Pump vs Semi Auto vs Double for Defense
- Thread starter dalegribble
- Start date
This question comes up in EVERY forum I belong too. There will NEVER be an agreement on which is best, be it a semi or a pump or a double, buckshot, birdshot, slugs, the sound of a pump racking a round, a bolt slam home or a silent loading.
I have a few "personal" choices and "personal" thoughts.
First off is too many watch too many Rambo type movies and have no idea of real world shootings and HD situations. People just immaging themselves as Rambo. Nice concept, just not real world HD.
I have a Berreta 390, old model, wood stock and it never failed to fire, not ever. I also have a Remington 870 and an Ithaca 37 available but for MY home defence, I want a semi, my Berreta.
What happens if for some reason the nasty invader gets off a shot and disables your arm, how are you gonna "rack another round"? With a semi, I am sure I can continue to fire one handed, difficult but doable.
As mentioned a couple of times, why would I assume the sound of me "pumping" my 870 is going to make the BG run away? He may,,, then again he now knows where you are. I don't want him to have ANY idea of where I am. I most likely will be behind a door frame somewhat protected, close to the floor where he won't expect me to be anyways. I now have a bit of surprise in MY favor because I am NOT where he would expect me to be.
I don't have extended magazines, side saddles, bayonets and all the other crap that is so popular with the unknowing. If I can't defuse the situation with one or two shots, I am doing something wrong. I sure don't expect a running battle requireing me to have 30 rounds attached to the gun (see Rambo mentality quote)
As I said in the beginning, this will NEVER get resolved as there are simply too many OPINIONS out there, most unfounded and based on watching too many movies.
Whatever...
I have a few "personal" choices and "personal" thoughts.
First off is too many watch too many Rambo type movies and have no idea of real world shootings and HD situations. People just immaging themselves as Rambo. Nice concept, just not real world HD.
I have a Berreta 390, old model, wood stock and it never failed to fire, not ever. I also have a Remington 870 and an Ithaca 37 available but for MY home defence, I want a semi, my Berreta.
What happens if for some reason the nasty invader gets off a shot and disables your arm, how are you gonna "rack another round"? With a semi, I am sure I can continue to fire one handed, difficult but doable.
As mentioned a couple of times, why would I assume the sound of me "pumping" my 870 is going to make the BG run away? He may,,, then again he now knows where you are. I don't want him to have ANY idea of where I am. I most likely will be behind a door frame somewhat protected, close to the floor where he won't expect me to be anyways. I now have a bit of surprise in MY favor because I am NOT where he would expect me to be.
I don't have extended magazines, side saddles, bayonets and all the other crap that is so popular with the unknowing. If I can't defuse the situation with one or two shots, I am doing something wrong. I sure don't expect a running battle requireing me to have 30 rounds attached to the gun (see Rambo mentality quote)
As I said in the beginning, this will NEVER get resolved as there are simply too many OPINIONS out there, most unfounded and based on watching too many movies.
Whatever...
I didn't vote because the answer isn't black and white. My "go to" shotgun is a Mossberg 590A1, the first sound from which any bad guy is ever going to hear out of it is "BOOOOOMMM!!!"
That said, I have a blued Stoeger SxS Coach gun on top of my entertainment center for any odd hours noises at the front door. It's just too dang handy to not have up there and I'm thinking I'll soon pay up to AOW that bad boy. Two barrels full of #4 Buck is plenty to get a head start to the real firepower.
That said, I have a blued Stoeger SxS Coach gun on top of my entertainment center for any odd hours noises at the front door. It's just too dang handy to not have up there and I'm thinking I'll soon pay up to AOW that bad boy. Two barrels full of #4 Buck is plenty to get a head start to the real firepower.
Uh...I have had tactical training with all types of shotguns over 30+ years. Since when have extended magazines and side saddle round holders signified that a person is unknowing? I agree with you about most people having false concepts about real world shootings ( endless magazines with no reloading, holding your pistol sideways like the "ganstas in da hood" and such) And i'll even give you the possability of being wounded in one arm, to where you can't work the pump action (that is where I transition to my .45 and procede to shoot one handed, tyvm). Also I totally agree about not giving away your location, it's YOUR house and YOU know the layout of it, not them.
Just because you have the ability to use only 1-2 rounds to "end a fight" do you load only 1-2 rounds into your shotgun? Having ample ammunition at hand for a defensive firearm you are using has always been a sound practice and goes back WAY before the RAMBO movies. What if you have a DETERMINED GANG break into your house? That doesn't just happen in movies my friend, and having at least a couple reloads is more than welcome in that given situation. Do running gunfights happen all the time? No, do extended firefights happen in real life like they do in the movies? Usually not, in fact 98.9% of the time no. But when that 1.1% DOES happen, i'll have the ammunition to support my chosen firearm, not because i'm "unknowing" and have a "Rambo mentality" but because I was TRAINED to have enough ammunition for a wide range of encounters. (And no, I DON'T have a bayonet fixed to ANY of my longarms, heh.)
I agree with you on almost every other point, but you lost me on the "unknowng" part as far as carrying a said amount of ammunition for my defensive firearm.
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Katrina Guy
Moderator
Ruger makes a good point.
I weighed that before I purchased my pumps, (oh wow now it sounds like I'm a cross dresser or something, my pump action shotguns-so stop smirking guys!), the advantage of a semi auto's ability to be fired with out the second hand pumping in case you were to be injured and have a hand out of commission.
Here's my question to you, not of a tactical nature either, ok I don't go out and shoot shotguns, clays etc, in fact to date I haven't fired either my new 870 or my new Persuader yet...ok, will a semi auto (gas operated) be there for you many years later as opposed to a pump action? I mean will the gas seals or "O" rings or whatever they are, go bad over time? Every few months I put a few drops of gun oil on the working components of my pumps, UGH, my pump action shotguns so I'm not totally devoid of maintenence, just wondering about semi autos over the long haul, as relates to gas seals etc.
(Other then that I prefer them, used to have a Browning A5)
AND after Katrina, having a fire arm totally submerged under water in the course of grabbing everything, I had wondered about a semi auto's reliability vs a pump.
I weighed that before I purchased my pumps, (oh wow now it sounds like I'm a cross dresser or something, my pump action shotguns-so stop smirking guys!), the advantage of a semi auto's ability to be fired with out the second hand pumping in case you were to be injured and have a hand out of commission.
Here's my question to you, not of a tactical nature either, ok I don't go out and shoot shotguns, clays etc, in fact to date I haven't fired either my new 870 or my new Persuader yet...ok, will a semi auto (gas operated) be there for you many years later as opposed to a pump action? I mean will the gas seals or "O" rings or whatever they are, go bad over time? Every few months I put a few drops of gun oil on the working components of my pumps, UGH, my pump action shotguns so I'm not totally devoid of maintenence, just wondering about semi autos over the long haul, as relates to gas seals etc.
(Other then that I prefer them, used to have a Browning A5)
AND after Katrina, having a fire arm totally submerged under water in the course of grabbing everything, I had wondered about a semi auto's reliability vs a pump.
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Katrina Guy
Moderator
I remember going way way back duck hunting..
that Brownings had an excellent reputation of not jamming under duck blind/often duck blind mud and shotguns...and that back then (around 1970) the Remington 1100 wasn't regarded in the same reliable in the duck blind as the Browning.
that Brownings had an excellent reputation of not jamming under duck blind/often duck blind mud and shotguns...and that back then (around 1970) the Remington 1100 wasn't regarded in the same reliable in the duck blind as the Browning.
Katrina Guy
Moderator
I don't even know if they have an "o" ring *LOL*
But I was looking at an SKS rifle sometime back and became aware of "o" rings or "gas seals" so assumed a gas operated shotgun maybe has something like that, to seal the gas, as it were.
Guess the biggest question is will these seals dry rot or something over time, or will water / adverse conditions effect them, effect the reliability of a gas operated shotgun.
But I was looking at an SKS rifle sometime back and became aware of "o" rings or "gas seals" so assumed a gas operated shotgun maybe has something like that, to seal the gas, as it were.
Guess the biggest question is will these seals dry rot or something over time, or will water / adverse conditions effect them, effect the reliability of a gas operated shotgun.
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LanceOregon
Moderator
The Tristar semi-auto is a pretty decent deal. Here is a review where the shotgun was soaked with water and then frozen, and then test fired with ice all over it:
http://www.gunblast.com/images/TriStar/TriStar.wmv
The CZ Model 712 is very similar, and I like it better because it has a chromed bolt, and chrome lined chamber and barrel.
It is actually also a little less expensive, though both are very affordable.
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http://www.gunblast.com/images/TriStar/TriStar.wmv
The CZ Model 712 is very similar, and I like it better because it has a chromed bolt, and chrome lined chamber and barrel.
It is actually also a little less expensive, though both are very affordable.
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Evyl Robot
New member
I probably will eventually. There are lots of guns on my list.
Yes, sir! I don't think the collection will be complete until I have a few doubles!
Thank you! I appreciate it!
A_McDougal
New member
deleted
Katrina Guy
Moderator
what about dry rot over time, LanceOregon
That's a viable concern for me, the gas seals, whatever they consist of, rubber? I need to pull out a shotgun a decade or two from now I don't want to "hope" everything's ok in there.
That's a viable concern for me, the gas seals, whatever they consist of, rubber? I need to pull out a shotgun a decade or two from now I don't want to "hope" everything's ok in there.
Cruncher Block
New member
A shotgun training course made me wish I had a reliable semi instead of a pump. There's a lot to be said for one-handed operation.
Nevertheless, I still have my 870. Bottom line is I am used to it and it works. That and I'm a cheapskate, too.
I don't keep a house gun with a round in the chamber. After careful consideration, that's just where I personally landed on the safety vs. readiness scale. I considered the presence of kids in the home as well as the state of my motor skills and situational awareness when waking up startled.
As far as giving away my position by racking the gun, anyone choosing to forcefully come into my home could easily guess where I am. Stealth and surprise will not be in my favor, racked gun or not.
In the "bump in the night" scenario, I've decided there is danger in (a) looking for someone and (b) thinking that someone doesn't know where I am. It seems more practical to chamber a round, get somewhere safe, call the police, and issue a strong verbal command to get out of my house.
Nevertheless, I still have my 870. Bottom line is I am used to it and it works. That and I'm a cheapskate, too.
I don't keep a house gun with a round in the chamber. After careful consideration, that's just where I personally landed on the safety vs. readiness scale. I considered the presence of kids in the home as well as the state of my motor skills and situational awareness when waking up startled.
As far as giving away my position by racking the gun, anyone choosing to forcefully come into my home could easily guess where I am. Stealth and surprise will not be in my favor, racked gun or not.
In the "bump in the night" scenario, I've decided there is danger in (a) looking for someone and (b) thinking that someone doesn't know where I am. It seems more practical to chamber a round, get somewhere safe, call the police, and issue a strong verbal command to get out of my house.
Here's my problem with this debate. All shotguns have to be loaded, right? Unless you keep a shotgun with a round in the chamber in your house. Which I don't. Unless the firearm in question is in my possesion at all times, like a ccw, I don't leave a firearm at redcon 1. That's silly, and it's waiting for an accident to happen. I leave my Mossberg 500 with a full mag under my bed. Well, until my son gets old enough for me to be worried about him working the pump. Then it goes in the safe. And I'll use the bioscan safe next to my bed to get my pistol. A semi auto is still going to make noice when you pull the bolt back and let it go forward to chamber a round. Just sayin.
I have posted this elsewhere in 'bump in the night' type threads, but I personally think that taking a second to manually make the weapon ready (go from condition 3 to condition 1) is a good way for my sleepy possibly alcohol slowed head to say hello to the weapon before go-time. Also, even though it may not induce involuntary voiding of the bowels, that ka-chlak is a pretty good warning to the perp that I am ready and willing to breath fire should my playstation be that enticing to you. A buddy of mine who was a Marine MP in Iraq told me that "shacking one" (racking the T-handle on an M16) means the same thing in Arabic as it does in English: 'I'm done arguing with you now'.
I like autos...but I don't like the noise that autos or pumps make when chambering a round...I wouldn't want to give away where I am. Perhaps this is why the best defense weapon is a simple DA revolver loaded with six shots. Safe and quiet until you really need to make a noise with it.
A regular maintenance/inspection schedule of probably the most important weapon/weapons(whichever is your preference) we own will cure the gas seal 'dry-rot' issue or insure our pump, semi-auto handgun or revolver will function when its mostly needed. These weapons should get the best care of all we own!