Question about Iran..

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Danzig

New member
Please, don't anybody take this thread as an endorsement of Iran..it's not.

But I do have a valid question. I here constantly that Iran is a threat. Iran's president is insane. Etc, etc, etc.

Most of that information comes from the government or from sources closely affiliated with the government.

My question is this: What makes these sources any more correct about Iran than they were about Iraq? All the reasons that were were given for the invasion of Iraq turned out to be erroneous at best, lies at worst.

Most of those same accusations are being made against Iran and many of you are very quickly jumping on the bandwagon.


Wouldn't it be prudent to be a little less quick to believe what we are being told about Iran in light of the disinformation we were fed about Iraq?
 
Everything I know about Iran and the crazy president comes from the Iranian family who owned the market down the street and go back to visit regularly.

Well, them and the other Iranians I've talked to.

Wouldn't you be prudent not to assume that we're all nothing but gullible dupes of the administration and the media?

John
 
Hey John...never said that you were all gullible dupes. Please don't take my post the wrong way.

BUT....it turns out that a lot of Americans WERE gullible dupes when it came to Iraq. Only AFTER the invasion was it revealed how badly the American people were misled. I would hate to see that happen again.

EDIT: A lot of the misinformation about Iraq came from native Iraqis as well.
 
Danzig? The translations of Iran's nutty president's speeches are up on their sites, too, like Al Jazeera.

You know...the speeches where he denies the holocaust happened, where he says that Iran's nuclear program is not negotiable, and a lot more horrible things?

Straight from HIS mouth.
 
Manedwolf is correct. All you have to do is listen to him talk, and you will know he is very dangerous. Are you also aware that he was probably one of the leaders of the Iran hostage takers in the 70s?

He has said Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth. He also denied that the holocaust ever happened. These things are coming straight out of his mouth, with no spin whatsoever being placed on them by our government.
 
Dangerous to who? Is he dangerous to me? To you? To our neighbors?

Is Iran an immediate threat to the people of the United States. Not really. Will Iran be a threat in the future? Maybe.

Will Iran be a certain threat to the lives of American citizens if the United States attacks it? Without a doubt.

If we are to attack anyone because they verbally threaten us and because they may pose a legitimate threat somewhere down the road..then our nation will never be at peace.
 
Danzig...

Iran wants to destroy Israel. They call the US the "Great Satan".

The problem with a maniac with a weapon is that they WILL USE IT.

If Iran has a working nuclear weapon, you can expect one to come in on a container ship and detonate in NY harbor, Long Beach, or somewhere else. Or several places at once.

To me, that's definitely a threat!
 
Here's where I'm torn about Iran. Say they get the bomb. Lot's of countries have the bomb. Why don't they use it? Because it's MAD (mutually assured destruction). You would have to be crazy to use it. It's not in your best interest.
So, part of me says: " So what if they get the bomb, they can't use it"
The other part says: " They're so frikkin crazy, they don't care if they go down in a ball of flames, just so long as everyone else goes with them"
Kind of their version of " Kill them all, let god (allah) sort them out".
Another possibility is they are so good at using proxies to do their dirty work and keeping their hands clean, that they will try and use it thru a third party and think they can get away with it.
Could they be that stupid? Could we? Could the Israelis?
Not as cut and dry, as say Pakistan and India with the bomb.
Will they get the bomb eventually, regardless of what we or anybody does? It seems everybody who wants it, eventually does. (eg North Korea)
Should we plan on them getting the bomb, and develop strategies and policies to cope with it?
I know they say the best defense is a good offense, but don't the teams with the best defense usually win the Super Bowl?
 
Jkwas, they are right now blowing themselves up every day. Suicide bombers. They think they're going to paradise. Of course they'll use it.
 
You want an uninterrupted supply of black gold and your present lifestyle, Iran will have to be fought.

You dont want to fight them? Luddite down. Carpool. Ditch your dually for a Subaru. Ride a bike. Walk. Buy green items. Recycle. Go to a car dealership and tell the sales manager that you would really like to buy a new truck, but you want a hybrid and they dont have one. Send an email to the car companies too.

Without an oil based world economy, all these little countries are just economic jerkwaters (including my own state).


WildyourchoiceAlaska TM
 
Is Iran an immediate threat to the people of the United States. Not really.
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If Iran develops nuclear capability, they will pass that material off to terrorist groups who will use it against the USA, western Europe, or Israel.

Mutually assured destruction is not a deterrent if you believe and want the world to end in your lifetime. That is what the president of iran believes.
 
You want an uninterrupted supply of black gold and your present lifestyle, Iran will have to be fought.
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How do you figure?


Here are the top ten countries with the largest oil reserves:

Saudi Arabia (262 billion barrels)
Canada (179)
Iran (126)
Iraq (115)
Kuwait (102)
United Arab Emirates (98)
Venezuela (77)
Russia (60)
Libya (39)
Nigeria (35)

Iran represents only 11.5% among the top ten reserves countries, to say nothing of all the many other countries with reserves. Iran would certainly have less 10% of total world reserves.


Now, here are the top 14 oil producers, with millions of barrels per day production:

1. Saudi Arabia 10.37
2. Russia 9.27
3. United States 8.69
4. Iran 4.09
5. Mexico 3.83
6. China 3.62
7. Norway 3.18
8. Canada 3.14
9. Venezuela 2.86
10. United Arab Emirates 2.76
11. Kuwait 2.51
12. Nigeria 2.51
13. United Kingdom 2.08
14. Iraq 2.03

Again, Iran represents only 6.99% of the oil produced among the top 14 countries, to say nothing of all the many other countries which produce.

Normally I just dismiss your rants, but you seem to be pretty insistent, so let's examine why you think that we can't figure out a way to get by on well in excess of 93% of the world's production, and in excess of 90% of the world's reserves, along with all the many other alternate energy sources (biofuel, hydro, wind, nuclear, solar, etc.) going forward? Iran can affect the price a bit if it takes its ball and goes home, but about that worst that would do would lead to a slight recession, which could be managed with the fed, etc.

Wouldn't it be prudent to be a little less quick to believe what we are being told about Iran in light of the disinformation we were fed about Iraq?
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Lol, short answer, yes. Long answer, that is the understatement of the century. The leader of Iran is a kook, but he doesn't threaten the U.S. in any way. The sheiks hold the power in that country, not the political leader, anyway. Iran threatens Israel, but Israel is a big girl that can take care of herself.

If we are to attack anyone because they verbally threaten us and because they may pose a legitimate threat somewhere down the road..then our nation will never be at peace.
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You speak very wisely, Danzig, +1. :)
 
Read General Perraus' recent testimony to Congress. He enumerates numerous acts of war by Iran agaonst americans in Traq.
 
This isn't the first time Danzig has gone off on something like this. First off let me say that the American People were not mislead, the whole world thought that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction including most of the Democrats who are running for President. In fact most of them are on the record as saying such including Hillary Clinton and her Husband Bill Clinton.

Now Danzig is the same person who in another thread was stating that his CO committed murder against a bunch of friendlies in Iraq and yet he offered no proof of his assertions and in fact started back peddling when the heat was put on. He made a claim that he was going to report those actions, yea right.

I see a pattern from Danzig developing here and it isn't on the side of the United States. How anyone could look at his first post and not think he is defending Iran is beyond my limited comprehension skills.

Now Danzig is back making claims that our government is lying to us about Iran when in fact if you actually open your eyes and ears you can hear the iranian president himself telling the world what he has, is working on getting, and what he plans to do to Israel and the United States.

I guess the whole world is sitting back while the United States translates his speeches in order to lie to the American People as Danzig is claiming. Please get a clue on what is going on in this world and with Iran. The mere fact that you would even hint or suggest that we are lying about Iran shows how little you really know about what is going on with Iran.
 
The principle of MAD was that first-use of nuclear weapons would result in a fast and massive retaliatory strike. But this only works when you know who your attacker is.

A nuclear weapon smuggled aboard a Nigerian-registered freighter in, say a Indonesian port that is detonated in NY harbor makes it difficult to nail down the source of the weapon and the source of the attack. Was it Iran? Al-Qaedia? Hugo Chavez? Someone else?

Listen to this whack-job's own words...

(CNN Sept 12)
"We want friendship -- friendship to all. We love all nations and all human beings. Anyone who is killed, we are against it."

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad took a hard line against Israel, calling it "an invader" and saying it "cannot continue its life."

Ahmadinejad has said [Israel] should be politically "wiped off the map"...

"Israel is an invader and is cruel, and it hasn't got a united public. All other nations are against it," he said. "We do not recognize them. They are attackers and illegal."
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From other sources;
They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets.

Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury.

Remove Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations.

Last year, the Iranian leader criticized the UN Security Council and slammed its permanent members, the US and Britain, for "committing crimes" in Iraq and Afghanistan, saying that therefore the Security Council and the sanctions it imposed on his country over its nuclear plan had no legal validation.
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Here's a frightening one:
Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the Islamic countries due to their need.
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I have no doubt that the Iranian president, if he had functioning nukes, would use Al-Qaieda to smuggle them in country to kill or maim The Great Satan - us, the U.S. Even without a working nuke, providing plutonium, a highly deadly substance, for use in dirty bombs could kill thousands, seriously damage our economy and end up starting a very ugly war.
 
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Normally I just dismiss your rants, but you seem to be pretty insistent, so let's examine why you think that we can't figure out a way to get by on well in excess of 93% of the world's production, and in excess of 90% of the world's reserves, along with all the many other alternate energy sources (biofuel, hydro, wind, nuclear, solar, etc.) going forward? Iran can affect the price a bit if it takes its ball and goes home, but about that worst that would do would lead to a slight recession, which could be managed with the fed, etc.
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FF - I think this is a bit naive and simplistic.
If a product has a growing demand (like oil) and you suddenly cap its availability at 10% less than current demand, the price will climb. Next month it will climb again, then the month after that. Why? Because of a growing demand your 10% reduction today becomes a 15% reduction in 10 months and a 25% reduction in two years. Prices will increase very quickly as certain critical nation requirements must be met - home heating fuels, aviation fuel for transport & military use, diesel to move products to market by truck or train, fuel to get people to work (even to the mass transit stations).

Some of the countries might take up the slack, but many are already running close to their daily pumping limits.

Ahmadinejad is trying to modernize his airforces by buying Soviet designed aircraft. As with many modern planes, some of these are fighter-bombers. I remind you that the oil facilities of Iraq, Saudia Arabia, Kuwait and UAE are all "within range" of Iran. IF Iran withholds its oil and takes out other M.E. facilities, it would reduce world oil supplies by 28.99% within a few days. The economic impact, especially to the west, would be dramatic. We would not be facing a recession, but a serious depression.
 
Iran? Ah, those guys only want to wipe out Israel. And provide support to terrorists in Iraq. And maintain support of terrorist groups worldwide. And control Iraq (and Iraq's oil) if we cut and run.

Nah, we shouldn't worry about 'em. Not at all.
 
If we are to attack anyone because they verbally threaten us and because they may pose a legitimate threat somewhere down the road..then our nation will never be at peace.
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Jacking the world up with concessions-for-nukes is in my mind more than a verbal threat.

I find the idea of negotiating with thugs such as the Iranian government akin to standing there with your Mossberg and the thug walking up with his Lorcin L25 and demanding money. Huh… should I hand over my wallet and have him come back next week with the GLOCK or Sig that he bought with my money? Nah… think I’ll just kill him now!
 
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