Racking the 30 Super Carry

Price.

Price of gun and price of ammo indicate no one is buying. It's in total free fall crash at this point. 30SC HST is currently the cheapest HST option. 30SC Gold Dot is currently the cheapest Gold Dot option. FMJ 30SC is at the same price as Federal 38 special pricing. https://ammoseek.com/ammo/30-super-carry/Federal

New gun in a magic round that just came out is rock bottom price at $250. https://gun.deals/category/hand-guns?caliber=4656

Both are not indicators but pretty much as market proof as a non Federal exec can get; few guns and we have to accept few buyers.

If someone wanted to argue the performance, the consensus is 30SC goes 11-13" in gel at .59 expansion.

Federal 380 Deep appears to out perform the current 30SC HST and Gold Dot personal defense rounds by Speer/Federal. 13"+ consistent at full .51 expansion. This should come as no surprise. Gold Dot and HST 380 are not the best 380 rounds. Step into 9mm and they are the best JHP rounds. 30SC isn't doing what 9mm does to these rounds. It's likely weight, the same reason 115gr Gold Dot isn't on the same level as HST/Gold Dot 124/147gr.

As noted above by OP, the EZ380 is likely easier to use than either the 30SC or 9mm EZ.

Strangely, a Federal 380 load outperforms their own created round that is marketing.

Federal 380 Deep is pure magic in performance. If you look at the bullet it's obviously genius for the struggle to perform 380. Solid copper, spire point tip. Combines everything needed:

tc7uiSlm.jpg


If more looked into it, I think the point of 30SC just goes away. Specially since we have the 380 EZ, P365, LCP, LC380 guns and no gun exists on Federal's own stated purpose that the gun frame could be smaller than a 9mm. No 30SC LCP.
 
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I'm seeing some good stuff in the thread, including the HydroShock Deep - hadn't heard of it previously - but we tend to be wandering off course when we discuss how dead the 30 SC is.

I don't care about how dead the 30SC is.

It would be nice if we could avoid variations on that theme. Thanks.
 
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That's fine. I brought up the RSA is the proof of slide rake weight over someone's feel of sample one at a gun counter. I wouldn't trust someone saying it's easier or not than the 9mm because of the sampling. S&W has made no statement that the EZ 30SC is or isn't easier to rack than the EZ 9mm.

Track down the RSA numbers between 9mm and 30SC and that would be the answer. I don't think that number exists right now. Only could call S&W to find it from what I am searching.
 
Jaywalker said:
I'm seeing some good stuff in the thread, including the HydroShock Deep - hadn't heard of it previously - but we tend to be wandering off course when we discuss how dead the 30 SC is.

I don't are about how dead the 30SC is.

It would be nice if we could avoid variations on that theme. Thanks.
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I have said what i have to say on 30sc and i stand by it, im done with the topic.

I submitted a contact form to s&w to ask the spring weight on the 3 models. Will see if they responded.
 
That's why some blowback pistols have a hinged tipping barrel. It's much easier to load them that way.
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Load and unload. The tipping barrel Berettas are tiny little guns (.22 and .25) which have small slides with not much area to grip which makes racking them difficult for many people. ALSO those guns do not have extractors.

No other guns I'm aware of use that particular system, and the maker only uses it on those models, the rest of the pistols they make don't use the hinged tipping barrel. Ever wonder why??

Everything in a pistol's design is related, but not always directly. Chamber pressure doesn't directly dictate recoil spring strength, mass and speed of the moving parts does. The function of a recoil spring is to return the gun to batter after firing. In some designs it also serves to slow the moving parts as they travel back in recoil. In some designs they don't do that as much as they do in others.

How much, and how many springs you need to compress, as well as the manner they get compressed, along with the shape and size of the gripping surfaces all play a part. AND so does the hand size and strength of the user.

When the same model gun is chambered for two different rounds, I don't see how there will be much difference between them regarding the force needed to load them. A measurable difference, perhaps, but a significant one? That would depend on the user.
 
44 AMP said:
Load and unload. The tipping barrel Berettas are tiny little guns (.22 and .25) which have small slides with not much area to grip which makes racking them difficult for many people. ALSO those guns do not have extractors.

No other guns I'm aware of use that particular system, and the maker only uses it on those models, the rest of the pistols they make don't use the hinged tipping barrel. Ever wonder why??
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The Beretta 380 caliber model 86 has a tip-up barrel. The recent Girsan copy MC 14T Tip-Up has a tip-up barrel. The Beretta 32 ACP Tomcat uses a tip-up barrel.

https://www.berettaweb.com/Beretta 80/Beretta 86.htm
https://eaacorp.com/product/girsan-mc-14t-tip-up/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_3032_Tomcat

The Beretta Model 84 slide is hard to rack and required more measured force than several other guns, including 9mm pistols according to this article:
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/review-beretta-model-84fs/358015

The Taurus clones for the 22 and 25 also use tip-up barrels.
The Taurus PT25 has a hard to rack slide, too.
https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/taurus-pt-25-review/137861


44 AMP said:
When the same model gun is chambered for two different rounds, I don't see how there will be much difference between them regarding the force needed to load them. A measurable difference, perhaps, but a significant one? That would depend on the user.
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I have a S&W EZ 380 and a S&W EZ 30SC. The 30SC is harder to rack the slide.

The force required to rack a 9mm 1911 is much less than that required for the same gun in 45 ACP. Wolff springs notes that the factory recoil spring strength of a 9mm 1911 is 14 lbs, and the factory recoil spring strength of a 45 1911 is 16 lbs. - and 19 pounds for 40 S&W.
https://www.gunsprings.com/COLT/1911+GOV'T+PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1
 
When the same model gun is chambered for two different rounds, I don't see how there will be much difference between them regarding the force needed to load them.
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That's my feeling, too, and is the reason I asked if anyone had any different impressions.
 
FWIW, the Girsan MC 14T Tip-Up is in gun stores, similar to the old Beretta m86. I saw one this week while looking at the Shield EZ.
 
The force required to rack a 9mm 1911 is much less than that required for the same gun in 45 ACP. Wolff springs notes that the factory recoil spring strength of a 9mm 1911 is 14 lbs, and the factory recoil spring strength of a 45 1911 is 16 lbs. -
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A 2lb difference in the spring rating = "much less" to you??

Doesn't seem like much less, to me.
 
74A95 said:
The Beretta 380 caliber model 86 has a tip-up barrel. The recent Girsan copy MC 14T Tip-Up has a tip-up barrel. The Beretta 32 ACP Tomcat uses a tip-up barrel.

https://www.berettaweb.com/Beretta 80/Beretta 86.htm
https://eaacorp.com/product/girsan-mc-14t-tip-up/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_3032_Tomcat

The Beretta Model 84 slide is hard to rack and required more measured force than several other guns, including 9mm pistols according to this article:
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/review-beretta-model-84fs/358015

The Taurus clones for the 22 and 25 also use tip-up barrels.
The Taurus PT25 has a hard to rack slide, too.
https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/taurus-pt-25-review/137861




I have a S&W EZ 380 and a S&W EZ 30SC. The 30SC is harder to rack the slide.

The force required to rack a 9mm 1911 is much less than that required for the same gun in 45 ACP. Wolff springs notes that the factory recoil spring strength of a 9mm 1911 is 14 lbs, and the factory recoil spring strength of a 45 1911 is 16 lbs. - and 19 pounds for 40 S&W.
https://www.gunsprings.com/COLT/1911+GOV'T+PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1
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In relation to the force required to rack the slide, Is that your subjective or objective opinion? Do you have data from the manufacturer to back this up? If so, please share, I am sure we would all love to see it.
 
It's a difference I can easily feel.
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ok, I can understand that. You can feel the difference so it matters to you. I can't so I don't care about it.

I can tell a difference of 2lbs with my trigger finger, depending on where the difference is in the weight range but I'm not calibrated enough to tell you the difference is 2lbs or 1.5 or 2.5, only that I can tell one is heavier than the other, but only on the low end. Meaning I can feel the difference between a 5lb pull and a 3lb pull, but cannot really tell the difference between a 14lb and a 12lb pull.

As far as a pistol being easy or difficult to rack, I think its a bit like felt recoil. Different guns, and different people are different, and even when the calculated energy needed is the same some folks will feel one gun being harder to rack than a different one.
 
74A95: "So you're just making stuff up based on your perceptions of what you think matters, and if it doesn't meet your criteria..."

BUT...

74A95: "My experience has been that blowback centerfire pistols are much harder to rack the slide than locked breech."


Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black with your "experience" being fully based on your "perceptions," 74A95.

Shadow never claimed that his comments were anything than his observations.

You know, just like your observations.

So, how about you settle down?
 
I for one am looking forward to hearing what S&W responds with.

But again, I don't think you can order an RSA for the EZ right now, so I'd call that a deal breaker.
 
I just spoke to a customer service rep at S&W. She said the Shield EZ 9mm and the 30SC Recoil Spring Assemblies are the same, while the 380 is different.

I am answered. Thanks for the input.
 
Yeah...but you're leaving your fan base with a conclusion
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It leaves me with facts, but not much of a decision, yet. The way I see it right now, I can buy a Shield EZ 30SC and get $200 of free ammunition. Or I can buy a shield EZ 380 and pay for a new line of ammo. Or I can buy the 9mm and I already have enough 9mm. The 380 is the most expensive of the choices. We'll see how the user reacts to the 9mm racking. More posts when she and I have made up our collective minds.
 
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