Put Them In Order: Fastest Shooting Guns

I

IanS

New member
Which designs are innately the best for shooting CONTROLLED double or triple taps? Some would argue that is the most important reason for choice of sidearm. By default they would be 9mm due to lower muzzle flip and felt recoil. (Guess I'm out of luck since I only shoot .40 and .45 these days)

Note:
1. Personal experience is always good
2. 9mm and up rule. It must be a "combat" or "fighting" cartridge
3. Any model, make, caliber I omitted is of course welcome.
4. No selective fire/full auto pistols like the Glock 18, Beretta 93-R, or HK VP70. Talk about spray and pray:rolleyes:

Anyways, here how I rank them:

1. HK P7/M8,M13: gas operated, low bore axis, sweet single action trigger. (Of course things can get real hot if you push this thing!)

2. GLOCK 17/19: low bore axis, fast action/reset trigger

3. Beretta Cougar Model 8000: rotating barrel

4. Full Size 1911 chambered in 9mm

5. Walther P99: no personal experience, just a hunch :)

6. Browning/FN High Power

7. HK USP9

8. Ruger/Colt/S&W full size .357 loaded with .38s
 
The fastest-shooting gun from a mechanical standpoint would be the revolver, without a doubt. The time between shots is only limited by the speed of the trigger finger, since you don't have to wait for a slide to cycle. That said, fast double-taps (and speed-shooting in general) with a wheelgun tend to require much more skill on the part of the shooter.

Of the guns you've listed, your average shooter could probably double-tap fastest with the P7M8 or the Glock 17 thanks to the very low bore axis. The P7 series can perform a neat double-tap trick that no oother pistol can do: the squeeze-cocker double-tap, performed by keeping the trigger pulled after the first shot and merely decocking and cocking the gun again with your fingers quickly. That's more a "Stupid P7 Trick" than a practical or essential skill, though.

I could probably crank out double-taps fastest with the P7M8, personally.

After that:

Glock 17/19
Walther P99
1911 full-size
Browning HP
Beretta Cougar
HK USP
.357 wheelgun
 
I would definitely say the P7M8. It has less muzzle flip than the Glock17/19/26, USPF 9mm, SIG 228, HK P9S Combat 9mm, and just about every other 9mm I've shot.
 
OPINION NOT REQUIRED

This question has been answered by actual practice; 1911-style has fastest reset, with Glock close behind.
 
The claim of revolvers, Glocks and 1911 are all pretty surprising. I have all three. A finger on a DA revolver trigger can't cycle the action as fast as an auto, the excellent Glock is a little light to prevent muzzle flip and the 1911 recoils too much. Here's what I've experienced shooting pins and IDPA:

P7M8-incredible. Switched from the G19 to this for IDPA and immediately shaved seconds. Sometimes I'll get tight pairs without conciously pulling the trigger twice.

P9S-low axis and negligable recoil. Light trigger.

Baby Eagle- Heavy frame, lighter slide and relatively low axis made this one run pretty fast. Trigger hampered that somewhat. While the longer dustcover of the Baby gives an advantage, same should be true of the similar CZ-75 and steel frame Witness pistols.

Steyr M- Now that's a low bore axis.

The USP recoil reduction system works so well I would at least mention it as a good possibility.

The following are all rare but they're design leads me to speculate/believe they might perform very well:

Benelli B-76 9mm. Fixed barrel, low bore.

Steyr GB. Fixed, low barrel, heavy and long overall.

Metaba auto revolver. Barrel feeds off lowest cylinder.

Mauser Broomhandle/Luger. Both guns have low bores and the parts that cycle most are low mass. Good triggers.

The key is a lower recoil round, heavy frame, lighter cycling parts, low bore access and light trigger. If the weapon doesn't start out with a significant combination of these, it's unlikely it could be very fast for accurate and fast shooting. Doesn't mean you can't be fast with something else, but think how fast you would be with the right design.
 
Hi, Handy,

Actually, a revolver can be fired faster than an autoloader, though not everyone can do it. McGivern fired five shots in 2/5 of a second (and hit the target), and that is faster than a .45 slide can operate.

Of course, McGivern was the ultimate, not the average, but other people have come close to his records.

Jim
 
You mean guns shoot without any input of the shooter? Wow. I'd say the fastest shooting gun is Rob Leatham's. It has its own soundtrack and everything. Where can I get one of those?
 
Jim,

I'm following what your saying. However, if we're talking about production guns rather than trick guns with super slicked actions and the minimum springs for function, I don't think even Ed could make a revolver with combat loads and a more normal action shoot faster, on target, than he could the right auto (I wouldn't necessarily say the slow-cycling 1911 is "right"). I believe that's the spirit of the topic.

As to slide speed and such; Ed is shooting 5 rounds in 2/5's of a second, or 750 rounds per minute. Most heavy machine guns fire 600 rounds or more a minute. Most submachine guns go much faster, at least 1000 rpm. So if a Glock 18 has a cyclic rate of 1200 rpm, or 8 shots in 2/5's of a second, how could the slide be cycling slower than Ed's revolver cylinder? Obviously slide speeds on many guns are more than fast enough to let a fast finger like Ed to work the same magic with an auto. And for probably more than 5 shots.

While a complete waste of ammo, a P7 will "full auto" with the right timing. More interesting, it will go nearly that fast in a small circle at 7 yards. And not by a trick shooter; by you and me.
 
Handy ,

. A finger on a DA revolver trigger can't cycle the action as fast as an auto
Click to expand...

I beg to differ.

Jerry Miculek fired eight shots to a target in one second from a DA Smith. He also put eight shots on four targets (2 per target) in 1.06 seconds from a DA Smith. The same day he fired six shots from a DA Smith, reloaded (moon clips .45 ACP), fired six more shots in 2.99 seconds.

The way I see it, the auto's speed is limited by the function of the action while the DA revolver is restricted only by the speed of the shooters trigger finger.

Shake
 
Shake,

We must have been typing at the same time, so you'll be looking at the math right now.

More importantly, could YOU fire combat loads in a smallish group with any revolver faster than any combat auto? Even with alot of practice? That's what I thought we were talking about.

I know I can burn 8 shots in less than a second. I might even be able to keep them on the same target. The interesting part here is that I suck and rarely practice between IDPA shoots, and Jerry shoots for a living.

I can't think of ever seeing numbers for how fast Leatham can shoot 8 shots in an auto. It must only be a big deal when someone does it with a revolver. Wonder why.
 
Handy ,

No reason to get huffy again over a difference of opinion.

Your math compares the cyclic rate of Ed McGivern with a full auto? How does that work. You have to add in the mechanics of the shooter as well. Also, just because you posted the math doesn't mean it is gospel truth as you seem to think.

I'd be interested in seeing you empty eight shots from an auto faster than Miculek can shoot eight from his DA revo.

Shake
 
A revolver can be fired very fast or very accurate very few and do both at the same time. A auto can do both much more easily.
PAT
 
I didn't think I got huffy. If you're speaking of the "YOU" I put in there, I was attempting to focus this topic back to the largely mechanical question that it started as, rather than talking about the powers of the very few. That "YOU" was the average or better shooter, doing their best, as you would. So, asking in a reasonable way, do you think you could ever shoot a revolver as fast as a fast shooting semi-auto?

My cyclic comparison was just to demonstrate that slide cycle wasn't a constraint as Jim earlier had stated. I didn't mean that a shooter could do that semi-auto, rather that the individual cycles of an auto pistol are so fast that they leave plenty of opportunity for the trigger pull. So the "Ed cycle" is 5 shots in 2/5 of a second, or one cycle in .08 of a second. For the Glock to cycle at 1200 rpm, it's individual cycle time is .05 per shot, including lock time. A semi auto shooter could keep up with Ed by tripping the sear in the left over .03 of a second, since sear movement is alot easier than revolving the cyclinder and cocking the hammer. Revolvers combine cycle and trigger time, semi autos divide it into two stages, but those combined stages can be just as mechanically fast as the fastest revolver.

Shake, I think our mildly heated Beretta debate might be coloring how you read my posts. There's no antipathy, I find the principle interesting and the argument brings out fresh ideas.
 
Guys, tell me more about this "P7 machine gun" trick! I tried to do this only once by staging the trigger which resulted in a neat 2 round burst. :D

I can shoot my P7M8 the fastest with a 0.16 sec split time when double tapping into a target. If we speak about IPSC standard class raceguns (no comps, weights, optics) IMO the bull barreled 9mm STI is the fastest...
 
SEMIauto requires time to actuate the mechanism plus the time required by the shooter to pull the trigger.....for each shot.

Revolver speed is governed by the speed of the shooter. One less step in the equation.

Sam
 
a revovler in the hands of a very skilled shooter, such as Jerry. Anyone who doesn't beleive this, just drag out your timer and try to crank 8 in less than one second... As far as Ed, the accuracy of the timers in those days is highly questionable, even modern timers can pickup more than one shot when they are too close. Talk is just talk, but timer results are data.
 
Don't know what is really the fastest but if you learn the Glock trigger trick of keeping the trigger pre-staged it is pretty friggin fast. All of you Glockers know that there is some take up before the crisp pull to fire. You can with practice eliminate that take up between rounds and fire pretty quick. Does take some practice but it is quite effective once you get the knack.
 
All I know is....

The "Bill Drill" challenges the shooter to start with hands at their side, draw and place six rounds in the 8" center of an IDPA target at 7 yards, as fast as possible without dropping any points.

With my SA 1911-A1 9mm 124gr. ammo, I can do this in around 2.3 seconds pretty regular.

With my S&W 4" Model 19, with 158 gr. +P ammo, I can do 2.00-2.05 most of the time.

Of course I have been a revolver shooter since Moses was an apprentice shipwright. :D
 
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