Question for LEOs

I stand to correct you all, there was a LEO who carried an empty chamber, six to be exact and his name was BARNEY FIFE!!!! Yup ole barn had one bullet and he kept it in his shirt pocket. Ok back to the real world, some military law enforcement units do carry their M-16's with a loaded mag inserted, but empty chamber. Civilian law enforcement side, I have not heard of this, if your law enforcement training is so poor, or your weapon so unsafe that a live round in the chamber is prohibited, you have no right to be armed period. You, or your gun, are liabilities to safety, protecting yourself and the public.
 
While the issued weapon in my dept. is the Glock 17, I preferred and carried a 1911 (RHIP :D), and I know of no dept. that requires carry with an empty chamber.

Now the military? That was a different matter. Back in the late 60's / early 70's, I stood quarterdeck watch in foreign ports with a 1911. We were allowed five rounds in the magazine and none in the chamber (and our ASROC launcher (sometimes) carried nukes! :eek:)

Not surprising though, when you consider that "qualification" with the 1911 consisted of shooting five rounds at a 4 foot by 6 foot piece of paper from a distance of 10 feet :rolleyes:.
 
I was an MP in the Army from 1979-1982 we were required by regulation to carry an empty chamber with a loaded magazine.
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Same regulation when I was an AP (Air Forces's equivlent of an Army MP) in the USAF from 1962 through 1966. But in my 26 year career in le, after we transitioned from revolvers to autos, everyone in my outfit and every other le agency that I became acquainted with mandated a chambered round. The only area of disagreement had to do with carrying a traditional da auto on safe or off safe if said pistol was equipped with a safety.
 
As a LEO you're on offense, not defense, you are called into situations to enforce the law, you are a target for evil doers by displaying badges, patches, and marked vehicles. If someone breaks the law, you're their threat, so you need to draw and fire during any type confrontation, Domestics and MV stops can go bad real quick.

As a civilian you have no obligation to intervene (dial 911) if a crime is or might be taking place, you have a choice, its not your job to take a police action, police officers have legalities to abide by when they have any knowledge that a crime is or might be taking place.

Any off duty LEO out there knows that there is a inner power that makes you step in when there's a confrontation taken place, except if you have more than 20 years on the job...LOL.

LEO's better carry in a " lock & load "... now if your a civilian, carrying in a lock and load is up for discussion, i would never recommend carrying non-chamber as a rule, i personally " Israeli Carry"... but that's my personal preference... and its not for everyone.
 
Gotta share the condition 3 story I love: aboard the USS Wiltsie, . . . San Diego tin can, . . . in port across from Coronado, . . . late '66 or so.

Peter Bychowski, . . . bless his heart, . . . has sounding and security patrol. He's carrying a raggedy old 1911 that had a mag in it, . . . hammer down on an empty chamber. He hears a noise on the top of the ASROC launch station, . . . hollers for whoever is up there to come down, . . . NOW !

Nobody does anything (couple of deck hands finishing off a fifth they smuggled aboard earlier).

Pete racks the slide on that 1911, . . . re-states his first sentence, . . . WHOOOEEEEE, . . . did the hands go up then, . . . efferey-boddey knows the sound of the 1911 going to condition 1, . . . nobody wanted Pete the junk dealer to make scrap out of them.

It still tickles me when I think of it, . . . :D :D :D

May God bless,
Dwight
 
Over the years I've resigned myself to accepting that the majority of fiction authors are seemingly not firearm owners or users. Or have some token cursory training at best. Or rely on some cop to advice them in technical firearms matters. Or seem to have acquired their knowledge from other authors of either similar books or gun magazines.

Mistakes in gun handling, manipulation, nomenclature, description and sometimes even operation can be appalling, and are something I simply try to ignore and not to let it detract from the rest of the novel's storyline. Even Clancy disappoints in this respect.

It's easier to overlook such errors in sword & sorcery/fantasy/sci-fi books.

Also, at least Heinlein was familiar with the use of a sword in some circumstances (as a fencer). ;)
 
It is a good idea to remember that fiction writers write fiction, and most don't know squat about guns.

"Hardcase Sam drew his .38 millimeter automatic and pressed the bottom to check the cylinders. The revolver was loaded, all right, with all 36 rounds of 357 inch steel case balls nestled in their places back of the nozzle, ready to go. He pulled back the clicker and waited for the evil Moriarty to approach."

Not a direct quote from any specific writer, but with ideas from several.

Jim
 
now if your a civilian, carrying in a lock and load is up for discussion, i would never recommend carrying non-chamber as a rule, i personally " Israeli Carry"... but that's my personal preference... and its not for everyone.
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Posted by someone named "Gunsite"...now that is funny.
I guarantee if you've ever been to Gunsite, you would never consider "Israeli carry". :rolleyes:
 
When I was a federal deputy we carried one up the spout in a double action only auto pistol - ready for combat.

Sounds like "hollywood" bull crap to me.

Regards,
Oly
 
I'm not an FBI agent nor have I played one on TV. I have worked pretty closely with a few, for short periods of time, as circumstances dictated. Also carried an assignment-specific US Marshal's commission at times, and worked with more of them.

NO federal LE agency, in my experience, hamstrings their people by requiring that they carry Condition 3. No federal contract security outfit, again to my knowledge, does either. What you are seeing there is 'editorial license'.
 
When I was in Special Delta Ranger Para Recon Forces ( It's a mouthful, I know!), we carried one in the chamber, safety off, 'cause "This is my safety, sir."

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I'd never carry without a round in the chamber. This (carrying without a round in the chamber) requires you to occupy both hands for the gun to be of more use than a club which can be very dangerous in a close engagement. I carry my 1911 condition one, ready to go!
 
Don't forget the geniuses ND'ing into the clearing barrels outside the chow hall. Fobbit Rangers......
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ROFL! I had a flashback to an incident I had some years ago.

Attempting to drive on base as I'd done a gazillion times before whent the LCPL at the gate advised me to proceed to pass and decal for an expired sticker. I replied that I'd just had that sticker applied the previous month (I thought for sure he had the dates backwards). He then took a step forward, crouched and made ready to draw on me while screaming, "proceed to pass and decal NOW!"

Keep in mind this was peace time, state-side with a low threat level, and I was in uniform.

I went to the MARDET NCOIC's office and told the Gunny what'd just happened. He replied, "That little ---- would shoot his ------- foot off if he ever really had to defend his post."
 
It's sad; even some good authors...

... don't understand firearm basics.

I like James Patterson, generally speaking, but cringe when Alex Cross clicks off the safety on his Glock.

I won't even get into VI Warshawski and her gun practices in the first book or two...

I'm a big fan of Robert B. Parker, but way too many of his bad guys succumb way too quickly to single rounds from a .38 Chief's Special.

James Lee Burke seems to actually be somewhat of a firearms guy. I haven't yet found an error in his characters' weapons handling. Usually, Elmore Leonard is pretty good about firearms, too.

But I think that if one really wanted to, one could find fault with fiction authors in any number of technical specialties. For instance, I saw "The Hunt for Red October" with a couple of former submariners. Big mistake. I'm not sure I could share their complaints without skating too close to the classified line, but suffice to say they were not pleased.

And I'm sure my friends who saw "Die Hard 2" with me were none too pleased with my own commentary on how the basic premise was completely implausible (IE hijacking the control tower at Dulles and realigning the Instrument Landing System to cause crashes). EG, "As if there's no such thing as Center and Approach frequencies, or planned divert airfields, or cross-checking of multiple navigation systems... you would never see all those aircraft in the holding stack; they'd eventually just bingo to their divert even if the highjackers had managed to jam all the center frequencies..."

And I know ER was easily picked apart by a gf I had years ago, who'd been an ER nurse in Philadelphia.

So I guess we shouldn't be surprised over firearm ignorance in books and movies.

Cheers,

M
 
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