Reacting with your CCW

praetorian97,

I wasn't scoffing at the risk of a mistaken-identity shooting after a self defense incident. I was scoffing at the absolutely stupid statement that the risk of getting shot by a CCW holder is a "MUCH higher of a risk then being mistaken as the bad guy from a cop."

To the best of my knowledge, such a shooting has never happened, even once. Even if it has happened once upon a time (and I'd need to see a link to the news reports if it has), that risk in the real world remains considerably lower than the risk of such a shooting by first responders -- because those shootings actually do happen, as you can see by looking at the news and paying attention.

To be clear: there have been dozens of blue on blue shootings that have happened over the past few years (such as the beatdown you referenced). There have been several incidents where responding officers shot the good citizen CCW person. But there have been no or very few incidents where CCW holders unintentionally shot other CCW holders.

I am not saying such things cannot happen. I am saying that it's ludicrous to say that the risk of a good guy CCW holder getting accidentally shot by another good guy CCW holder is "MUCH higher" than the risk of the good guy getting shot by a law enforcement officer when the actual new reports plainly show the opposite.

It's just another variant of the paranoid "Blood in the streets!" mantra chanted every single stinking time concealed carry laws become more reasonable. Every time the laws change to make it easier for good citizens to protect themselves, paranoid people -- some of them media, some of them police officers, and some of them just gullible ordinary folks -- start saying things like "shootouts over parking places!" or "RAMBO!" or "shooting innocent bystanders!"

It's nonsense. It's ludicrous. And there's no reason to get sucked into repeating such nonsense when a simple look at the headlines (or an in-depth google search) shows you just how nonsensical this nonsense really is.

dennisrl said:
However I have never been able to find that study / article or have any other sources replicate or back it up with fact.
Click to expand...

And that's the part to remember. :) Lots of myths out there about how dangerous lawful concealed carry really is. The facts are on our side -- but only when we insist on using facts, and refuse to swallow unproven statements without a fact check.

pax
 
WANT A LCR 22LR
Senior Member

Join Date: September 5, 2010
Posts: 250
If the robbers didn't have guns, and you had none either, what would you do? The actions here would give a strong indication on what to do next.

A cleaner situation the OP could have described would be if you are standing inline at the checkout, the person directly in front of you pulls a gun and :

A: fires on the cashier

b: Pulls a gun and demands money

Another situation would be, this all occurs a few lanes down of you are some distance in the store.

I'd say A is a imminent threat to all and firing at contact distance would be justified.

B is a case of moving back out of sight, same goes for a robber a few lanes down.

Remember, it is carry for Personal Defense. If you can't shoot them if they were robbing you, you can't shoot them if they are robbing someone else.
Click to expand...

My CCW instructor discussed this situation with a bit of a twist. He said, you just came out of a convenience store bathroom and the clerk is at gunpoint. What would you do? His answer, go back in the bathroom and lock the door.

His reasoning was that if you shoot, the reflex action of a person with a finger on the trigger is likely to cause a startle reaction getting the clerk shot. He also said, if you were in another part of the store and saw this go down, find a defensive position and don't fire unless fired upon.

Lastly, for myself, with my old eyes, I suck at shooting my snub nose at 25 yards, even though I do well at 7 and 15 yards. Anything at a distance is taboo for me unless I am being shot at. I know my limitations. My SP101 is for up and close personal defense. I am proficient at that distance but I am not going to try and shoot the bad guy right next to a clerk, especially under a stress reaction on top of my bad eyes at 25 yards.

I practice at the range, but I am no longer going to qualify like I did when I was younger in the Army as an expert marksman with the .45 cal, just don't have the eyes I used to.
 
Its saddens me that they instruct such things as to get out of the situation and leave your fellow man behind to deal with his/her own situation alone.

I am not sure I could just look the other way. Even if I had family/friends with me, I would make sure they were safe and then see what I could do.
 
I think you have missed the point, or perhaps I didn't make it correctly. He was discussing the physiology of the startle response where a sudden distraction or loud noise can cause you to involuntarily squeeze the trigger making the clerk dead by your actions.

Secondly, how many folks can safely shoot the bad guy and miss the clerk? My SP101 is not a tactical weapon that can make that sort of precision shooting, at least in my hands. That is my limitations.

Now, if someone is already shooting, it is a situational choice on whether to intervene and make the outcome better. As many have rightly stated, you don't need a cowboy trying to be a hero, we already saw that recently with the OK pharmacist. He got his 15 minutes of fame and lifetime of free room and board.

The reality of movie shootouts vs real life means you need to very carefully consider when to intervene and when not to. Can you make the situation worse by intervening or will you save a life? Taking a defensive position is never a wrong idea whether you intervene or not. But, do remember that you can cause a gun to discharge pointed at the clerk by a startle reaction with your intervention. The result will be a dead clerk and a big lawsuit against you. Intervention carries its own risks. That is the real world. Intervene with extreme caution and walk away when you can walk away and hopefully the others as well too.
 
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