Question about Handguns

K

Kate B.

Inactive
I am new here, and I have a question.

A little intro first. I grew up shooting soda cans with a .22 in my grandparents backyard, so I am no stranger in the world of firearms.

But now, I am a writer and I am writing a novel in which a character is shot to death. It is one bullet in the chest, through the heart. The character dies (obviously), but I would like to know more about the specifics of buying a weapon, which handguns are easier to obtain in a store, etc.

I am sixteen, so me walking into a gun shop and asking very detailed questions would raise a few eyebrows, so maybe someone here could be of some help to me.

So my questions are:

1. What handguns are more easily obtained than others? (Like a Smith & Wesson SW1911 might be easier to purchase than a 1940s Luger)

2. If you are of legal age, can you walk into a gun shop and purchase a firearm such as a handgun with a photo ID, but no gun permit?

3. Can you buy weapons in one state if your ID is from another? (Like a man from Delaware, with a Delaware ID, buying a gun in North Carolina)

4. I know the caliber of the bullet would affect blood loss, but to what degree?

5. And overall the specifics of buying any sort of handgun, the cost, procedure, anything to that effect.

I may have more, but I think that should do for now. I hope my writer's status has not put any of you off. I appreciate the time you put into reading my post and possibly into an answer.


-Kate
 
1. What handguns are more easily obtained than others? (Like a Smith & Wesson SW1911 might be easier to purchase than a 1940s Luger)

There's a "sweet" spot in the market where a LOT of guns are manufactured at a certain price point. It's between $400 and $700. There are a LOT less SW1911's than there are Springfield XD's being made, because the market supports a certain price/demand function.

As far as easily obtained... used guns are easier to get than new ones, since all new ones go through a background check called NICS. Used guns sold via private party transactions (legal in MOST states, but not all) require no background check.

So, the "easiest" gun to get, in my opinion, is a used full sized Glock.

2. If you are of legal age, can you walk into a gun shop and purchase a firearm such as a handgun with a photo ID, but no gun permit?

Depends on the state. Most states do not have "gun permits." Only a few do.

3. Can you buy weapons in one state if your ID is from another? (Like a man from Delaware, with a Delaware ID, buying a gun in North Carolina)

Long guns, yes. Handguns must be purchased in your state of residence. There's also other things to quibble about that vary from state to state (such as supposed "assault weapons" in one state versus another one), but the general rule is long guns yes, handguns no.

4. I know the caliber of the bullet would affect blood loss, but to what degree?

You just asked a big can of worms. But, basically... when it comes to damage to 2-legged targets, with modern hollowpoint ammunition, 9mm=.357sig=.40S&W=.45acp=.357mag=.38special+p=.44special, with very little variation between them all.

The effect of a typical gunshot with between 300 and 500 ft/lbs of energy and ~14 inches of penetration is roughly the same. All the above cartridges provide that penetration with that energy level.

Bigger handgun cartridges (.44 magnum, .454 casull, .475 linebaugh, .500 S&W magnum, etc) will give enhanced penetration, greater expansion of a hollowpoint due to increased velocity, and in general make a bigger mess of the target.

5. And overall the specifics of buying any sort of handgun, the cost, procedure, anything to that effect.

Basic procedure:

Go into a gun store. Take a look at what they have, and examine your needs. Is it for concealed carry every day? A recreational target gun? For protecting home? Hiking in the deep woods or mountains where 4-legged critters like to eat people? Hunting?

Handle various guns in the category you are looking for. Make a decision based upon price, comfort, cost of additional accessories (magazines, holsters, ammo, etc). Fill out the NICS background check form. Store employee calls NICS and does a check on you. If approved, you pay right there and walk out with the gun. The "typical" price of a "typical" self defense gun is between $500 and $600 after sales tax. Holster, ammo and a couple extra magazines (or other accessories for other types of guns) will have you spending about $750 on a first gun during your first transaction.
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Hope the above helps.
 
I've got some time,,, I'll give it a shot,,,,,

1) S&W, Ruger, Colt, Taurus, Rossi, and Charter Arms are all examples of very easily obtained revolvers,,,
I'm not very knowledgeable about semi-automatic pistols so I'll defer to someone else on that.

2) Not every state requires a "gun permit" for purchasing a handgun,,,
In fact if I have this correct, those states are in the minority.
I can walk into a gun shop in Oklahoma and walk out with a handgun in about 20 minutes.
The law can vary for each state so you need to research specifically for the state your character will be in.

3) Again this will vary from state to state,,,
A person from Texas can buy a long gun (rifle) in oklahoma with no problem,,,
I am not sure if this applies to handguns as well.
A person from Indiana (which requires a permit to own guns) can not buy a gun in Oklahoma.

I say this because there is a big sign in my local Wal-Mart showing who,,,
(by state driver's license) can buy a rifle in Oklahoma.

4) You said your character dies from a gunshot to the heart?,,,
In that case even a .22 would cause death, eventually, from bleed out.
A .38 special (maybe the most common cartridge in the world) would make a bigger hole in the heart causing faster bleed out.
A .357 Magnum would more than likely destroy the heart causing faster (maybe instantaneous) death.
A .44 Magnum would almost certainly destroy the heart making death not from bleed out but destruction of the heart muscle.
The .38 Special could do the same, but probably not.
This is all very speculative but well within the realm of possibility.

5) When you purchase a handgun, at minimum you fill out a federal form (the number escapes me) that the dealer (who will have a Federal Firearms License) uses.
He (or she) calls in that information and an instant background check lets the dealer know whether the buyer can make the purchase.
This is federal and does not vary from state to state.

After the instant background check okays the buyer then state laws kick in,,,
Some states have a ten day wait, some call it a cooling off period,,,
In some states you can leave with the handgun right then.

Other states may have some other requirement I don't know of,,,
Do specific research on the laws for the state your character is set in.

New revolvers (normal ones a person would carry around) range in price from $350 to $1,000 depending on the brand and specific model

Good used S&W's and Rugers can easily be had from $300 to $600 range,,,
Taurus, Rossi, & Charter Arms will be somewhat less,,,

Colt revolvers often go for a bit more,,,
Some people believe they are more collectible.
I don't think Colt makes any modern revolvers any more.

If I am wrong about this there will be dozens of irate Colt lovers correcting me in mere moments.

Smith & Wesson, Colt, and Ruger are your upper tier handguns,,,
No group of gun enthusiasts will agree which is the best.

Taurus, Rossi, and Charter Arms are considered to be second tier handguns,,,
There will be plenty of people who disagree with me on this opinion,,,
But in general I think this is a fair statement I am making.

So, good luck on your novel,,,
I wrote one at 15 that never got published,,,
Maybe I should give writing another try, just for kicks.

By the way,,,
I don't think a gun store would hassle you for asking,,,
Maybe for taking up their time but not because you are underage to buy a gun.

Politely ask your questions of them,,,
What can they do but refuse to answer.
 
Thanks for all the help. And I have a few more questions.

1. A Glock 19. Easy to locate and purchase?

2. In my book, the man is a resident of Maryland, with a Maryland ID, but kills the other character in Virginia. Could he buy the firearm in Virginia or would he have to have purchased it in Maryland?

3. What caliber does a Glock 19 use?

4. How many bullets does the magazine hold?

5. How much does one weigh roughly? (I can't find this online, or at least where I've looked.)

6. Is it easy to conceal a Glock 19 if it is just in the waistband of someone's jeans?

I have no idea about the size of the weapon, how it shoots, how loud it is, so any info would be helpful and greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,

Kate
 
http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm

9mm Glocks like the G19 are one of the most common auto pistols one can find in gun store.
It shoots 9mm ammunition. The thing people load into the "magazine" is called a "cartridge". The thing that comes out of the barrel is the "bullet". The thing that automatically ejects from the slide as the weapon cycles the next round from the magazine you can call empty casings.
15 round mags are standard.
21 oz roughly unloaded. Loaded with a full mag 30 oz.
Its recommended one not "slip" a Glock pistol in the waistbelt without a holster. An inside (or outside) the waistband holster that covers the trigger is recommended due to the lack of manual safety and 5.5 lbs trigger. They conceal well for most medium and large framed men. If your character is smaller lightly built in stature consider the smaller Glock 26 for better concealability. But most any handgun can be concealed pretty well with a light jacket or a collared open buttoned shirt over a T-shirt.
Any firearm 9mm and up is gonna be plenty loud.
 
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For technical details, here is the scoop from Glock:

http://www.glock.com/english/glock19_tech.htm

A 9mm is pretty loud, and usually a shot fired in a house or apartment will be heard outside or in an ajacent apartment unless there is a lot of other noise masking it. A shot fired in a room will temporarily deafen anyone in the room. (Forget giving your character a silencer - silencers (or sound suppressors) are rigidly controlled under federal law; they can be obtained, but not easily, except in fiction written by ignorant folks.)

Now to your scenario. If your character is a resident of MD, he could not buy a pistol legally from anyone in VA. To have bought it legally in MD, where even individual sales must go through a licensed dealer, he would also have had to fill out a long federal form and an even longer form for submission to the MSP.

He would then have had to pass not only the federal records check (the National Instant Check System (NICS), run by the FBI), but also the Maryland State Police check, (plus have paid $10 for the latter) and waited at least seven days to pick up the gun after buying it. Needless to say, people with criminal records don't bother; they steal guns or obtain them illegally on the black market.

If it is not essential to the story, it might be easier if he just has the gun, obtained sometime in the past. (Of course in stories in the Washington Post, bad guys just walk into any gun shop and buy machineguns, tanks, and nuclear weapons, no questions asked, no paperwork. But that is in the Brady gang's land of lies, not the real world.)

HTH

Jim
 
All of this has been amazingly helpful.

The character does not have a criminal record, so I am not worried about that. But given the way the stroy will play out, I need him to purchase the gun in the story, so the information on buying a weapon has been extremely appreciated.

The character takes a bullet to the heart so there's not much anyone can do. So, given the nature of the gun and the caliber of the bullet (the character is shot from a distance of approximately 7-12 feet), how much damage would you estimate? This might not be a question that you know the answer to, and I can always ask a doctor, but I was hoping someone might know.

Silencers are too much hassle. But the temporarily deafen part, how long would they be deafened? There are other characters around (the character is not the smartest guy in the world and shoots the other character in front of several people). Are we talking several seconds of shock, or minutes of confusion?

Thanks to everybody,

Kate
 
If a 9mm goes off within a few feet of you, your ears are going to be ringing for several minutes. (Ronald Reagan was partially deaf from a blank pistol shot near his ear when he was filming a western movie.)

Damage? Well a 9mm bullet through the heart will almost certainly kill the victim (there have been cases where it didn't, but those are exceptions). Further, it will probably exit out his back with a string of blood and pieces of flesh and bone. Where it will stop depends on your story.

A shot in the heart will immediately stop the heart, and there is usually little blood since there is an instant drop in blood pressure. But a bullet will itself create some hydrostatic pressure and blood will spurt from the wound in the front and from the exit wound in the back. If the character were dressed in a dark suit, and the bullet were less powerful (say a .22), the wounds might not even be evident at first glance, but with a 9mm, they will be pretty obvious.

In addition, a shot in the heart from the front will go through the sternum or the rib cage and pieces of bone and cartilage will also be blown into the chest cavity and into the heart, adding to the wound effect. Most people think expanding bullets cause much larger wounds, but that is not really the case with bullets at pistol velocities.

Jim
 
Just because someone is hit in the heart doesn't necessarily mean he will be instantly incapacitated or "stopped". There have been many real life incidents with police and military where the perp or enemy combatant's heart has been "blown away" and he is still able to fight long enough to cause harm. It doesn't matter they were shot with 9mm or a much more powerful 7.62 rifle round. Humans can be incredibly difficult to stop. Some people get a "flesh wound" with a .22 and they crumple up and are ready to die. Some people get shot multiple times with a rifle and they still keep fighting. Adrenaline and just the willingness to fight play a factor.

What does create immediate stops is hitting them in the CNS (Central Nervous System) which is the brain and spinal cord.

If he is shot with a jacketed hollowpoint (JHP) bullet there is a fairly good chance the bullet will expand causing more damage to whatever it hits and stop somewhere in the body. If shot with a full metal jacket (FMJ) bullet there is a higher chance the bullet will exit the body but leave a smaller trail of damage through the body. This is why police and many civilians prefer to use JHP loads. They are more effective and there is lesser chance it will shoot through someone and possibly hit someone else unintentionally.
 
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1. A Glock 19. Easy to locate and purchase?

2. In my book, the man is a resident of Maryland, with a Maryland ID, but kills the other character in Virginia. Could he buy the firearm in Virginia or would he have to have purchased it in Maryland?

3. What caliber does a Glock 19 use?

4. How many bullets does the magazine hold?

5. How much does one weigh roughly? (I can't find this online, or at least where I've looked.)

6. Is it easy to conceal a Glock 19 if it is just in the waistband of someone's jeans?

I have no idea about the size of the weapon, how it shoots, how loud it is, so any info would be helpful and greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,

Kate
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_pistol
 
Actually silencers are easy to obtain, as long as you live in one of the 37 states (like VA) that allow them. Any citizen who can own a gun can own a silencer as long as their state allows. There are just four forms (including the personal check) to fill out, and approval is pretty much a rubber stamp as long as you are not a crazy felonious wife beater that renounced his/her citizenship or got a BCD from the military. It takes about four to six months for approval now though.

A suppressed Glock 9mm shot indoors will be loud; loud enough to cause ringing in the ears. It will be more cumbersome to use however. Harder to conceal and less reliable unless used with a recoil booster.

Anyone who can operate a lathe (easy to learn) can make a good silencer. Anyone willing to commit murder will not lose sleep over evading the tax on silencers either. Lucky for the rest of us, almost all criminals seem to resist the notion of using a silencer to commit violent crime.

Ranb
 
If the gun was fired in a large multi story building, such as a hospital, bank, office building, etc, would the shot be loud enough to be heard several floors above and below the shot?

How much of a recoil is there when firing a single shot?

If the bullet hits the heart, could the person possibly be knocked unconscious if death is not instant?

And lastly, does anyone know the force with which the bullet would hit its target from 7-12 feet away? (Pounds per square inch or something like that)

Thanks again,

Kate
 
.....So my questions are:

1. What handguns are more easily obtained than others? (Like a Smith & Wesson SW1911 might be easier to purchase than a 1940s Luger)

No, a handgun is a handgun is a firearm. You can't buy a firearm without a background check.

2. If you are of legal age, can you walk into a gun shop and purchase a firearm such as a handgun with a photo ID, but no gun permit?

It depends on the state, some states have no permit to purchase and handgun while some like Nebraska and Illinois do. Also see my response to question number five.

3. Can you buy weapons in one state if your ID is from another? (Like a man from Delaware, with a Delaware ID, buying a gun in North Carolina)

No. Not handguns. You must receive the handgun from a Federal Firearms License holder in your state of residence. You can buy a long gun(shotgun or rifle) in another state. Though you can purchase a handgun from someone in another state, you must take delivery of it in your own state from an FFL.

4. I know the caliber of the bullet would affect blood loss, but to what degree?

In small handgun calibers blood loss is relatively minimal unless a major organ, blood vessel, or artery is hit by the bullet.

5. And overall the specifics of buying any sort of handgun, the cost, procedure, anything to that effect.

In a state with no permit requirements to purchase a handgun you simply go by federal law. When you go to buy any firearm you take your ID and fill out ATF Form 4473(you can do an internet search on this form). On the form there is much information filled out by the FFL holder, including whether you're buying a handgun or a long gun(shotgun or rifle). After you fill out the form your state bureau of investigation will run a background check as well as the federal government running their own background check. The entire process could take as little as 15 minutes or as long as a few hours. There's a possibility that something in your background doesn't disqualify you from buying a firearm, but the people doing the background check aren't quite sure so you get delayed for a few days then they tell you if you passed or were denied. If you were denied you can ask for an appeal form from the FFL holder, then contact the ATF to clear it up or ask exactly why you were denied. They can clear it up on their records or if your identity is very similar to another person who can't buy a gun they can issue you a number that you put on the 4473 form the next time you buy a firearm, but that process can take up to 6 months.

I may have more, but I think that should do for now. I hope my writer's status has not put any of you off. I appreciate the time you put into reading my post and possibly into an answer.

You're welcome!

-Kate
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I can tell you that I own two handguns, .40SW Glocks that cost approximately $575 each after taxes. Each time I did the background check it took 15 minutes flat, probably partly because I put my Social Security Number(optional) on the form which made it easy for the government agencies to know I was not someone else with a similar identity. I also bought each of them in the middle of the week, on the weekends or if there's a gun show going on in your state it can take hours.

If the gun was fired in a large multi story building, such as a hospital, bank, office building, etc, would the shot be loud enough to be heard several floors above and below the shot?

Absolutely. Some buildings are very heavily constructed but even so you should be able to hear it at least one floor away.

How much of a recoil is there when firing a single shot?

A pistol that shoots small cartridges like 22LR won't recoil much at all, the gun may barely move. A larger handgun like a 500SW can recoil so much it can come backward and smack the shooter in the head if they're not strong enough to keep that from happening. A rule of thumb is that the bigger the gun is, the less recoil there will be than a smaller gun that shoots the same cartridge. Though some cartridges are so powerful that the only way to really soften the recoil is to shoot it from a rifle, like the .44 magnum can be shot from revolvers or lever-action rifles.

If the bullet hits the heart, could the person possibly be knocked unconscious if death is not instant?

Yes. If blood pressure drastically drops because the heart has lost blood pressure, unconsciousness is nearly instant. Though if the heart is hit by a bullet in any significant way, it won't be more than a second or two before the person is clinically deceased.

And lastly, does anyone know the force with which the bullet would hit its target from 7-12 feet away? (Pounds per square inch or something like that)

A 180gr .40SW cartridge will have a muzzle energy of around 400ft/lbs and 377ft/lbs at 25 yards. Though because the bullet is going so fast most of that energy is used to "cut" right through the target. The slower the bullet goes, the more energy is delivered per square inch. Basically, a fast bullet will cut a clean hole right through a target. A slow bullet will "tear" though a target.

Thanks again,

Kate
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I feel I should say that people who own guns for the purpose of self defense do not mean to kill another person when acting in self defense. They mean to use the least amount of force necessary to stop a threat from being presented to their own life. Sometimes the least amount of force that's reasonable in a given situation is lethal force. The very instant that a threat of death or severe bodily injury is no longer being presented by the attacker, you stop using lethal force. The attacker should live to face their day in court and a long time in a jail cell, but by the very nature of using lethal force that's not likely to happen.
 
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Yes that also occurred to me, but the author stated a plausible reason for wanting to know information she could've easily obtained through internet searches. If the author is contemplating committing a crime and asking questions like this, I don't think they'd be very successful in doing so anyway.
 
I know you guys are trying to be helpful, but a new user comes here... signs up using a females name (more likely to get guys to help them)... then claims to be writing a book and asks basically how to buy a handgun and commit a crime, that crime being murder.

Heck, for all you know Kate might be an anti-gun journalist who is writing an article about how easy it is to join a gun forum, ask for details on how to commit a murder and then is inundated with information freely given without so much as a question about her motives.

But then I tend to be paranoid.
 
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