Question: How are Glock 17's carried?

Incredible, right? Can you imagine fellow officers present and no one knows nuthin'? Reminds me of Schultz on Hogan's Heroes.
 
No personal offense intended but I have a hard time believing that someone officially attached to a case like this might not be prejudicing the case by coming here and disclosing that kind of info--but I'm not a legal expert.
 
I have always heard that eyewitnesses are not as reliable as physical evidence.

I have often heard that policemen and other armed government employees are not firearms experts.

Looks like the conventional wisdom is two for two this time.
 
The evidence would *suggest* one shot was fired, but can't rule out a second was fired.
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By that line of reasoning it doesn't rule out any amount of ammunition expended--lacking additional evidence or testimony.
 
I really thank you all for your input that has really been invaluable. I, for one, could never imagine carrying with an empty chamber. Yet, now I am finding that some officers do so. I also would not think of charging my firearm with a chambered round and then failing to refill the magazine to capacity.

Prejudicing the case? What agency are we talking about? What officer? What jurisdiction? Shooting victim? Relax. I came here for the real skinny on Glocks to help me and really you did. Very much so. Thank you.
 
Sorry--but I fail to see any "real skinny on Glocks" as magazines are magazines and chambers are chambers as if somehow they constrain the possible amount of ammo fired. Sounds like you're going to need to build a case around lots of other circumstances to support a "more than one theory" especially lacking corroborating testimony from 4 officers present at the time of shooting.

PS--I should be more gracious and say you're welcome : ) and BTW I would take anything said here--including (especially) by me--with 25 tons of salt LOL.
 
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Don't know what the officer really did, but.......

in all the TV shows I watch, the detectives take the glock out of the drawer in their desk when they go out and then chamber a round and shove the pistol into their holsters. It doesn't show them topping off their "clips".:cool:

Therefore as an armchair expert I would deduct that a 17 round magazine with one loaded in the chamber as they left the office would equal 16 in the magazine.
I did watch that at the holiday inn last night!:p
 
In some of the TV shows I've watched, they rack the slide when they get out of the car and again when they prepare to enter the building. :rolleyes: So 17 - 2 = 15. ;)
 
I, for one, could never imagine carrying with an empty chamber. Yet, now I am finding that some officers do so.
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Where did you find that Officers in this country EVER go on duty with an empty chamber? Nobody here suggested any such thing. In all my years as a Weapons and Tactics Trainer (20+) and all the different agencies ive trained (30ish), ive never heard of a single officer that carried his/her pistol without a round chambered.

Long guns in racks...yes. Cruiser ready is the norm. Pistols...NEVER
 
Regular Joe (#14 above) mentioned IDF carry. And, BTW, I have recently spoken with an FTO who informed me that he has discovered, despite training, that his recruits are carrying guns with an unchambered round. Now, as per his own routine, the moment he pulls out from the station with a new recruit he goes to an isolated area and inspects their weapon to make sure they've got a chambered round. It seems to me some police, not just civilians, are fearful of carrying a chambered round. I acknowledge its doesn't make good police sense. But I must deal with reality in my search for the truth.
 
I take my previous comment back--I would definitely pay attention to what shark bite says since he trained LEO's--though that still doesn't quite answer the mystery as to whether or not the officer in question a) had a fully loaded mag and b) whether or not he/she had "topped off" the extra cartridge at the time of the shooting. I must say this has a very interesting plot given what little info has been revealed so far.
 
Taking the original post at face value:

Glock 17 mag capacity has been addressed.
Method of carry in terms of 17+1 or 16+1 has been addressed.

Department policies regarding such would be a factor in an investigation of an officer-involved shooting, if any exist.
My department required full-up loading in all Glocks issued or private purchase, largely to avoid this type of post-incident "Did you fire one, or did you fire two?" issue.

If the Glock (or any other pistol) is carried routinely full-up, it can help reduce uncertainties later on in reconciling brass found at scene, number of rounds found in gun, and officers' or witnesses' memories.

That said, I've been outa there long enough to be able to say today that I took into consideration the tendency of Glock 17 mag springs to shorten under constant tension, the single mag-related Glock 17 feed failure I personally experienced (the only failure or stoppage in that 1988 Glock that I still have today), and deliberately downloaded my carry mags by one round each in clear violation of written department policy to reduce the possibility of a shortened spring causing a malfunction.

In the years since retiring I've intermittently carried a Glock 17, always downloaded by one round.

My own reasoning, which I do not promote for others who can make up their own minds, was & is that I prefer to be around later to explain the number of rounds carried/shot, rather than risk lying in a puddle of red with 18 rounds accounted for and a jammed pistol, at which point how I started out would be a literal dead issue. :)

In saying this, I do not mean to start up the usual arguments that mag springs can't shorten during long periods of constant compression.
I've seen it personally IN GLOCK 17s, and I offer the above commentary to address the original question posed about carrying one.

I also do not mean to suggest that stoppages from shortened mag springs are a high risk factor in Glocks.
Shortened mags was a known factor at my PD, the armorer would switch out old for new if he found a significant shortening in carry mags during his annual inspections.

I was not the only one who downloaded by one because of it.
Possibly unnecessary, not interested in debate, merely offering the above as a reason why a 17 might be carried downloaded by one.

Also, during a shooting where adrenaline & chaos run high, it's quite possible that those present may not remember if one shot or two were fired. :)
Denis
 
I am of the opinion with only one casing found on-scene and no projectiles recovered that the officer only fired once. And that's why in my own training and experience I am baffled by his surrendering a weapon with 16 rds when I would've expected 17 with one shot fired if carried 17 + 1. From spontaneous utterances made, in relation to not recalling how many shots discharged, we learned that he does not recall hearing the shots that night, can't remember how many shots fired (by him or bad guy) and that his hearing was impaired for a few days after the shooting - ringing in his ears.
 
armedleo .....And, BTW, I have recently spoken with an FTO who informed me that he has discovered, despite training, that his recruits are carrying guns with an unchambered round.
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I find that incredibly difficult to believe.




Now, as per his own routine, the moment he pulls out from the station with a new recruit he goes to an isolated area and inspects their weapon to make sure they've got a chambered round. It seems to me some police, not just civilians, are fearful of carrying a chambered round. I acknowledge its doesn't make good police sense. But I must deal with reality in my search for the truth.
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Sounds to me like that department needs a new FTO and needs to address such stupidity in their academy/ new officer training.
 
Yes, I concur. And its all the more believable because it is from a credible source and, as they say, You just can't make this stuff up!
 
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