I'd like to buy just American stuff but that doesn't stop me from going to HF or enjoying my RCBS dies, shell holders and their bench primer. A good tool is a good tool and it is up to us as the consumer what that is. HF has some good stuff and some real crap. Everything I've got from RCBS has been worth the money and I'd buy from them again. BTW my presses are LCT, Bonanza CO-AX and a 550B all American made.
RCBS Rockchucker Supreme Made in China
- Thread starter Woolecox
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For me, it's not a matter of quality (with RCBS equipment) but rather a patriotic thing. Yes I understand a bit of "world economics" and my trying to buy USA products won't matter a whit to Big Business, but I'll feel better. I live in a small town and I buy locally when ever I can because I like to support "home", the same with other purchases, I prefer to support John Doe rather than Chang or Juan...
g.willikers
New member
There might be a good thing from all this world wide interactive wheeling and dealing.
Maybe it will prevent future world wars.
Maybe it will prevent future world wars.
stubbicatt
New member
Yes. I was recently in the market for a single stage press. I chose Lee because it is US made, and I don't think it is any lesser quality.
Don't get me wrong. I think the world of RCBS, but when I purchased my Summit press, it came to me with all the bolts, nuts and screws loose. Tightening all that to proper specification was a real chore. I understand that it is US made as well. How it got past QC I do not know. -- This was another factor that led me to purchase a Lee Classic Cast press.
That and the main feature of the press being proper handling of spent primers I saw as a unique feature.
Don't get me wrong. I think the world of RCBS, but when I purchased my Summit press, it came to me with all the bolts, nuts and screws loose. Tightening all that to proper specification was a real chore. I understand that it is US made as well. How it got past QC I do not know. -- This was another factor that led me to purchase a Lee Classic Cast press.
That and the main feature of the press being proper handling of spent primers I saw as a unique feature.
drain smith
New member
I'm a 20 year Vet. of a 20 year Vet. Every time we filled a body bag we would put an American flag over it. Your damn right made in America means something to me. And if you ever received one of those folded flags it would mean something to you too.
The sad thing is, in many things it's impossible to find items made in the USA. Craftsman tools are outsourced now, and that's something I never thought I'd see years ago.
Bushnell makes several different price levels for scopes. Their best are made in Japan, which is quite a turnaround from 50 years ago when stuff made in Japan was considered junk.
The others are made in the Philippines or China.
Bushnell makes several different price levels for scopes. Their best are made in Japan, which is quite a turnaround from 50 years ago when stuff made in Japan was considered junk.
The others are made in the Philippines or China.
The world has simply changed
I saw where my Chevrolet had its engine made in China. Robots are taking over many of the jobs in factories now and its hard to differentiate in quality anymore. Unskilled labor in many undeveloped countries have replaced high paying unskilled labor here in the USA. We have chosen in many cases to buy basic items at the lower costs and vendors have followed in order to stay in business. Its not about being patriotic, it is basic economics. Even Vietnam is participating. Most Americans simply could not afford to purchase everything "made in America". It is a world economy now in spite of our desires and wishes. And yes, I put the American flag on my father's casket two years ago and buy products from Japan and Germany even though he fought on both fronts.
I saw where my Chevrolet had its engine made in China. Robots are taking over many of the jobs in factories now and its hard to differentiate in quality anymore. Unskilled labor in many undeveloped countries have replaced high paying unskilled labor here in the USA. We have chosen in many cases to buy basic items at the lower costs and vendors have followed in order to stay in business. Its not about being patriotic, it is basic economics. Even Vietnam is participating. Most Americans simply could not afford to purchase everything "made in America". It is a world economy now in spite of our desires and wishes. And yes, I put the American flag on my father's casket two years ago and buy products from Japan and Germany even though he fought on both fronts.
Still have to recognize how the money moves.
Chinese company makes product and sells to US company - Money goes to China.
US Company sells product creating jobs in their stores and dealerships, money goes int US economy.
Chinese take money made when they sell product to US companies and buys products that they don't have skills and technology to produce (yet) and money that was sent to China returns home.
What's irritating most is that most jobs that used to pay "princely sums" have long ago been replaced by "automation" or "robotics". Because organized labor still demands wages higher than the marketplace will support, and consumers have increased their demand for affordable products, what else can manufacturers do?
Another factor that has played out in this move to offshore products is quality. Somewhere along the line a lot of US workers have lost their desire to put extra effort into quality, producing products that have been at times far inferior to what the foreign companies have made. Great examples are the auto industry of the 70's and various tool manufacturers.
It's complex but slowly people are learning. Learning that they may have to work for less money, produce quality products, and in their personal lives waste less.
Jobs are slowly returning to the US from overseas as transportation costs increase and the foreign workers demand more money. Just part of the normal cycle.
Chinese company makes product and sells to US company - Money goes to China.
US Company sells product creating jobs in their stores and dealerships, money goes int US economy.
Chinese take money made when they sell product to US companies and buys products that they don't have skills and technology to produce (yet) and money that was sent to China returns home.
What's irritating most is that most jobs that used to pay "princely sums" have long ago been replaced by "automation" or "robotics". Because organized labor still demands wages higher than the marketplace will support, and consumers have increased their demand for affordable products, what else can manufacturers do?
Another factor that has played out in this move to offshore products is quality. Somewhere along the line a lot of US workers have lost their desire to put extra effort into quality, producing products that have been at times far inferior to what the foreign companies have made. Great examples are the auto industry of the 70's and various tool manufacturers.
It's complex but slowly people are learning. Learning that they may have to work for less money, produce quality products, and in their personal lives waste less.
Jobs are slowly returning to the US from overseas as transportation costs increase and the foreign workers demand more money. Just part of the normal cycle.
A pause for the COZ
New member
People tend to over complicate a pretty simple issue.
The American work force via the labor unions. Over played their hands after WW2. Since the US was the ONLY functioning economy. The Unions made them pay.
Now the rest of the world has caught back up with the US and now the Companies are playing PAY BACK TIME!!
It is really that simple.
The American work force via the labor unions. Over played their hands after WW2. Since the US was the ONLY functioning economy. The Unions made them pay.
Now the rest of the world has caught back up with the US and now the Companies are playing PAY BACK TIME!!
It is really that simple.
buckhorn_cortez
New member
Uh...huh...well, Boeing has had a 30 year relationship with manufacturers in China. About 25% of any Boeing aircraft is made in China.
From a Boeing publication -
While the planes may be assembled in the United States, a lot of the parts in those planes are not manufactured in the United States.
BTW - General Electric jet engines have been manufactured in Monterey, Mexico for at least 25 years. So, if you're flying on a commercial jet airliner with GE jet engines - they're made in Mexico and the plane you're flying in, whether it's made by Boeing or Airbus, has parts made in China.
Had to be at least 5 years ago, a reloader walked into a Cabalas store with a video type camera. He managed to work his way back to the reloading presses and found a RCBS rock Chucker. It was about that time he started playing with the Rock Chucker; he operated the handle and noticed the ram moving and then suddenly and without warning the ram kicked forward when it reached the top. To him that was news worthy so he posted a video on U-tube..
It was about that time the ‘piler on-es’ piled on. They went after the Japanese. About that time a few other groups got involved and I wandered; is it possible no one on that forum has ever been under a Rock Chucker? I though they had to know there was a top and a bottom to the press.
All of my Rock Chucker Presses go into a bind when the ram reaches the top of its travel. All of my Rock Chuckers have linkage that limit travel, the linkage kicks the ram back at the bottom and because the ram is one piece and solid when the ram is kicked back at the bottom the top of the ram is kicked forward.
And that is the reason my rock Chuckers do not cam over, the non cam over on the Rock Chucker is a good thing.
F. Guffey
It was about that time the ‘piler on-es’ piled on. They went after the Japanese. About that time a few other groups got involved and I wandered; is it possible no one on that forum has ever been under a Rock Chucker? I though they had to know there was a top and a bottom to the press.
All of my Rock Chucker Presses go into a bind when the ram reaches the top of its travel. All of my Rock Chuckers have linkage that limit travel, the linkage kicks the ram back at the bottom and because the ram is one piece and solid when the ram is kicked back at the bottom the top of the ram is kicked forward.
And that is the reason my rock Chuckers do not cam over, the non cam over on the Rock Chucker is a good thing.
F. Guffey
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I'm only going to say this once, and I hope that everyone can just think about the long term concerns without going crazy.
China holds about 8% of out national debt, about ONE TRILLION dollars. This is a dangerous situation. We buy crap and trinkets from them with hard currency, they loan it to our government.
When we buy durable goods, we are left with equity for our spent money. When we buy coffee cups with cute captions. Neon high heeled flip flops, frivolous garbage like pet rocks, we distribute money to the Chinese that should be kept here, or at least be spent on products that are essential to life.
I avoid China as much as I can, and I avoid wal Mart, as well.
China holds about 8% of out national debt, about ONE TRILLION dollars. This is a dangerous situation. We buy crap and trinkets from them with hard currency, they loan it to our government.
When we buy durable goods, we are left with equity for our spent money. When we buy coffee cups with cute captions. Neon high heeled flip flops, frivolous garbage like pet rocks, we distribute money to the Chinese that should be kept here, or at least be spent on products that are essential to life.
I avoid China as much as I can, and I avoid wal Mart, as well.
I'm fairly sure that I'm not the only one on TFL who looks for a deal on ebay for reloading stuff from time to time. I'm at the point in life to where there isn't a whole lot I need for my reloading/shooting/hunting purposes. But I have, and still will, if I need something for my reloading equipment, hunt ebay.
Personally, since I'm retired, I can take the time to hunt down a set of dies, bullet mould or whatever, and find fairly easily a great item from the old "American Made" days, and buy most always from an American seller. That is one way to keep a bit of commerce "in country" and usually get a good deal, to boot. Many times, an item will have a 14 days return deal with the purchase, also. I believe this is one good avenue to keep things at home (IMO), and the little brown truck or postal service is still quite reliable.
Personally, since I'm retired, I can take the time to hunt down a set of dies, bullet mould or whatever, and find fairly easily a great item from the old "American Made" days, and buy most always from an American seller. That is one way to keep a bit of commerce "in country" and usually get a good deal, to boot. Many times, an item will have a 14 days return deal with the purchase, also. I believe this is one good avenue to keep things at home (IMO), and the little brown truck or postal service is still quite reliable.
reynolds357
New member
I prefer to buy Made in the USA, Germany, Japan, or Italy. The quality of the Chinese stuff is not consistent. I learned my lesson on this several times over the years. The last time I really learned the lesson was when my machinery parts supplier talked me into some Chinese ball bearings. DODGE is worth EVERY penny of the 400% it costs more than the China stuff.
Gunplummer
New member
You better believe it. The back of auto garages have oil drums full of scrap cast parts that come off cars. China can not cast anything right. I have been in machining over 40 years and most of you don't have a clue. It is a shame in this country how machining has gone down hill. I have to laugh when people start slinging the CNC crap around. The truth is: Somebody has to set up and run them. Anybody that thinks not is just plain wrong. I try not to buy junk from foreign countries, but as other people said, what is left?
Pond James Pond
New member
Cheap manufacturing and advanced economies don't go together. Higher costs of living, greater requirements for employers, more protection for employees etc. All good and all warranted if looked at from a purely ethical perspective, but all these cost.
When that is taken in the context of a constant demand by an uncompromising buying public for "better yet cheaper", something's got to give.
That something is often moving production to places without those financial stressors. Whilst the retail price we pay may drop, the hidden costs are financing countries that exploit rather than value their workers as well as ultimately financing the government coffers of countries that are now military challengers....
When that is taken in the context of a constant demand by an uncompromising buying public for "better yet cheaper", something's got to give.
That something is often moving production to places without those financial stressors. Whilst the retail price we pay may drop, the hidden costs are financing countries that exploit rather than value their workers as well as ultimately financing the government coffers of countries that are now military challengers....
And bringing this BACK on topic, lest it get closed, RCBS stands behind their products so that any issue with their presses will be rectified to the customer's satisfaction. That is all that really matters. We turn out as much junk as they do. US consumers have spoken and the majority want what they want, when they want it, and they want it cheap.
As to those harping about Walmart - I see more and more US stuff in there, especially compared to Target, Lowes, Macy's or Sears.
If I need more reloading equipment, RCBS will always get my first look - as will Forster and Redding.
As to those harping about Walmart - I see more and more US stuff in there, especially compared to Target, Lowes, Macy's or Sears.
If I need more reloading equipment, RCBS will always get my first look - as will Forster and Redding.
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