You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Racking the 30 Super Carry
- Thread starter Jaywalker
- Start date
Id steer clear of 30sc i dont think its catching on well any may not be around long.
That doesn't answer the OP's question. Your opinion on whether the cartridge will endure is irrelevant.
The weight of the recoil spring should be largely dependent on the recoil of the cartridge through the gun it's being fired in. Because both the 9mm and .30 Super Carry versions of the Shield EZ weigh nearly the same (23.81 oz for the 9mm and 23.6 oz for the .30 Super Carry) then the recoil of .30 Super Carry vs. 9mm should be the determining factor in the weight of their recoil springs and thus how easy/difficult the slides are to rack (the hammer spring will also play into this, but I cannot think of any reason that one caliber would need a stiffer hammer spring than the other). If we look at the advertised velocities of Federal ammunition (they were the first to bring the ammo to market and thus likely the ammo used by S&W when developing the gun), we see that the .30 Super Carry HST loading is a 100 gr bullet at 1250 fps while the 9mm HST to which it is usually compared is a 124 gr bullet at 1150 fps.
Most recoil calculators require the input of the grains of powder loaded in the cartridge, so we need to find reloading data that gives us similar ballistics to the factory load. From Hodgdon, we see that in .30 Super Carry, a 100 gr Hornady XTP over 4.6 grains of either CFE Pistol or Autocomp powder produced 1250 fps from their 4" test barrel. In 9mm, we see that a 124 gr XTP over 5.1 grains of either of CFE Pistol or Autocomp gave 1181 fps (I think we can live with a difference of 31 fps from Federal's advertised velocities).
So, now that we have data that includes the powder charges, we can run the numbers through a recoil calculator. For the sake of simplicity, I put the weight of both firearms at 1.5 lbs (they're both slightly less) and got the following result:
.30 Super Carry: 100 gr bullet/4.6 gr powder/1250 fps
Recoil Impulse 0.66 lbs.sec
Recoil Velocity 14.1 fps
Recoil Energy 4.63 ft.lbs
9mm Luger: 124 gr bullet/5.1 gr powder/1181 fps
Recoil Impulse 0.76 lbs.sec
Recoil Velocity 16.38 fps
Recoil Energy 6.25 ft.lbs
So, it would appear that the 9mm has more recoil, though not all that much more. The reports that I've seen from people who have shot .30 Super Carry and 9mm Shield EZ's side-by-side is that there is no discernable difference in recoil. As such, I would expect the .30 Super Carry Shield EZ to have a very similar, if not identical, weight recoil spring as the 9mm version and thus require about the same effort to rack.
As a point of comparison, the Shield EZ .380 weighs only 18.5 oz and .380 HST is advertised as a 99 gr bullet at 935 fps. Going to Hodgdon's data, we see that a 100 gr Hornady FMJ over 4.2 gr of Autocomp gave 934 fps from their 3.75" test barrel (same length Federal used for their HST). If we run the recoil calculation on that and put the weight of the gun at 1.15 lbs, we get the following:
.380 Auto 100gr bullet/4.2 gr powder/934 fps
Recoil Impulse 0.51 lbs.sec
Recoil Velocity 14.21 fps
Recoil Energy 3.61 ft.lbs
So, when the weight of the gun is taken into account, .380 gives nearly identical recoil velocity but lower recoil impulse and energy than .30 Super Carry even from a lighter gun, thus why the .380 can have a lighter recoil spring and thus be easier to rack.
Most recoil calculators require the input of the grains of powder loaded in the cartridge, so we need to find reloading data that gives us similar ballistics to the factory load. From Hodgdon, we see that in .30 Super Carry, a 100 gr Hornady XTP over 4.6 grains of either CFE Pistol or Autocomp powder produced 1250 fps from their 4" test barrel. In 9mm, we see that a 124 gr XTP over 5.1 grains of either of CFE Pistol or Autocomp gave 1181 fps (I think we can live with a difference of 31 fps from Federal's advertised velocities).
So, now that we have data that includes the powder charges, we can run the numbers through a recoil calculator. For the sake of simplicity, I put the weight of both firearms at 1.5 lbs (they're both slightly less) and got the following result:
.30 Super Carry: 100 gr bullet/4.6 gr powder/1250 fps
Recoil Impulse 0.66 lbs.sec
Recoil Velocity 14.1 fps
Recoil Energy 4.63 ft.lbs
9mm Luger: 124 gr bullet/5.1 gr powder/1181 fps
Recoil Impulse 0.76 lbs.sec
Recoil Velocity 16.38 fps
Recoil Energy 6.25 ft.lbs
So, it would appear that the 9mm has more recoil, though not all that much more. The reports that I've seen from people who have shot .30 Super Carry and 9mm Shield EZ's side-by-side is that there is no discernable difference in recoil. As such, I would expect the .30 Super Carry Shield EZ to have a very similar, if not identical, weight recoil spring as the 9mm version and thus require about the same effort to rack.
As a point of comparison, the Shield EZ .380 weighs only 18.5 oz and .380 HST is advertised as a 99 gr bullet at 935 fps. Going to Hodgdon's data, we see that a 100 gr Hornady FMJ over 4.2 gr of Autocomp gave 934 fps from their 3.75" test barrel (same length Federal used for their HST). If we run the recoil calculation on that and put the weight of the gun at 1.15 lbs, we get the following:
.380 Auto 100gr bullet/4.2 gr powder/934 fps
Recoil Impulse 0.51 lbs.sec
Recoil Velocity 14.21 fps
Recoil Energy 3.61 ft.lbs
So, when the weight of the gun is taken into account, .380 gives nearly identical recoil velocity but lower recoil impulse and energy than .30 Super Carry even from a lighter gun, thus why the .380 can have a lighter recoil spring and thus be easier to rack.
wild cat mccane
New member
I don't know the answer.
The EZ 30SC is heavier than the 9mm EZ. That's probably the barrel of the 30SC.
To answer your own question, if you can find out if they share the exact same RSA, you know the 9mm and 30SC rack the exact same and can't be different, regardless of someone's opinion.
The EZ 30SC is heavier than the 9mm EZ. That's probably the barrel of the 30SC.
To answer your own question, if you can find out if they share the exact same RSA, you know the 9mm and 30SC rack the exact same and can't be different, regardless of someone's opinion.
Jim Watson
New member
Sorry 'bout that.
Last edited:
Originally posted by Jim Watson
Google, man, google. I found for you
Part# 3014675 Smith and Wesson M&P M2.0 Shield Plus Recoil Spring Assembly Pistol 9mm, .30 Super Carry 3.1" Barrel Length.
Smith & Wesson Factory New Part.
The OP didn't ask about the M&P 2.0 Shield Plus, he asked about the M&P Shield EZ which uses a different recoil spring than the Shield Plus (it's confusing because S&W calls so many different guns M&P and Shield). If the part numbers for the 9mm and .30 Super Carry recoil springs are available, I haven't been able to find them.
wild cat mccane
New member
Yeah, it's not the standard M&P spring because it is advertised as having a lower weight spring to help racking.
However, I can't google find a single sku for the 9mm or 30SC EZ RSA, so I doubt anyone would have any idea on this answer.
Also...not being able to buy a RSA, THE wear component in an auto would make we very leery of buying any gun.
Good luck OP. I think you might hear suggestions of sampling at the counter, but I don't think anyone can say without seeing the 30SC and 9mm RSA skus
However, I can't google find a single sku for the 9mm or 30SC EZ RSA, so I doubt anyone would have any idea on this answer.
Also...not being able to buy a RSA, THE wear component in an auto would make we very leery of buying any gun.
Good luck OP. I think you might hear suggestions of sampling at the counter, but I don't think anyone can say without seeing the 30SC and 9mm RSA skus
Go find a shop that has both models in stock and find out for yourself. Easy for you and easy for me might be quite different things.
Technique matters, too. Holding the grip and pulling on the slide has a different feel than holding the slide and pushing on the grip.
Blowback guns often feel easier to rack than locked breech guns, but not always, as some blowback designs actually have heavier springs to hold them shut.
Technique matters, too. Holding the grip and pulling on the slide has a different feel than holding the slide and pushing on the grip.
Blowback guns often feel easier to rack than locked breech guns, but not always, as some blowback designs actually have heavier springs to hold them shut.
wild cat mccane
New member
Definitely confusing to investigate because the model is called the "M&P Shield EZ." Three distinct models within one name, all three with different RSA.
I did see someone recently commented on the S&W forum that it impossible to get a new RSA for the 9mm and they couldn't find the model number either.
I did see someone recently commented on the S&W forum that it impossible to get a new RSA for the 9mm and they couldn't find the model number either.
Blowback guns often feel easier to rack than locked breech guns, but not always, as some blowback designs actually have heavier springs to hold them shut.
My experience has been that blowback centerfire pistols are much harder to rack the slide than locked breech. That's why some blowback pistols have a hinged tipping barrel. It's much easier to load them that way.
That doesn't answer the OP's question. Your opinion on whether the cartridge will endure is irrelevant.
Op is looking to buy a new pistol. Whether 30sc racks easier is irrelevant if you cant get ammo for it and that needs to be taken into consideration.
Op is looking to buy a new pistol. Whether 30sc racks easier is irrelevant if you cant get ammo for it and that needs to be taken into consideration.
What information do you have about sales figures of guns? What information do you have about what the gun and ammo companies see with respect to the future of this caliber?
Please share your information so we will know what you know. Thanks.
Good questions, but ones I can't answer. But those are not the only metrics by which to judge a cartridges successful.What information do you have about sales figures of guns? What information do you have about what the gun and ammo companies see with respect to the future of this caliber?
Please share your information so we will know what you know. Thanks.
What i can tell you is that 30sc has been out for about 2 years now, released in 2022
In those 2 years the original 2 manufacturers of firearms in 30sc were s&w and nighthawk. That is the same today. If the cartridge was doing well more manufacturers would be chambering for it.
Looking at available ammunition. After 2 years, we have 3 offerings form federal, 2 from remington, 2 from cci/speer, and 1 from hornady. In 2 years only Hornady has added the cartridge to its offerings. Federal did add a load with their new punch bullet as well. But where are all the other manufacturers... and im not talking the botique guys.
Looking over youtube videos, the majority are 1 to 2 years old indicatinga significantdeclinein interest. The few posted within the last 2-3 months have been critical of the cartridge, with some even outright saying it failed and asked if it can or even should be saved.
I can also tell you i have not seen one in a gun shop yet and i have been looking, thus i cant relate slide racking pressure as i have not been able to handle one. But my guess would be it would need a heavier spring as it runs at 52k psi.
Ops best bet would be to call s&w and ask what the spring weights are in each of the guns to know for sure.
Last edited:
Good questions, but ones I can't answer. But those are not the only metrics by which to judge a cartridges successful.
What i can tell you is that 30sc has been out for about 2 years now, released in 2022
In those 2 years the original 2 manufacturers of firearms in 30sc were s&w and nighthawk. That is the same today. If the cartridge was doing well more manufacturers would be chambering for it.
Looking over youtube videos, the majority are 1 to 2 years old indicatinga significantdeclinein interest. The few posted within the last 2-3 months have been critical of the cartridge, with some even outright saying it failed and asked if it can or even should be saved.
I can also tell you i have not seen one in a gun shop yet and i have been looking, thus i cant relate slide racking pressure as i have not been able to handle one. But my guess would be it would need a heavier spring as it runs at 52k psi.
So you're just making stuff up based on your perceptions of what you think matters, and if it doesn't meet your criteria, it's a failure and will certainly be discontinued.
Based on your own statement, the 30 Super Carry must be doing well. Avidity Arms has introduced a gun in 30 Super carry. https://avidityarms.com/pd10-pistol/
Peak chamber pressure has nothing to do with recoil spring strength. Recoil force and slide weight dictate recoil spring strength.
Get back you us when you have sales figures, instead of made up stuff.
Last edited:
I stated my opinion as my opinion and my reasons for my opinions. Last i checked this is a forum in which opinions can be shared and personal attacks are prohibited.So you're just making stuff up based on your perceptions of what you think matters, and if it doesn't meet your criteria, it's a failure and will certainly be discontinued.
Based on your own statement, the 30 Super Carry must be doing well. Avidity Arms has introduced a gun in 30 Super carry. https://avidityarms.com/pd10-pistol/
Peak chamber pressure has nothing to do with recoil spring strength. Recoil force and slide weight dictate recoil spring strength.
Get back you us when you have sales figures, instead of made up stuff.
Introducing and actually putting something on the shelves are 2 very different things.
Peak chamber is a force. For every force there is an equal and opposite reaction. There are a lot of factors and that is indeed one of them.
wild cat mccane
New member
Oh. The 30SC is absolutely is a dead round. I suspect you don't really want to see the logic that shows it.
I gave up on hold yesterday with S&W customer service - was going to ask for the three RSA part numbers.
For all - thanks. I'm aware that the 30SC is new-ish and taking heat for its supposed irrelevancy. If it racks easier than the 9mm EZ, I would argue that replacing the 380 means it isn't irrelevant - it's just different and is suspect because of that.
I can't find a Shield EZ 30SC locally to test. I can find 9mm and 380. I like the 30SC concept.
As for its being already "dead," I don't much care. The 32 H&R is definitely dead but I still have 400 rounds of factory ammunition and like having six rounds in a Ruger SP-101. I suspect I'd like having 10 rounds in a Shield EZ, but it isn't for me - it's for a person who can sometimes rack an EZ 9mm.
For all - thanks. I'm aware that the 30SC is new-ish and taking heat for its supposed irrelevancy. If it racks easier than the 9mm EZ, I would argue that replacing the 380 means it isn't irrelevant - it's just different and is suspect because of that.
I can't find a Shield EZ 30SC locally to test. I can find 9mm and 380. I like the 30SC concept.
As for its being already "dead," I don't much care. The 32 H&R is definitely dead but I still have 400 rounds of factory ammunition and like having six rounds in a Ruger SP-101. I suspect I'd like having 10 rounds in a Shield EZ, but it isn't for me - it's for a person who can sometimes rack an EZ 9mm.
If peak chamber pressure dictated recoil spring strength, then 9mm pistols would have much stronger recoil springs than a 45 ACP. Peak maximum average chamber pressure of the 9mm Luger is 35,000 psi. Peak maximum average chamber pressure of 45 ACP is 21,000 psi. Yet, to the best of my knowledge, the 45 uses stronger recoil springs when in the same gun design, for example, the 1911.
I'm not sure it is a 'personal' attack to ask for actual evidence to support claims. All I see in your response is stuff that somehow fits your criteria, which is not necessarily consistent with facts. Some of your comments are not supported by facts. Last I heard, this forum does prefer the truth over not-true.
I'm not sure it is a 'personal' attack to ask for actual evidence to support claims. All I see in your response is stuff that somehow fits your criteria, which is not necessarily consistent with facts. Some of your comments are not supported by facts. Last I heard, this forum does prefer the truth over not-true.