I have switched from carrying with a round in the chamber an hammer down on my 1911 to no round in the chamber having to rack the slide . Safety an not the safety on the gun , the odds of a accidental round going off is much higher then a situation of having to use deadly force. Be aware of your surroundings .
Question about Thumb Safety
- Thread starter JimTheTwo
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Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Let's not divert to the unchambered carry issue in this thread. Let's stay on TOPIC.
If you want to debate chambered vs. unchambered, search and refer to the endless threads on that topic.
If you want to debate chambered vs. unchambered, search and refer to the endless threads on that topic.
But the length of pull matters, too. I'm another who is comfortable with the Glock trigger in a holster or a drawer.
I have pistols with no thumb safety, frame-mounted safety, slide-mounted safety, up to fire, down to fire. They all work fine if you work with them enough to be familiar. And honestly, switching between them isn't a problem, either, with enough familiarity.
Tail Gater, I beg to differ, under a heavy shot of adrenalin, given a few different switches, and catches on concealed carry pistols, fumbles happen. That can get you killed.
I missed a 1911 Colt 45, safety catch, in an IPSC match, a pistol I had drawn and fired a thousand times! And not concealed in this instance. Pushing for maximum speed!
I missed a 1911 Colt 45, safety catch, in an IPSC match, a pistol I had drawn and fired a thousand times! And not concealed in this instance. Pushing for maximum speed!
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
I have trained with safeties all my life. However when pocketguns started to become mainstream and I started carrying, most had long double action triggers. I adjusted fine, some were excessive however.
Then this new fad of light crisp triggers came out, I said hell no. Just too unsafe period.
I found a model that had a great but strong double action and have had great success shooting for accuracy and feel secure in safely CCW/
I have been looking for Months at different guns to make a move from my LC9S. I love the gun, great quality, feels good, shoots great. But the trigger is crazy light. It really started getting to me. And mine has a safety.
But the gun has this crazy first stage free play that feels like the trigger spring is broke. The next stage is short and light. Mine is about 4.1-4.5lbs of pull. It is short before you get quickly get that BANG! Short light and crisp. Sorry, not for me.
In high stress with adrenaline flowing, your muscles naturally tightening up and a tendency to put your finger on the trigger which many cops say they do, would be extremely dangerous. Regardless, it is too light for carry, I will not do it.
Finally found a perfect gun and a perfect trigger. The Beretta Nano. No safety, designed for fast action, great size for carry. Man I love this trigger. Long, but no were near excessive. It has a definite feel, and the 7lbs of pull actually feels much lighter. Very smooth.
Had it out for the first time at the range and it ran great. Actually shoots better for me than my LC9S which I have had for years.
Yes, I would say, train with a safety, or get a nice double action. IMO.
Then this new fad of light crisp triggers came out, I said hell no. Just too unsafe period.
I found a model that had a great but strong double action and have had great success shooting for accuracy and feel secure in safely CCW/
I have been looking for Months at different guns to make a move from my LC9S. I love the gun, great quality, feels good, shoots great. But the trigger is crazy light. It really started getting to me. And mine has a safety.
But the gun has this crazy first stage free play that feels like the trigger spring is broke. The next stage is short and light. Mine is about 4.1-4.5lbs of pull. It is short before you get quickly get that BANG! Short light and crisp. Sorry, not for me.
In high stress with adrenaline flowing, your muscles naturally tightening up and a tendency to put your finger on the trigger which many cops say they do, would be extremely dangerous. Regardless, it is too light for carry, I will not do it.
Finally found a perfect gun and a perfect trigger. The Beretta Nano. No safety, designed for fast action, great size for carry. Man I love this trigger. Long, but no were near excessive. It has a definite feel, and the 7lbs of pull actually feels much lighter. Very smooth.
Had it out for the first time at the range and it ran great. Actually shoots better for me than my LC9S which I have had for years.
Yes, I would say, train with a safety, or get a nice double action. IMO.
arquebus357
New member
I'm afraid the industry is promoting safetyless handguns. Take Ruger for example, you have the RAP available with a safety and you have the "PRO" model without the safety. What red blooded American shooter isn't going to pick the PRO model ? ( I didn't and promptly loped off the right side safety lever)
I know, I know picking the safety equipped RAP make me a rank amatuer so I never take it to the range for fear of being ridiculed by the "pros". Lucky for me, I'm not addicted to the smell of burned gun powder so I just go to ranges for testing purposes. I usually get there early before the "pros" show up.
I know, I know picking the safety equipped RAP make me a rank amatuer so I never take it to the range for fear of being ridiculed by the "pros". Lucky for me, I'm not addicted to the smell of burned gun powder so I just go to ranges for testing purposes. I usually get there early before the "pros" show up.
I much prefer a safety on striker fired pistols. I don't really want to join the 'glock leg' club so a safety is a must for my carry guns. If you are interested in joining their club just do a google search of them. Tons of experienced professionals and average joes have joined because they made a simple mistake 1 out of 10000 times. But maybe you will never make one. Ever lost your keys or wallet? Ever walked into a room and forgotten why you are there?
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
Man that sounds great in a ideal world, but not reality. I would bet many people that say that and put in a situation of life and death, and your Adrenalin is red zoned and you truly think you are about to be killed, you will go to the trigger. Just a normal reaction. Your hand and fingers with tighten up from this immense fright.
"
For example, we know that even experienced, highly trained people tend to trigger check under stress. They don't squeeze the trigger with all their might, but they contact it. Very often this happens when drawing the gun on an unidentified subject. I can't tell you how many officers I've met who've relayed stories of people they would have shot -- sometimes unjustifiably -- if their trigger had been a few pounds lighter and needed half as much movement to discharge. The lighter and shorter the trigger, especially in the absence of an engaged safety, the greater the likelihood of an accident."
Light triggers and short resets seem to be the rage with the internet. I train with a safety and have my whole life. However, for carry I like a longer trigger pull and a stronger trigger. In fact just bought a new CCW 9mm to replace one that had a trigger advertised as "short light and crisp". For years now something inside my head kept saying. WARNING!!!
Found a great 9mm, actually shoot it better and much safer. What a new peace of mind it has brought.
If you feel that you have nerves made of steel, will not ever touch the trigger, and want a light trigger than great. However I would not advise anyone that does not have those nerves to do so.
And this internet JARGON of "The best safety is the one between your ears" is correct. And if that brain between your ears is smart enough to tell you to not use a light trigger without a safety or get a longer pull with a stronger trigger then listen to it.
You cannot take back a bullet.
PS I have never bought into this nonsense of riding a reset.
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And yet the great majority have never shot themselves in the leg. Can it happen? Absolutely. It can also happen with pistols with safeties. Most people that have a ND press a trigger on what they think is an empty chamber, but isn’t. In that case you’ll have disengaged the safety because you’ve decided to press the trigger. Beyond trigger finger discipline is muzzle management. Don’t let muzzles cross what you’re unwilling to destroy. You can violate one of those and still not cause an injury. It’s when you violate both that you have a problem.
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I'm afraid the industry is promoting safetyless handguns. Take Ruger for example, you have the RAP available with a safety and you have the "PRO" model without the safety. What red blooded American shooter isn't going to pick the PRO model ? ( I didn't and promptly loped off the right side safety lever)
I know, I know picking the safety equipped RAP make me a rank amatuer so I never take it to the range for fear of being ridiculed by the "pros". Lucky for me, I'm not addicted to the smell of burned gun powder so I just go to ranges for testing purposes. I usually get there early before the "pros" show up.
This seems overly defensive to me. I can’t speak to your range, but I’ve never seen someone talk to someone because they had a safety on their pistol and someone didn’t use safeties. Choose what manual of arms you prefer. There likely will be someone that judges everyone, but the majority of people care what works for them. I don’t use safeties, but all I care about on the range is if the person next to me is safe.
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In a situation where stress is high the Pull difference in the triggers is not going to “save” you from poor trigger discipline. My concern with a lack of safeties is reholstering. I do so now with my finger behind the trigger as much as it can be to prevent something snagging the trigger. Just an edge but at least I would feel the trigger start to move. Has created a callous where my finger rubs the kydex on my holster
I can see the logic, but to me having my finger in the trigger guard when going to reholster is not something I want to do. I feel like that's potentially adding more risk than you'd have otherwise. I visually inspect that the holster is clear and that my cover garment isn't caught in it when I go to reholster. On some of my striker fired pistols I'm not sure I could get my finger behind the trigger very well, and on most of my holsters the molding goes up above the trigger guard so I wouldn't be able to get the gun deep into the holster before hitting my finger (though I get you're looking for any resistance, even early on).
Pistols have a trigger guard for a reason. Something that wouldn't get caught on the trigger guard but would then get into the trigger guard and snag the trigger with enough force to discharge a trigger is a pretty rare thing. Most of the holstering NDs I have heard of are holsters where the body had become soft and the holster folds into the trigger guard and discharges the pistol, clothing getting caught in the holster as the person goes to reholster, or people reholstering without removing their finger from the trigger. I actually know of cases of the latter that have sent people to the hospital.
Pistols have a trigger guard for a reason. Something that wouldn't get caught on the trigger guard but would then get into the trigger guard and snag the trigger with enough force to discharge a trigger is a pretty rare thing. Most of the holstering NDs I have heard of are holsters where the body had become soft and the holster folds into the trigger guard and discharges the pistol, clothing getting caught in the holster as the person goes to reholster, or people reholstering without removing their finger from the trigger. I actually know of cases of the latter that have sent people to the hospital.
Training...and developing muscle memory is critical in learning how to draw and reholster a gun properly and safely. Using a holster that is designed for that particular gun and model...protects trigger and trigger guard, so you cannot slip your finger inside trigger guard when gun is holstered../..universal holsters - that might fit - should be avoided.
But done right...your trigger finger needs to remain high on the slide...and nowhere near trigger or the trigger guard as you draw or reholster. Your trigger finger does not move off the slide until gun is up & out of holster ..moved up to a low ready and rotated toward the target....after firing, finger goes back high on slide as gun comes back to low ready.
If you select a gun like a 1911 with a thumb safety ...it comes off as gun goes toward target...and goes back on as you bring gun back to low ready.
Develop good fundamentals...dry fire & practice range drills to reinforce your fundamentals. Please don't ignore your thumb safeties if you have them, use them. I would never even set a gun, like a 1911 with a hammer cocked on a bench unless thumb safety is on....and I would never have my trigger finger on trigger or near trigger guard as I set a gun on bench - or when I pick it up...( a trigger or a trigger guard - are not "handles or gripping points"....).
I carry and train weekly with a full sized 1911 every week...if you prefer guns without thumb safeties, that's fine ---- but keep your finger out of and away from trigger guards and certainly off the trigger until you intend to fire the gun.
Develop good skills...executing fundamentals " smoothly" results in faster draws and better shots on target...rushing or ignoring safeties does not make you faster.
I train weekly to a standard of " Draw to 1 shot on target at 1.85 sec...and a followup shot at 0.45 sec...".../ so draw to a double tap ( hit to center mass rectangle / with a 90 - 95% accuracy )...in under 2.3 sec...and as I approach 70 yrs old, if I can't do that, I will quit carrying...with no screwups on safe handling...or I will put my 1911's away & carry a cell phone instead !
But done right...your trigger finger needs to remain high on the slide...and nowhere near trigger or the trigger guard as you draw or reholster. Your trigger finger does not move off the slide until gun is up & out of holster ..moved up to a low ready and rotated toward the target....after firing, finger goes back high on slide as gun comes back to low ready.
If you select a gun like a 1911 with a thumb safety ...it comes off as gun goes toward target...and goes back on as you bring gun back to low ready.
Develop good fundamentals...dry fire & practice range drills to reinforce your fundamentals. Please don't ignore your thumb safeties if you have them, use them. I would never even set a gun, like a 1911 with a hammer cocked on a bench unless thumb safety is on....and I would never have my trigger finger on trigger or near trigger guard as I set a gun on bench - or when I pick it up...( a trigger or a trigger guard - are not "handles or gripping points"....).
I carry and train weekly with a full sized 1911 every week...if you prefer guns without thumb safeties, that's fine ---- but keep your finger out of and away from trigger guards and certainly off the trigger until you intend to fire the gun.
Develop good skills...executing fundamentals " smoothly" results in faster draws and better shots on target...rushing or ignoring safeties does not make you faster.
I train weekly to a standard of " Draw to 1 shot on target at 1.85 sec...and a followup shot at 0.45 sec...".../ so draw to a double tap ( hit to center mass rectangle / with a 90 - 95% accuracy )...in under 2.3 sec...and as I approach 70 yrs old, if I can't do that, I will quit carrying...with no screwups on safe handling...or I will put my 1911's away & carry a cell phone instead !
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IMO, a discharge while reholstering is pure carelessness. Theoretically, if you are reholstering, the threat has passed or round is over and there is NO reason to not be taking your time and using both hands to be sure it is done safely without discharge. But, again, that is my opinion. I'm no competitor or pro handler of firearms.
GarandTd I get your point but it seems to be there are times when you want to be able to reholster without taking that much concentration away from the events before you. In a lot of the self-defense shootings I have read the shooter actually ends up rendering aid to the injured individual in the altercation.
Edit: yes I do find it bizarre. Still it has happened enough in high profile shootings that I have wondered exactly how those circumstances play out.
Edit: yes I do find it bizarre. Still it has happened enough in high profile shootings that I have wondered exactly how those circumstances play out.
It’s not a bad idea in terms of defending yourself in court after the shooting. It shows sympathy and a lack of malice towards the victim.
I do a lot of training in classes of typically 12 or so. I do this ~6 times a year. Every class begins with a medical safety brief. We establish roles in terms of people with medical experience, assign callers to 911, and assign drivers to guide responding medical teams to the location in the event of a training accident. The first step in rendering aid is for us to secure our own firearms. You’re not helping the victim if you shoot yourself or someone else in the process. Take a second, slow down, and holster. The time it takes to do that, even at a speed where you’re being cautious, is worth it to everyone.
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This ^^^^^