Question for LEOs

B

bikerbill

New member
I've seen a number of threads here and elsewhere on whether to carry a semi-auto with a round in the chamber or not. As civilians, we can make up our own minds about that. I personally wouldn't carry an SD weapon with an unloaded chamber. That's just me.

I'm in the middle of a good Michael Connelly mystery, "Blood Work." The hero is an ex-FBI agent who's trying to solve a trio of murders which appear to be unrelated.

At one point in the book, after the boat he lives on is broken into while he and his lady are on board, he decides to start carrying his service weapon, a Sig P-228. He slips in a magazine but doesn't chamber a round, "following the same safety precaution he had always practiced while with the bureau."

I don't agree with that idea. But I'm hoping any LEOs on the forum will let me -- us -- know if they are required to leave the chamber empty, or carry the gun with a round in the chamber -- or are left to make the decision themselves. Love to know the department's reasoning behind whatever they require.

Thanks in advance ...
 
I don't know of any American law enforcement agency that requires or teaches that you carry a handgun with a loaded mag and an empty chamber. There may be some military or gov't outfits that do but that's a different story.

I'm a LEO in Maine, when we train and qualify the drill is the same every time - insert mag, cycle action, drop mag, top off, reinsert mag. Then you're ready for duty, anything less and you are a fool or employed by fools that make stupid rules. A partially loaded weapon is as good as empty and useless except as a blunt object.

And everyone can save the arguments about the "Israeli Method", it doesn't apply to American LE.

Oh yeah, obviously Mike Connely doesn't know dick about the "bureau".:mad:
 
You could bet that more than likely you will need that other hand to hold someone close up away from you or move a friend or spouse while drawing your handgun with the other. If it's unchamberd your probably on the way to the hospital already. Don't watch TV or read fiction for anything real world.
 
I can't imagine ever carrying my duty weapon, or any firearm for that matter with an empty chamber. The last thing I want to have to do when I need the gun is chamber a round first. That could have been the half second you needed to win the draw. You better believe the bad guy has a round in his chamber. We've had officers accidently show up to qual without a round in the chamber and got a butt chewing like no other.
 
If you carry an unloaded chamber on a semi-auto, and need your other hand to hold the BG off of you, it's not a problem.

Just bury the back sight in the BG's ear, and push to chamber a cartridge.

Or, carry a revolver?

:D

Daryl
 
OEF policy right now is loaded mag, empty chamber, but I think this is motivated more to avoid misfires than anything else. I think its a little overkill considering the ridiculous number of built in safeties on the M9, but rules is rules...
 
Thats the OEF policy while in garrison. And its b/c numerous geniuses have shot their nuts off. Out playing with the locals its cond 1.
 
Michael Connelly aside, the FBI never taught carrying with an empty chamber. By the time they issued SIG 228's (after the S&W 1076's started failing), all FBI approved autos had been required to have a firing pin safety for years, to facilitate carry with a loaded chamber. This had applied only to specialized units like SWAT, of course, which used S&W 459's, then went to SIG 226's while most agents were still carrying revolvers
 
Not to seem a hi-jacker, but. . . . .

Does the average LEO -- civ or mil -- prefer to receive the vehicle license, along with the Permit To Carry license of the individual stopped? Also, does it flip up any flags when the back window has an "Insured By (insert ...model.....here) " pasted on it?? Is there a negative, positive, or neutral pre-action started??
 
I dont know of any LE agency that requires officers to carry a pistol with an empty chamber. I sure as heck wouldn't

For a while before I retired our department started allowing us to carry Autos. Most carried 1911s locked and cocked, meaning round in the chamber, hammer cocked, and safty on.

Thats the way 1911s were designed to be carried.

To answer the other questions, I always assumed the guy I stopped was armed. When I was an FTO I also taught that every guy you stop is armed. I didnt care whether he showed me a permit anyway. Just watch his hands, empty hands wont hurt you.
 
To answer the other questions, I always assumed the guy I stopped was armed. When I was an FTO I also taught that every guy you stop is armed. I didnt care whether he showed me a permit anyway. Just watch his hands, empty hands wont hurt you.
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Unless they're NINJA HANDS!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:
 
I've yet to hear of any agency in my neck of the woods that carries condition 3. I know mine goes condition 1. We shoot .45s :D
 
We basically teach the Gunsite doctrine to all LE in Alaska. The thought of carrying in Condition 3 while actively on duty is inconceivable and a quick way to get yourself or someone else killed.

The military or at least the Army OTOH defaults to the lowest common denominator and requires by policy to carry C3 even for their civilian security contractors that have higher levels of training such as LE academies. :rolleyes:
 
Thats the OEF policy while in garrison. And its b/c numerous geniuses have shot their nuts off. Out playing with the locals its cond 1.
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Don't forget the geniuses ND'ing into the clearing barrels outside the chow hall. Fobbit Rangers...... :barf: My brother is currently in Iraq. When he came back on R&R, I asked him what kind of rifle they issued him, out of curiosity. It was, and I quote, "The Musket-16." They didn't even issue him an M-4! He has left the wire 3 times so far. Once to get to his FOB, once to leave for R&R, and once to go back. Gotta love non combat MOS's.
 
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I was an MP in the Army from 1979-1982 we were required by regulation to carry an empty chamber with a loaded magazine. After I was stabbed the first time by "One of our guys" I carried cocked and locked.

In civilian LE I have a full mag and a round in the chamber with an auto. When I carried a wheelgun I had numerous people ask if I had a round under the hammer.
 
"The Musket-16." They didn't even issue him an M-4! He has left the wire 3 times so far. Once to get to his FOB, once to leave for R&R, and once to go back. Gotta love non combat MOS's.
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I love it:

In 2003 my wife was deployed, she worked in C-2 out of Camp Doha Kuwait, running back and forth to Baghdad.


I got board and got a kuwait tourist visa and went to stay with her on Doha. When she picked me up at the airport, I looked around her SUV and asked: I thought you guys were suppose to be armed when you left camp? She says, I am, and pointed to a squirt gun on laying on the dash. Differant world over there.
 
Every time I see the question of whether or not to carry a semiauto with a loaded chamber, I think of the scene where the two Ohio Troopers unknowingly encountered Chevy and Cheyne Kehoe. You can bet your bottom dollar they're glad they weren't forced by any standards to carry their pistols with an empty chamber. When you have to react in milliseconds, adding about 1,000 of them to your preparation to fire can mean the difference between life and death.
 
Many writers don't know what they are talking about. :D

I read a book where the killer takes out his semi and inserts the cartridge into the grip. That's better even than saying clip. The same book has the author taking about how the Russian used the Ak-47 in WWII.
 
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