Pump vs Semi Auto vs Double for Defense
- Thread starter dalegribble
- Start date
yeah, in the heat of the situation, shortstroking your pump would be fatal, and giving away your position is bad, esp if the perp doesnt poo their pants when he hears you chamber a round. and heaven forbid you need a second shot, pumping the shotgun could also be fatal if they had a pistol and you missed your first shot.
Well, I think we can all agree here to use what you are most comfortable with in a defense scenario. I myself have shot all types of actions in shotguns and I find I'm more comfortable with a pump and I have my Mossberg 500 with the 18.5" bbl as my defense gun.
As for the intimidation factor I must say the sound of a shotgun being pumped is a rather distinctive sound. However I think a BG would be more intimidated by having a SxS shotgun pointed at them. Something about looking down two 12 gauge barrels is just very unsettling.
As for the intimidation factor I must say the sound of a shotgun being pumped is a rather distinctive sound. However I think a BG would be more intimidated by having a SxS shotgun pointed at them. Something about looking down two 12 gauge barrels is just very unsettling.
Just my 2 cents here. A few months back I'm sure my roomie and I were on the verge of a home invasion. The meth heads do stupid stuff which is odd because EVERYone is armed around here. Anywho, main go to gun for HD is a 4 inch 629. In addition I always keep a KelTec 32 in my pocket. As for the scatterguns, the livin room contains a SxS 10 gauge with the barrels lopped to 21 inches. The hole up in the bedroom shotgun is a remington SP-10 with a 22 inch tube. Got a BPS in 10 on the way and not sure where that will fit in. My reasoning is that with limited capacity, I like the most potent round I can muster. Both 10's are full of Federal 3.5 inch 00 buck.
To quote Graham Greene in the movie Thunderheart, "Myths and bullsh*t"
If someone breaks into my house at 0-dark-thirty, I have a tactical advantage of knowing the lay out of my house. They don't have that knowledge. Why would I give up that tactical advantage by relying on some Hollywood movie bullsh*t to scare them away, thereby giving away my position and letting them know
1) where I am
2) what kind of weapon I have
Can we deal in reality, please?
I have a Mossberg 500 7+1 pump gun w/Surefire forearm and Knoxx SpecOps stock. I also have a Stoeger coach gun. The M500 is in my safe upstairs in my bedroom. The coach gun is on the top top shelf of a downstairs closet for easy (but hidden) access.
Seriously though, in any case, if I hear noise at night, I'm grabbing my Sig 220 .45ACP w/Surefire X300 from inside my nightstand. If 8 rounds of 45ACP aren't going to dissolve the situation, then the pistol will protect me til I reach my M500 shotty or my AR15. Indoors, turning corners, etc. - I'd much rather have the maneuverability of a pistol that I'm extremely proficient with.
If I had disposable funds for a semi-auto 12 gauge though, I'd have one. Mossberg 930 SPX probably.
Seriously though, in any case, if I hear noise at night, I'm grabbing my Sig 220 .45ACP w/Surefire X300 from inside my nightstand. If 8 rounds of 45ACP aren't going to dissolve the situation, then the pistol will protect me til I reach my M500 shotty or my AR15. Indoors, turning corners, etc. - I'd much rather have the maneuverability of a pistol that I'm extremely proficient with.
If I had disposable funds for a semi-auto 12 gauge though, I'd have one. Mossberg 930 SPX probably.
Big Ugly Tall Texan
New member
I don't keep my pump in battery for a number of reasons
Therefore, if I hear a bump in the night which requires a search and destroy effort, I have to slap a round in the chamber first.
Therefore, if I hear a bump in the night which requires a search and destroy effort, I have to slap a round in the chamber first.
Evyl Robot
New member
Kills on one end, maims on the other?
Evil Robot: FWIW, when I was a kid the only shotgun we had around was a Pardner in 12 gauge. That thing beat me senseless. So the big 10's really don't seem all that bad. As a teenager, I helped the neighbor follow up on a coyote that he winged with a 16 gauge as it was stirrin' up his chickens. The thing bled all over and we followed it out into his vineyard. She was down and I approached her slowly. At about 15 feet she stood and spun towards us. She got both barrels with the 00 buck from the SxS I referred to earlier. Flipped her over backwards and did some MASSIVE damage. I've been stuck on the virtues of 10 gauge 00 buck ever since.
Off topic, but as for the 44's, I shoot big bore wheelies more than anything else so they feel like extensions of myself. Some others get used for various things, but if the SHTF, that 4 inch 629 is what I'd grab handgun wise. My friend and fellow big bore fan, likes to make fun of me because of the lil' plastic 32 in my pocket. We've hunted for years together and the smallest gun he has seen me deploy other than a 22, is my Glock 20. He asks if I'm getting to old for the big ones.
Publius: I feel comfy at nite with them around. The thing at home that I referred to was an eye opener. I'd use my Springer SOCOM, but too many neighbors around. All joking aside, there are some 12 gauges floatin around the house, but I like the big stuff. Maybe I have some kind of complex. lol.
Off topic, but as for the 44's, I shoot big bore wheelies more than anything else so they feel like extensions of myself. Some others get used for various things, but if the SHTF, that 4 inch 629 is what I'd grab handgun wise. My friend and fellow big bore fan, likes to make fun of me because of the lil' plastic 32 in my pocket. We've hunted for years together and the smallest gun he has seen me deploy other than a 22, is my Glock 20. He asks if I'm getting to old for the big ones.
Publius: I feel comfy at nite with them around. The thing at home that I referred to was an eye opener. I'd use my Springer SOCOM, but too many neighbors around. All joking aside, there are some 12 gauges floatin around the house, but I like the big stuff. Maybe I have some kind of complex. lol.
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Evyl Robot
New member
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE my M29. I was seriously thinking about getting a double 10, but the availability and price of ammo is what scared me off from that. If I could find a 3.5-in chambered 12-gauge coach for a price that I could justify, I'd snap it up. It just strikes me as funny to use a 10-gauge as a primary HD gun. I tip my hat to you, but it's still funny.
I guess, Darkgael, I have at least 50K ,maybe close to 100K hulls behind me out of pumps. I wasn't keeping track. Almost all were from 870s.
I have kept track on how many times I've short stroked in these 50 years.
ONCE. A pair of doubles, and I didn't get the second shell in the chamber.
With a fair bit of use, the proper rack is instinctive.
However, I care not a whit what style of shotgun you prefer, as long as you know it like your tongue knows your teeth....
I have kept track on how many times I've short stroked in these 50 years.
ONCE. A pair of doubles, and I didn't get the second shell in the chamber.
With a fair bit of use, the proper rack is instinctive.
However, I care not a whit what style of shotgun you prefer, as long as you know it like your tongue knows your teeth....
To each his own.
I believe that a defensive firearm should be the one that you are most familiar with and most apt to be able to operate in the dark and under the most adverse of conditions.I believe that a BB in the eye is better than nothing out of or a miss with a 10 gauge Mag.At 64,handicapped,disabled and terminally ill,the recoil of a shotgun can be fatal to me.I found this out some years back when I shot my 835 with a 3 1/2 inch mag shell.Due to blood thinners I had some serious bruising and internal bleeding.Yep!After a lifetime of shooting up to a 8 gauge shotgun along with Mr. Rugers biggest bore rifle (which they do not even make any more)and revolvers,I am a wimp.I have to use what my crippled hands and body can handle.A unfamiliar firearm or a firearm you can not handle is a handicap in a emergency!
Unfortunately,I have seen many folk handicap their selves with a firearm in nearly every kind of shooting.I believe most of us experienced shooters with multiple firearms have done so multiple times.I have every time I chose to use the gun that was not what I did best with.This is great and OK at target shooting.It is not OK when Game suffers from wounding.It can be DEADLY for you and your loved ones in a defensive or offensive situation.And yes,a good offense is often the best defense in my belief.
This is a shotgun forum.Use the shotgun that you do best with,IF a shotgun is what you do best with.If not,get the weapon that you do the best job with.I have had a 44 mag revolver within arms reach but had to fight off a Rabid Coon with a boat paddle in one hand and a boat cushion in the other.Had I dropped one and turned for the gun,I would have been bitten.IF you could plan your emergencies,you would never allow them to happen!
IF I ever have a opponent in the dark with any type of gun,I surly hope that they will make a noise with that action.It will give me a much better chance of surviving.The louder the better.I believe that this type of noise is often followed by the death rattle of the folks who make these noises.While it may thrill or intimidate a novice,it is a VERY welcome and much appreciated
sound to a experienced oponate.
alfred.
I believe that a defensive firearm should be the one that you are most familiar with and most apt to be able to operate in the dark and under the most adverse of conditions.I believe that a BB in the eye is better than nothing out of or a miss with a 10 gauge Mag.At 64,handicapped,disabled and terminally ill,the recoil of a shotgun can be fatal to me.I found this out some years back when I shot my 835 with a 3 1/2 inch mag shell.Due to blood thinners I had some serious bruising and internal bleeding.Yep!After a lifetime of shooting up to a 8 gauge shotgun along with Mr. Rugers biggest bore rifle (which they do not even make any more)and revolvers,I am a wimp.I have to use what my crippled hands and body can handle.A unfamiliar firearm or a firearm you can not handle is a handicap in a emergency!
Unfortunately,I have seen many folk handicap their selves with a firearm in nearly every kind of shooting.I believe most of us experienced shooters with multiple firearms have done so multiple times.I have every time I chose to use the gun that was not what I did best with.This is great and OK at target shooting.It is not OK when Game suffers from wounding.It can be DEADLY for you and your loved ones in a defensive or offensive situation.And yes,a good offense is often the best defense in my belief.
This is a shotgun forum.Use the shotgun that you do best with,IF a shotgun is what you do best with.If not,get the weapon that you do the best job with.I have had a 44 mag revolver within arms reach but had to fight off a Rabid Coon with a boat paddle in one hand and a boat cushion in the other.Had I dropped one and turned for the gun,I would have been bitten.IF you could plan your emergencies,you would never allow them to happen!
IF I ever have a opponent in the dark with any type of gun,I surly hope that they will make a noise with that action.It will give me a much better chance of surviving.The louder the better.I believe that this type of noise is often followed by the death rattle of the folks who make these noises.While it may thrill or intimidate a novice,it is a VERY welcome and much appreciated
sound to a experienced oponate.
alfred.
Evyl: You should get a SxS 10, they're a hoot. Believe it or not, ammo isn't too scarce up here for them. But there are a lot of goose hunters here. I like the reliability of the doubles.FWIW, my Remington has never bobbled either. Plus doubles are mean lookin. Now that you mention it, a 3.5 12 wouldn't be so bad. BTW, I checked out your link to your holsters. Neat stuff you got goin there.
I'll pick the pump, I have a Mossberg 590 that has never failed. As far as giving away your position? I keep a round in the chamber with the safety on. In answer to short stroking or not having time to pump the action before lead starts coming at you here is a tip. Those that have been trained with a pump shotgun know to use the recoil of the first round to assist in loading the next round. As the first round goes off, let the inertia of the recoil pull your support hand (the hand on the foregrip / slide) backwards untill you reach full open battery for ejection. Then just run the slide forward as you reaquire your sight picture (you have to do this anyway because of recoil). You now have a second round in the chamber and ready to go in the same amount of time as it takes to reaquire your sights.
You can keep up a ridiculous rate of fire like this using a pump, and no chance of short stroking it because you are using the recoil to assist in a full rearward cycle. With just a little practice it becomes second nature and you are good to go.
You can keep up a ridiculous rate of fire like this using a pump, and no chance of short stroking it because you are using the recoil to assist in a full rearward cycle. With just a little practice it becomes second nature and you are good to go.
I love shotguns and have many of them in various formats.
When something goes bump in the night a pump 12 guage is what I am going for. Absolute reliability and I have never had a problem with one.
My Remington 1100's have jammed on me in the past. A few times over many years, but they did jam.
That said, about a year ago I bought a couple of Saiga 12's and a Bennelli. Both have performed perfectly without an issue of any kind. A couple of more years under my belt with perfect experience and I may use one of these in lue of the pump.
The Saiga's intrigue me and I find myself shooting them more than anything else. Just plain fun. I bought the 25 round drums for them and talk about firepower.
But, if I do choose a semi for HD, it will be the Bennelli because I do not have to mess with magazines and can reload on the run.
When something goes bump in the night a pump 12 guage is what I am going for. Absolute reliability and I have never had a problem with one.
My Remington 1100's have jammed on me in the past. A few times over many years, but they did jam.
That said, about a year ago I bought a couple of Saiga 12's and a Bennelli. Both have performed perfectly without an issue of any kind. A couple of more years under my belt with perfect experience and I may use one of these in lue of the pump.
The Saiga's intrigue me and I find myself shooting them more than anything else. Just plain fun. I bought the 25 round drums for them and talk about firepower.
But, if I do choose a semi for HD, it will be the Bennelli because I do not have to mess with magazines and can reload on the run.