Put the beast to bed (.45 vs .357 .... bonus .45 vs .40)
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Not to mention small rounds at high speed and small surface area are going to leave some nice little dents.... Large slow rounds are going to expend the energy over a wider area... I personally however dont have any friends that use FMJ for CCW, everyone I personally know uses JHP or similar designs.
Further most humans are flesh, bone and blood and not steel.... Plenty of evidence to show 9mm, 40, and 45 are effective.... Your test does not in any way replicate bone and flesh... but it is your test...
If you really want the best of all worlds go get a 460 Rowland kit and have it fitted and end the arguement once and for all... 44 Magnum power in a semi auto... Fast and heavy beats Fast and light at equal speeds..
Further most humans are flesh, bone and blood and not steel.... Plenty of evidence to show 9mm, 40, and 45 are effective.... Your test does not in any way replicate bone and flesh... but it is your test...
If you really want the best of all worlds go get a 460 Rowland kit and have it fitted and end the arguement once and for all... 44 Magnum power in a semi auto... Fast and heavy beats Fast and light at equal speeds..
myshoulderissore
New member
Wait a moment, here... Tom Servo, what is your job? I want to shoot meat!
Glockstar .40
New member
if your intention was to "put the beast to bed" i think all ya did was feed it some crack cuz this beast aint sleepin!
There is one useful bit of information from this that we already knew. Small diameter, high energy rounds are better at penetrating hard barriers. For law enforcement, that is much more of a consideration, imo, than it is for the rest of us. As far as these rounds effectiveness on soft tissue, it all comes down to the combination of how much energy the round has and how effectively it can transfer that energy to the target. That varies from load to load and firearm to firearm, not just between different calibers. Of course, all of this takes a backseat to shot placement.
In the end, pick what you are comfortable with and can shoot well, choose a good load for it, and practice as much as you can.
In the end, pick what you are comfortable with and can shoot well, choose a good load for it, and practice as much as you can.
I guess if I met the Black Knight I would wish I had 357.
On the other hand they pretty much quick doing that some time ago.
If I meet a guy with body armor then its going to be head and limbs. I will take the 9mm and the laser there (nothing against iron sights, just too old to shoot them with that degree of accuracy).
As for putting anything to rest, well about 20 pages of comments and still going. Pretty restless rest.
On the other hand they pretty much quick doing that some time ago.
If I meet a guy with body armor then its going to be head and limbs. I will take the 9mm and the laser there (nothing against iron sights, just too old to shoot them with that degree of accuracy).
As for putting anything to rest, well about 20 pages of comments and still going. Pretty restless rest.
We are not worried about energy transfer. We are interested in
1. Penetrating (enough to get all the way through regardless of angle and substance (bone etc)
2. Expansion if possible though I will take just the holes and FMJ as done well for a long time
Energy is part of the formula to get penetration, but bullet design pays a huge part (ergo 9mm now being as good as the rest).
I will to about +9,9999 on shot placement.
Both of those things are a product of transferring energy effectively. I am not talking about some theory regarding some sort of shock value. I am talking about doing damage to the target and energy is obviously required to do that. It is also why hollow points are more effective. They transfer more energy effectively which is to say that energy results in more damage. The more of a bullets energy we can transfer to the target in the form of damage, the better.
I dont know if its been mentioned yet...
Nobody should be shooting thin metal like that with any sort of jacketed bullet.
The jacket and lead can separate and the jacket can come back at you.
Years ago my right forearm caught a 45 jacket shooting metal just like this.
Go with thicker metal so that it doesnt bend and make curves.
Angle the metal a bit so that the round & debris is deflected left or right a bit.
On the subject...
After shooting lots of junk laying around at the range it doesnt suprise me at all that the 40 gets further into the steel than the 45.
Not sure why, but all of my .40 Federal FMJ practice ammo seems just as hot as my Winchester PDX1 SD ammo. That scenario is not the same in 45.
Nobody should be shooting thin metal like that with any sort of jacketed bullet.
The jacket and lead can separate and the jacket can come back at you.
Years ago my right forearm caught a 45 jacket shooting metal just like this.
Go with thicker metal so that it doesnt bend and make curves.
Angle the metal a bit so that the round & debris is deflected left or right a bit.
On the subject...
After shooting lots of junk laying around at the range it doesnt suprise me at all that the 40 gets further into the steel than the 45.
Not sure why, but all of my .40 Federal FMJ practice ammo seems just as hot as my Winchester PDX1 SD ammo. That scenario is not the same in 45.
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223 shooter
New member
My conclusion is that this is the kind of test you might see on "The Bubba Channel" So , shooting a steel plate is the basis on which to judge what kind of gun to carry
:. Reminds me of a article I read some years ago in a Gun Digest where steel plates were shot with a varmint rifle and a 458 Winchester Magnum. The varmint rifle actually penetrated plates that the 458 could not.
Yet if faced with a charge from an irate Elephant how many are going to pick the steel plate penetrating varmint rifle over the 458?
I did some backyard ballistic testing myself a couple weeks ago. I was trying to see if I could punch a whole through a 1/8" steel plate with an assortment of hyper velocity 22lr rounds (I was bored). None penetrated although the Remington viper came close. There's no doubt in my mind that these hyper velocity 22lr rounds would easily penetrate the 1/16" steel plate the OP was testing with. Does that make the 22lr superior to the 45ACP?.... Hell no!
Then I shot it it with a CCI 20 grain FMJ 17hmr and it not only penetrated the 1/8" steel plate but passed completely through the phonebook behind it before flattening and welding itself to the 1" steel plate behind the phonebook. Does that mean the 17HMR is superior to the 45?.... Oh hell no!
I could see someone getting shot with that tiny 17 caliber bullet and having it pass completely through them without even knowing they've been shot.
Then I shot it it with a CCI 20 grain FMJ 17hmr and it not only penetrated the 1/8" steel plate but passed completely through the phonebook behind it before flattening and welding itself to the 1" steel plate behind the phonebook. Does that mean the 17HMR is superior to the 45?.... Oh hell no!
I could see someone getting shot with that tiny 17 caliber bullet and having it pass completely through them without even knowing they've been shot.
Lost Sheep
New member
Once we get enough pages, we can stack'em, soak'em and shoot'em instead of phone books and see how that compares.RC20 said:
This beast never sleeps, naps occasionally and will never die as long as we shoot projectiles.
I wonder if we could find any records of arguments between shooters of longbows vs crossbows? That debate probably raged until gunpowder took over the fields of battle, ya think?
It is entertaining, though, and occasionally educational.
Lost Sheep
toppermost
New member
Hey, no skin off of my... um nose....
The more people I know are walking around with compact .45's, the safer I will feel with my G23.
Go for it!
The more people I know are walking around with compact .45's, the safer I will feel with my G23.
Go for it!
toppermost
New member
are you crazy? do you know how dangerous it is to shoot steel plates? 