Purchasing Cap n Ball revolver, need advice!

I'm not going to cut you down George until you deserve it.:D I've seen the difference between petro and vegetable oil fouling myself. I don't need to read a book to figure things out. I've been shooting bp for 40 years now.

I am sorry to burst any bubbles. There is no historical USE even, of oils or greases used 150 years ago, other than the Whitworth wadding. Greased patches or wads date from about 1910, Elmer Keith's era. I think he invented the process we all adhere to today. You GOTS to grease the ball, either with an under or over ball glob of grease.
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R.E. Lee's 51 navy was fired seven years after his death. It was noted that all six chambers had a black waxy looking substance on top of the balls.


Sorry if that makes any of you unhappy, but that is the way I read it.
A ball that shaves eliminates front end chain fire. Period.
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Come on down to Mississippi and I'll show you one that shaves a nice ring and will chain fire every single time if you don't lube over the balls or use wads.
 
I gotta refer you to Sam Fadala who has tried ALL the lubes and says there is absolutely NO difference in how the residue builds up with ANY of them. If any of you don't have his book, "The Complete Blackpowder Handbook", I will scan a page or two referring to lubes.
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All I can say is I have seen a difference in build up since I started making my own 'lube pills' or 'grease cookies' and switching to Ballistol as a general lube. I have used both olive oil and Ballistoll (mineral oil) for lube pills and see the same soft, easy to wipe off fouling.

I have several of the Fadala books, they are generally a good source, but I don't agree with everything he puts in print.

I think it boils down to different techniques work for different people. Find what works for you and use it.

I am saying that them who declare "mineral oil" to be good are wrong. "Mineral oil" is made from that same crude oil that your engine oil is made.
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Mineral oil may be from the same crude oil, but is a different class of hydrocarbons. Mineral oil is what is removed from crude in the refining process to gasoline or motor oil.
 
See here: It seems like the alkaline powder residue is reacting with the olive oil to make a particularly corrosive mixture, and since Wonder Lube is supposed to have olive oil in it, this may be why they both react the same way.

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html
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According to mad monk who is the "resident chemist" on the Americanlongrifles board, Bore Butter contains mineral oil and not olive oil. It makes sense because mineral oil is used medicinally and in the commercial food industry as a release agent on baking tins and trays. And this allows TC to state on the Bore Butter label:

"All-Natural" and "Non toxic. All ingredients are food grade rated and biodegradable."


I was able to identify mineral oil in it through the Spectro lab at work.
Then a yellow oil soluble dye to convince the gullible that it just might be beeswax.
Then why over 5% of oil of wintergreen in it?

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=4125.0
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Wow, great posts guys. I'm pretty sure I have absolutely no idea what I should be using now! :D

Bottom line appears to be: Get clean, stay clean, and clean some more. Otherwise, find what works best for you.

I do have to say though, in the tests and based on what guys are saying, the Barristol appears to make a good case for itself as far as protection between shootings. Might have to grab some of that.
 
Why not just just Bore Butter. It is made for use with BP revolvers. It inhibits rust. Am I missing something?

Biodegradable
No petroleum-based ingredients
For lubing bullets
Less tar-like fouling
Prevents rust on gun exterior
Natural scent
 
Bottom line appears to be: Get clean, stay clean, and clean some more. Otherwise, find what works best for you.
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"find what works best for you" that's to way to go. You well find that some lubes 'melt' in the heat of the day and are very messy. Do a search for 'lube pills' or 'grease cookies' you well find several recipes for them. Find a match for what you have on hand and try some.
 
Clembert,

Do as you wish. I have bought ONE tube of that, many years ago, and I think it was about 7 bucks for a what, 4 oz. tube? Mebbe 6?

It is made to be SOLD. It is NOT made to inhibit rust. It is ADVERTISED to prevent rust. It DO smell good, though.

With the stuff I have been reading, and those of you who claim that BP residue will turn into solid chunks of stuff that will make your BP revolver inoperable, I gotta call bull****..

Oil is oil, for the most part. It seems VEGGIE oils are the bad guys, NOT them bad assed "petroleum products".

Personally, I think I will take a can of WD-40 or PB Blaster with me along with a water sprayer.

Cheers,

George
 
gmatov,

Hey, what can I say...they say it prevents rust. I never said I used it. Personally, I don't use Bore Butter and probably won't. In fact I don't use any lube over the ball. I find it messy and unnecessary. After, I soak and wash my revolver in hot water I put it in the oven for 20 minutes at 175 degrees then let it cool for 20 minutes then I blast the lockworks and any crevice with WD40. I'll use a minor amount in the barrel and in the chambers. Before I shoot I run a patch through the barrel and chambers. I haven't seen a problem yet with this method.
 
ClemBert, here give this a try tell me how ya like...clean up with hot soapy water and a hot rinse water...

Lube the innards or wipe the outside and bore with good old LSA, 3in1 oil, gun oil, bearing grease, ect...jus' clean real good before loading rmove oils commin' in contact with BP... wipe with alcohol.

Dang I'm broke Lube Pills

What I did was start out with:
Parafin comes in a brick divided to to 4 like a stick a butter, I used a stick.
Then 1/4 of a Bolwax Toilet Seal Ring(Beeswax)substitute or beeswax or use with the parafin.
Then 8-10 Tablespoons of Olive Oil/soy oil
The Olive oil is the Lube the Waxes just carry it and keep the pill as
you want it.(consistacey/hard or soft...climate time of year)
And that made alot about 600 pills...about 1/8" thick for the most part.
Place the lube mixture in a small saucepan, place the small saucepan in a larger pan with water
boilin' the water and sorta poach the lube mix to a liquid.
level stiff heated pizza pan(or 7-9" heavy pie pan)is the best thing to pour your mix into...
so mix cools evenly(flat) .Place in fridge when it's set stiff(optional)
And worked good for me...you need to try your best guess and add/subract as you like them
for your use.


Punch out to the caliber of your choice, with a tube. Place lube pill over powder with ball
on top. You'll shoot all day without binding. Keeps cylinder lubed fouling soft and barrel
relatively clean.

It works.

SG
 
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I'm a newbie, but I've been using just plain Von's brand Crisco. 4.50 for a huge tub of the stuff. So far it seems to be working very well. No issues with fouling so far, but I'm open to suggestions as well.
 
I've been using just plain Von's brand Crisco. 4.50 for a huge tub of the stuff. So far it seems to be working very well.
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They I'd say try the above ...took me 23yrs. to make it and been usin' it for 5yrs. Best thing I have ever used...try it.
You won't have drippin' chambers with all the Crisco blown out the first shot with 5 more to go. Your Rev will shoot all day, Colt or Rem...or whatever else ya got.
 
I've shot a few hundred rounds so far, haven't had an issue with dripping chambers, but I'll consider your recipe. Gotta work out the organic chemistry on my own for fear of the "petroleum based oils" scare :D
 
those of you who claim that BP residue will turn into solid chunks of stuff that will make your BP revolver inoperable, I gotta call bull****..
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I don't remember anybody saying that turned into solid chunks of stuff. It will build up to the point of making it inoperable tho. Using most lubes you'll get three or four cylinders fired before you have to remove the cylinder and clean off the cylinder pin. Colt's with the big arbor generally run a little longer than Remington's. Using petro based lubes won't foul it up any faster but what it does is make an easy cleanup job hard. BP used with vegetable based lube cleans up with water.
 
I've shot a few hundred rounds so far, haven't had an issue with dripping chambers
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It hasn't gotten hot yet.:D Crisco and bore butter will get real thin and runny in summer heat.
 
Thanks SG, but I think I'll just stick with my method until I find a reason not to. I forgot to mention I used lubricated felt wads between the powder and the ball. My point was really just to mention I used WD40 as a post-shoot preservative. But I think people who use Bore Butter for shooting can probably use it as a rust preventative after cleaning their firearm.
 
What's most important is that all traces of water be removed before using Bore Butter or else the water can become trapped under it which can then cause rust.
 
crstrode
Junior Member

Join Date: 2008-08-14
Posts: 11

Colts Rule!
I've got a bunch of the Colt type revolvers. Got two of them from Cabela's and I could not be happier.
I've also got one of the 1851 style Colts in 44 caliber with a brass frame. I've shot a load of balls through it with no signs of wear or looseness or any of the other hogwash that you'll read here and elsewhere.
If they were good enough for Wild Bill Hickok, they're good enough for me.




crstode: That analogy doesn't hold any water. Wild Bill used a steel frame 1851 made by Colt in USA- not a brass frame from Cabela's made in Italy. There's a difference.

I've had (2) brass framed Colt replicas, pull the arbor out of the frame and destroy the gun, from shooting them- and needed to replace both frames with steel ones. Now, you cannot get steel replacement frames- so if you buy a brass frame gun and it breaks, it becomes just so much costly spare parts and paperweights.
 
Newtons Third Law of Physics

Captain Crossman wrote:

I've had (2) brass framed Colt replicas, pull the arbor out of the frame and destroy the gun, from shooting them- and needed to replace both frames with steel ones.
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Arbors don't pull out of a frame from shooting.

Think about it. The recoil goes backwards - not frontwards.

Then there is a feature called a recoil shield. Guess what? They call it that for a reason. Recoil from the cylinder is absorbed by the frame - not the arbor/frame junction. The cylinder floats and is not connected to the arbor - hence, the rearward recoil from firing does not stress the arbor pin.

When revolver is fired, frontward force placed on the arbor comes from the resistance of the ball as it enters the forcing cone and is pushed down the barrel. There is more force placed on the arbor when the balls are seated into the chambers!

Since the mass of the barrel assembly is enormous compared to the mass of a little tiny ball, according to Sir Issac Newton, the ball moves - not the barrel.

Of course, some of the combustion gasses that follow along behind the ball as it travels down the barrel will be pushing on the barrel and forcing cone area. This force is very small otherwise the revolver would jump out of your hand and fly downrange while the ball would remain behind and drop onto your toes.

If an arbor is pulled out of the frame it is most likely due to abuse from some bonehead that hammers the wedge in too tight.

--------------------------------------------

Pardon me if this explanation is too technical - some of the grease monkeys out there might not get it.
 
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You're half right. When the ball reaches the forcing cone, from there on out the ball is also pushing the barrel forward... and the barrel is held onto the revolver by a wedge through the barrel frame and arbor. Kinda like clamping the cylinder in a vise and pulling on the barrel with a come-along or somesuch. True, the cylinder will be pushed backward against the recoil shield, but their will also be a pulling force exerted on the arbor. And not just a pulling force from the ball and gases going down the barrel, but a related and combined force called Newton's First Law of Motion that states a body at rest tends to stay at rest - the gun's frame and cylinder are pulling away from the barrel and the barrel wants to stay at rest... but is held onto the gun's frame by the cylinder wedge... which also goes through the arbor... which is screwed into the brass frame.
 
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