

Corporations need to wise up and share their profits with all of their employees, from the security guard to the CEO. All employees in a corporation are important and necessary, from the mail clerk to the CEO. Those who take on more responsibility and work harder in the Corporation should be rewarded with higher salaries, but not, 10X, 100X or 1,000X. If conservatives do not want socialism to overtake America, they too better speak out against these greedy Corporations, before it's too late, and America goes socialist, like it already has in the rest of the world.
 
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First you made some good points but please use paragraphs.

Second to you think 90% of the people that say they are voting for Osama know what a capital gain tax is? NO.
You are overanalyzing it.
It's cool to be black. The uppity whites feel guilt, their kids feel power by wigging and rapping, the blacks feel like it's their time.
That group versus the conservative whites. Battle royal for our country. That's the reason for Obama's success.
 
The elite left have a minority ladder each "step" they can elect or appoint seems to validate their very existences, ideas , however your correct corporate greed is moving our working class in the direction of socialism perhaps even to communism, the current path of outsourcing, loss of manufacturing,importing of slave labor moves us down that road.
 
If what you describe is socialism then I would interpret the flip-side of your argument as fascism. You seem to be more sided with the latter. The only point you are trying affect goes against their core belief; "We're in control we dominate" why would they 'share'? That's what the working class gives up on their side. They get to work for low wages, no labor unions, un-safe working conditions, and a job for life with no chance of advancement unless you know the bosses.
 
tl;dr: (paraphrase)
Corporations are evil, particularly big ones; Obama promises to fix this through more regulation of companies (socialism), but socialism requires disarmament, which many Americans don't have a problem with. Therefore, corporations need to reform themselves to save us from socialism and lost gun rights.
 
Close, so close, but still a miss

The overwhelming majority of Americans who do not work for themselves work for some kind of corporation. Corporations are not evil. They cannot be evil. They are nothing more than a legal framework for conducting business. It is the people in the corporations who decide what they do, and how. And by and large what they do is whatever they think will increase their personal wealth, usually (but not always) by increasing the wealth of the corporations.

Yes, the people at the top get the big bucks and the people at the bottom get squat, but when in the history of the world has this ever been any different? Communism claimed to be, but were not. They only real difference with the communists is that they didn't measure their wealth in money, like capitalists, the simply skipped the money step and went for raw power.

The whole point to those at the top getting the cream and those one the bottom barely getting by is to encourage those on the bottom to move up. While far from perfect, our system both allows and encourages this, if the individuals can perform. Socialism/fascism/communism diminishes or outright prevents upward mobility of the lower class, except in certain narrow channels such as military or political "service to the state".

Socialism relys on crippling taxes, and civilian disarmament. Why is that, I wonder? If is is such a good thing, why does it not stand on its own merit? High tax rates, because by removing the possiblity of keeping a significant portion of any large amount of money you make, the remove the incentive to make a large amount of money. Without people making large amounts of money, they have to tax at high rates. It is virtually a closed loop. And civilian disarmament for two basic reasons. 1) to keep the population dependant on govt forces for their protection, and 2) to keep the people from being to do anything effective should they become dissatisfied with the bread and circuses supplied by the socialist leadership.

Face it, there is as certain percentage of mankind who will gladly accept many restictions on their rights and actions for the promise of being cared for. When this is imposed on people against their will, we call it slavery. When people impose it on themselves, we call it socialism.
 
This "evil nasty corporation" thread wherein all the workers get screwed is so much malarkey.

Workers in the US are among the highest compensated in the world. Were it not for those "evil" corporations, they would all be subsistence farmers, at best. Our health care system is among the best in the world, and virtually all of the people living here, legally OR NOT, have access to it. Now, if they would rather make payments on a new car or a flat-screen TV, rather than health insurance premiums, then that is a different story

Sheesh.........
 
I guess I just have a hard time with the whole argument. I hocked everything I owned just to get enough money and credit to start a homebuilding business in Tucson. If I failed, I would have lost EVERYTHING.. Why did I do it? It certainly wasn't because I wanted to become an Employer of people, that is simply an offshoot of what you must do to create a business.
I had Unions try to get into my business by talking to my Employees and Organizing them for better wages etc. You know what happened? My men told them to skate as I was already paying them far more than the Union was going to see they got. People create Businesses for one simple reason... THEY want to make the money themselves too, increase THEIR own personal wealth.
Along the way, they employ others to assist in the work, every employee AGREES to the wage offered, no one is forced to work for less than they want. If the going wage is LESS than you want, look elsewhere or get a better education.
I hear all the moaning about Companies moving off shore, why the hell do you think they do it? They have an obligation to the Stockholders to increase THEIR wealth, otherwise the Stock Market would collapse and I assume you know what would happen then.
Additional Taxing Companies and Corporations will simply increase them moving to friendlier areas to make their money along with the associated loss of employment and opportunity we will feel.
Greedy Corporations??? HA,, The Democrats and those complaining are every bit as greedy.
We cannot TAX ourselves out of the current problems, Taxes will ONLY serve to make things worse. I know it, I would hope that soon you would come to realize it too
 
Well it is nice to see some well educated folks here.
But.... this thread was about obama and his socialist backing and the reasons for his success..... And then we got into unions and fascism and evil corporations and wages.
Any of you think the average joe smoe or tywanna cares or even knows what this crap means? NO.

He is sucessful for exactly the reasons I mentioned, he is black and promises change. period.
reminds me of the oj trial, when commentators went over evidence by evidence and timelines and who made a point on this day or who lost on that day and chromosome dna counts and bindles being wet. At the end of the day, he walked because he was black, being tried by a black jury.

If successful in being elected, that will be the exact same reason his lever is pulled. Not democratic philosophy. You guys are going wayyyyy too deep to explain his popularity.
 
But.... this thread was about obama and his socialist backing and the reasons for his success..... And then we got into unions and fascism and evil corporations and wages.
Click to expand...

In a roundabout way it all comes together. Obama likes to tell the masses how he is going to tax those evil corporations until they bleed so that he can redistribute all of those "excessive profits" to those who are less fortunate. His minions just love to hear it.........
 
I, for one, haven't heard any CHANGE by Obama that made any sense, unless you were on welfare. Then it makes a great deal of sense,,, more money for me.....Damn. do I sound greedy like corporations?
Everyone wants a free ride, Barry Huesein, promises to punish Corps and give it to you.. ya, like I beleive it or that it could work.
 
It's a moral choice.

If you think paying one CEO and upper management hundreds of MILLIONS per year, plus MILLIONS in bonuses, private jets, limo's, free health care, etc. while the rest of the 99% of their employees get peanuts or laid off is justifiable, then you are morally bankrupt.

Instead, it would wise for the corp. board members to stop laying off employees and instead cut their CEO and management pay and hire more employees at higher salaries and benefits. This would be healthier for America and better for the corporation in the long run. The federal and state governments cannot afford to hire any more employees. The corporations need to reform their compensation policies and step up.

Hollyweird is also morally bankrupt, when it pays actors $20 MILLION for acting in a movie. Athletes get paid $50 MILLION per year? Many elderly people (voters) can't pay for their medical prescriptions. Working families (voters) are having a hard time buying groceries and filling up their gas tanks.

Believe me, I am no liberal, FAR from it, but it's gotten so out of scale. If I can see this coming, I can only imagine how rabid the left is? Whatever happened to caring for fellow Americans? How do these super rich sleep at night, in their mansions, private jets, yachts?, thinking that they are so special that they deserve so much, while so many have so little?

The current situation will not go on forever, there is a revolution brewing and I think Obama has tapped into it. Obama is going to trounce McCain, it may be the biggest landslide in American history.

Say goodbye to many of our rights, say hello to socialism and goodbye to your gun rights. We will owe our thanks to these giant mega corporation's greed and short sightedness.
 
What a CEO get paid is between the Board and the Stockholders. You don't get a vote unless you buy some stock in the Company. If you don't buy the stock, you really don't have any reason or right to complain just because some CEO makes Millions as his paycheck.
You know, you and your friends could just quit buying what these Evil Corps sell, you know, teach them a lesson, maybe fold the the Bastids up...
You know the reason I get steamed up about Sport players, Actors and CEO's making their Millions of dollars?........I am jealous and pizzed that I don't make the same in my business. It just isn't right, I deserve the money.... Geee.. sounds just like a welfare recipient doesn't it..
 
Think I am exaggerating or off base?

This is the top Yahoo story from the Associated Press as of 11 minutes ago:

Americans' unhappy birthday: 'Too much wrong'


By PAULINE ARRILLAGA, AP National Writer 11 minutes ago

Even folks in the Optimist Club are having a tough time toeing an upbeat line these days. Eighteen members of the volunteer organization's Gilbert, Ariz., chapter have gathered, a few days before this nation's 232nd birthday, to focus on the positive: Their book drive for schoolchildren and an Independence Day project to place American flags along the streets of one neighborhood.

They beam through the Pledge of Allegiance, applaud each other's good news — a house that recently sold despite Arizona's down market, and one member's valiant battle with cancer. "I didn't die," she says as the others cheer.

But then talk turns to the state of the Union, and the Optimists become decidedly bleak.

They use words such as "terrified," "disgusted" and "scary" to describe what one calls "this mess" we Americans find ourselves in. Then comes the list of problems constituting the mess: a protracted war, $4-a-gallon gas, soaring food prices, uncertainty about jobs, an erratic stock market, a tougher housing market, and so on and so forth.

One member's son is serving his second tour in Iraq. Another speaks of a daughter who's lost her job in the mortgage industry and a son in construction whose salary was slashed. Still another mentions a friend who can barely afford gas.

Joanne Kontak, 60, an elementary school lunch aide inducted just this day as an Optimist, sums things up like this: "There's just entirely too much wrong right now."

Happy birthday, America? This year, we're not so sure.

The nation's psyche is battered and bruised, the sense of pessimism palpable. Young or old, Republican or Democrat, economically stable or struggling, Americans are questioning where they are and where they are going. And they wonder who or what might ride to their rescue.

These are more than mere gripes, but rather an expression of fears — concerns reflected not only in the many recent polls that show consumer confidence plummeting, personal happiness waning and more folks worrying that the country is headed in the wrong direction, but also in conversations happening all across the land.

"There are so many things you have to do to survive now," says Larue Lawson of Forest Park, Ill. "It used to be just clothes on your back, food on the table and a roof over your head. Now, it's everything.

"I wish it was just simpler."

Lawson, mind you, is all of 16 years old.

Then there's this from Sherry White in Orlando, Fla., who has a half-century in years and experience on the teenager:

"There is a sense of helplessness everywhere you look. It's like you're stuck in one spot, and you can't do anything about it."

In 1931, when the historian James Truslow Adams coined the phrase "The American Dream," he wrote of "a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement."

In 2008, using history as a yardstick, life actually is better and richer and fuller, with more opportunities than ever before.

"Objectively things are going real well," says author Gregg Easterbrook, who discusses the disconnect in his book "The Progress Paradox: How Life Gets Better While People Feel Worse."

He ticks off supporting statistics: A relatively low unemployment rate, 5.5 percent in June. (Employers did, indeed, cut payrolls last month by 62,000 jobs, but consider the 10.1 rate of June 1983 or the 7.8 rate of June 1992.) Declining rates of violent crimes, property crimes and big-city murders. Declining rates of disease. Higher standards of living for the middle class and the working poor. And incomes that, for many, are rising above the rate of inflation.

So why has the pursuit of happiness — a fundamental right, the Declaration of Independence assures us — become such a challenging undertaking?

Some of the gloom and doom may simply reflect a society that demands more and expects to have it yesterday, but in many cases there's nothing imaginary about the problems.

Just listen to farmer Ricardo Vallot, who is clinging tight to his livelihood.

Vallot expects to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on diesel fuel to plant and harvest his family's sugar cane crop in Vermilion Parish, La. His two combines burn up to 150 gallons a day, and with diesel running an average of $4.68 a gallon in the region, he sees his profits burning away, too.

"My God, it's horrible, it really is," the 33-year-old says, adding: "If diesel goes north of five, it will be really difficult at the price we're getting to stay in farming."

Stay-at-home-mom Heather Hammack grapples with tough decisions daily about how to spend her family's dwindling income in the face of rising food costs. One day, she priced strawberries at $1.75. The next day, they were $2.28.

"I could cry," she responds when asked how things are.

"We used to have more money than we knew what to do with. Now, I have to decide: Do I pay the electric this week? Do I pay for gas? Do I get groceries?" says Hammack, 24, who lives with her boyfriend, a window installer, and their 5-year-old son in a rented home in rural Rowlesburg, W.Va. "You can't get ahead. You can't save money. You can't buy a house. It just stinks."

Those "right direction, wrong direction" polls — the latest of which, in June, had only 14 to 17 percent of Americans saying the country is going the right way — show a general level of pessimism that is the worst in almost 30 years. Those feelings, coupled with government corruption scandals, lingering doubts over whether the Iraq war was justified, even memories of the chaotic response to Hurricane Katrina, have culminated in an erosion of our customary faith that elected leaders can get us out of a jam.

Says Arizona retiree Dian Kinsman: "You have no faith in anybody at the top. I don't trust anybody, and I'm really disgusted about it."

Stoking the furor is that Americans seem to feel helpless. After all, how can the average Joe or Jane control the price of gas or end the war?

"How am I, a little old West Virginia girl, going to go out and change the world?" asks Hammack.

Still, others suggest a lack of perspective and a sense of entitlement among Americans today may make these times feel worse than they are.

At 82, Ruth Townsend has experienced her share of downturns — in her own life and that of the country. She suffered a stroke years ago that left her in a wheelchair, and lives now in an assisted-living center in Orlando, Fla. Townsend recalls World War II and having to ration almost everything: sugar, leather shoes, tires, gas.

"You made do with the little you had because you had to. You shopped in the same stores over and over because you HAD to. We had coupon books and stamps to figure out what we could have," Townsend says. Americans have gotten so used to "things," she says, "that we can't take it when we hit a bad patch."

Allison Alvin condemns an "out of style" values system, in which even kids have cell phones, credit card debt is out of control and families purchase four-bedroom homes they can't afford instead of the two-bedroom ones they could.

"I'm mad at us ... all of my fellow Americans. Maybe a little hardship would be good for us," says Alvin, who at 36 has a job as a freight exporter in Cincinnati, a husband with a factory job, two healthy children, her own home and four cars, all paid off.

At the same time, she acknowledges feeling that "things are getting worse."

"When you're my age, you feel like you should be improving — more financially stable, instead of hand-to-mouth. It doesn't matter that we're better off than (others). It still hurts. It's still painful."

Easterbrook ascribes some of this to the media, noting that talk of "crisis" has become almost trendy — especially in an election year when politicians and pundits alike seem to feed on discontent as a catalyst for change, or ratings.

Round-the-clock saturation, shouting commentators and ceaseless images of "whatever's burning or exploding," he says, "give you the impression that the whole world is falling apart." Media reports noting that the world isn't rallying around U.S. policies also build frustration.

Perhaps that's why one of the Arizona Optimists, Marilyn Pell, couldn't help but raise her voice when referencing something she'd heard on the news: That gas prices might rise to $7 a gallon by 2010.

"What do you mean I've gotta pay $7 a gallon?" she exclaimed, even though it was just a prediction.

Such anxieties have concrete implications — affecting how we spend, how we vote and whether we are willing to take risks. These collective "bad moods" matter because they help steer the country's direction just as the country's direction shapes our mood. Franklin D. Roosevelt expressed this when he said in the depths of the Depression: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

Perspective also varies between the haves and have-nots.

In California's Silicon Valley, one of the wealthiest places, the nation's housing crash can be seen as a healthy correction and a buying opportunity, and high gas prices are unpleasant, yes, but not unbearable.

Maybe it's no surprise that at Ferrari Maserati of Silicon Valley, where $200,000 models are still being snapped up, sales manager Larry Raphael says, "We really haven't been affected by what the media says is a low mood in the country."

Yet in these rarefied ZIP codes, others are affected — even if they feel personally secure. "I worry about my gardeners and how they're dealing with the cost of fuel, for example. Floods, fires, there are so many things going on that are going to cost everyone money," says Suzanne Legallet of Atherton, Calif.

Whether things are going well or not, it is part of human nature to be dissatisfied with the present state of things, says Arthur Brooks, professor of business and government policy at Syracuse University and the author of "Gross National Happiness: Why Happiness Matters for America — And How We Can Get More of It."
"Very few Americans wake up in the morning and say, 'This is an unbelievable country. I'm going to go to the supermarket, and there's going to be food. When I go and vote, nobody's going to beat me up,'" he says. "We're horrible at appreciating the status quo. We're really good at appreciating positive changes."

With that in mind, then, Americans might take heart. Throughout our history, tough times have proved to be learning moments that provoked course corrections. The Civil War brought an end to slavery. Sit-ins and mass demonstrations prompted anti-segregation laws. Sept. 11 led to new anti-terrorism vigilance.

As Bob Dylan once said, "Chaos is a friend of mine."

At least it can be.

Perhaps, out of these trying days, we may see a more comprehensive energy policy, a sooner-than-later resolution of the war and, even, a more profound sense of personal responsibility — the motivation we needed to spend within our means, or make use of car-pool lanes and mass transit.

It's happening already, in big ways and small.

Hammack planted a garden of lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers, carrots. "If I can save a few bucks," she says, "I'm going to."
In Louisiana, Vallot buys fuel in bulk now and is looking at ways other farmers might pool together to bring the cost of diesel down further. "We have to take matters into our own hands," he says.

Many have, and that certainly erases some of the helplessness that begets despair. But Americans also must recognize that happiness — the stuff that truly fulfills and gratifies — comes not from what we own but who we are, says Dr. David Burns, a psychiatrist at Stanford University's School of Medicine.

"We tend to base our self-esteem on certain things that we think we need to be worthwhile as human beings. A lot of us base it on achievement, intelligence, productivity. Our sense of self-esteem gets tied up with our career, our income. So when things start reversing, you begin to feel like less of a person."

Nevertheless, says Burns, "Where joy comes from is a completely different place."

For Ernestine Leach, it's keeping the faith that this, too, shall pass.

"I think that it's so deeply rooted in us," the 59-year-old substitute teacher says on a recent Sunday as sunlight filters through a stained-glass window at First Baptist Church in Raleigh, N.C. "It's all that most Americans ... have ever known: That things did get better."

Her minister, the Rev. Dumas Harshaw Jr., has noticed some new faces in his pews as troubles deepen. He senses that more Americans are "in a wilderness, psychologically and spiritually," and "are trying to find grounding."

As Harshaw tells his congregation, we Americans are in a "season of testing."
Katy Neild, the Arizona Optimist whose son fights on in Iraq, understands that better than most. She worries about her child, and about the many other dilemmas confronting Americans.

"Did I cringe when I filled my car last week? Yes," she says. "But 100 years from now, if I were still alive, would I really care that I paid $4 a gallon for gas? No. I care my grandbaby is safe and she's well and she has a good place to live.

"Your joy can't be about your circumstances."

As she says this, the other Optimists nod in agreement. Then their president, Susan Kruse, begins reciting one of the 10 tenets of the "Optimist Creed," and the others soon join in, their smiles returning.

"Forget the mistakes of the past," they chime in unison, "and press on to the greater achievements of the future."

In the end, that's what the Optimists do. They get their troubles off their chests, debate possible solutions — and then move on to doing what they can to make some positive changes in their communities, and in their own lives.

A birthday lesson for all Americans, perhaps.

___

Contributing to this report were AP Writers Allen G. Breed, Martha Irvine, Todd Lewan, Martha Mendoza, Vicki Smith and Becky Bohrer.
 
I don't understand how any black person can support the Democrats now that they have embraced a policy of importing people from south of the border whos votes can be bought more easily with cheap 'social' programs. Of course this policy will not hurt Obama and his type - they have jobs and plenty of money.
 
I don't think Obama will win. He is the media darling. He benefited from mega publicity for months.
But will enough average white guys pull his lever? when push comes to shove, I don't see it happening in the Red states.

For a LOT of people, it will come down to race like everything does.
Whites for Mccain, Blacks for Obama, with crossover white libs to Obama. I don't think it will be enough.

More of the same. Mccain. I am thrilled. Not really. I don't like either one.
 
Don't think Obama will win?

Bush won by the narrowest margins.

The Blue States hold the largest numbers of Americans. The Northeast (NJ and NY) and California contain 1/3 of the US population and are solidly liberal.

Obama is leading McCain in every single national poll.

The liberal media clearly is working for Obama.

Every other country in the world is either dictatorial or socialist, sadly, America is next.

This is not tin foil hat stuff.
 
no, it's real and it will be close. But in the end, I really think Mccain will pull it out. The media makes the polls, the media licks Oboms boots.
Plus all these polls are coming off a blitz of Obama media where Mccain has had basically none.
As it closer to election and Obama has a 5-6 point lead I will be worried. Not now. Right now, it's like Obomb is Britney Spears coming off a world tour, all we have heard is his name.
Who knows, he could pull it out. I doubt it.
 
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