Question for LEOs

I was also a MP 83-97 with the 1911 and we were required to carry full mag, empty chamber I was also a LEO as was most of the guys in the unit and we always were breaking the rule. We didn't keep ammo on hand so when we had to go do duty at Camp Roberts we would have to get our ammo on the economy locally normally getting Silvertip HP's for duty as the rule of war didn't apply.

All the LEO agencies I know of carry full mag, loaded chamber.
 
I like James Patterson, generally speaking, but cringe when Alex Cross clicks off the safety on his Glock.
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The charachter from the book "Night Watch" has a .45 caliber Desert Eagle. Which is sometimes referred to as a revolver, but has the unusual property of having a magazine.
 
The issued duty weapon is an H & K .40 LEM. Protocol was lock and load with 13 + 1. Always one in the chamber. Time is of the essence. Precious time is lost especially in close quarters combat and it could mean the difference between being victorious or being carried away in a body bag if one had to chamber a round when the action already started. And...without one in the chamber, you are already down one round. We were authorized to carry only one extra magazine (although most of us concealed the third). You never know until that day comes and you hope it never does and further hope that the training kicks in.
 
My agency has an asinine and unsafe policy regarding the long arms that we check out but our duty pistol is always condition 1 and the magazine topped off, which we call "duty carry". I sincerely believe that our long arm policy was drummed up by brass and policymakers (it's federal so it goes to DC) who believe that firearms go off on their own.

When I did convoy security overseas, we actually were ordered by our convoy commander to have our vehicle mounted machine guns to only have the belts slipped under the feed trays. I think at the time I was there (late, supposedly after all the indiscriminate killing was frowned upon :rolleyes:) this was the policy as they actually had signs on how to make your crew serves how they wanted it at the gate before you left the wire. I know not everybody followed this rule, and we certainly had our personal weapons condition 1. Some guys opted not to have their M203s loaded though, and sometimes I didn't have my shotgun in condition 1 either.

PS: The killing comment is a mockery of articles that I've read that state we fired on everything indiscriminately during the early part of the war. I can't attest to that as I wasn't there, but if it were true, then my time was on the opposite end of the spectrum as there were definitely times where we should have (or could have) gone hot on some vehicles but instead all they received was a green star cluster.
 
I retired from full time policing in 2007 and they were going to Glocks in 45 as I was going. During my time the issue was a S&W 6906. We did not use the decocker as a safety, and did not call it a safety. It was a decocker. We carried full magazine, round in the chamber, and the decocker in the up position. (safety off) The shotgun was carried with an empty chamber and the hammer down on the empty chamber and safety off. All you had to do was grab it, cycle the action and fire. This was to avoid having to remember to hit the slide release, pump the action, and then take the safety off under stress. Just pump and go. Now with Glocks (that I have no use for but are very popular with my former co-workers) it is hot chamber, full magazine, and they have replaced the shotguns with AR 15 223 carbines. I am not sure how they are carrying those.

In my personal guns (now mostly little concealed carry guns) I carry fully loaded. See no point in empty chambers, except in the case of Colt SAA carry. (in my case with USFA guns) This is required for safety due to the 1873 design. 5 rounds of full power 45 Colt ammo gets most things done if you happen to need to do anything while so armed. (not first choice for self defense, but you never know what you will have on you when you meet that one idiot....)
 
Federal LEO here...

Full mag in the gun, one in the chamber. For us that's "duty carry." I don't think we're the exception.
 
While serving as a Marine Corps MP, I had to carry my 1911 with five rounds in the magazine, hammer down, empty chamber. We had a whopping two extra mags of five rounds. I only had to chamber a round once or twice while on duty. It is a poor practice but I am certain it had to do with giving 19 year olds a badge and a pistol. We all heard the stories about guys playing quick draw and failing to keep their finger off of the trigger

I'm sure that most of the empty chamber stuff evolved from the early part of the 20th century when pistols were mostly single action. The five pound trigger is unforgiving for those with fingers on the trigger. In reading the excellent book by Fairbairn and Sykes entitled, "Shooting to Live", I was shocked to see that was exactly the condition the Shanghai police carried their pistols. The authors stressed extreme speed as a main contributor to close quarter victory but yet the pistol was in a flap holster with an empty chamber. A quote from their book, "the pistol, when carried on service, should have a charged magazine inserted but that it should never be carried with a round in the breech" They further advised that the safety should be permanently disabled and never used. The gentlemen wrote that the Shanghai police had been involved 666 armed confrontations in 12 and a half years, killing 260 criminals while losing 42 officers.

I think it's a bad practice due to the fact that one arm could be disabled. I always carried mine cocked and locked while working civilian LE. However, with practice, you could get pretty quick with it, like the Shanghai boys.
 
I'm sure that most of the empty chamber stuff evolved from the early part of the 20th century when pistols were mostly single action. The five pound trigger is unforgiving for those with fingers on the trigger. In reading the excellent book by Fairbairn and Sykes entitled, "Shooting to Live", I was shocked to see that was exactly the condition the Shanghai police carried their pistols. The authors stressed extreme speed as a main contributor to close quarter victory but yet the pistol was in a flap holster with an empty chamber.
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As mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, while serving in the USAF in the early sixties as an Air Policeman, we were required to carry our 1911s with an empty chamber, loaded magazine, in a flapped holster. However, as many nineteen year olds wearing a badge and toting a pistol are wont to do behind closed doors, I practiced and practiced getting the pistol into action, despite its compromised state of readiness. Practicing with a triple-checked unloaded gun, I got to where I could hold my hat straight out from my chin, drop it and be able to draw the pistol from the flapped (but unsnapped) holster, chamber a "round" and drop the hammer before my hat hit the floor. Fortunately for me, I was never caught practicing my quick draw with a chamber empty 1911.

Those were the days! :)
 
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