Public Rifle Ranges Got to love them

Powderman, I would have to disagree with the extreme safety measures. I do not run civilian ranges, but on rare occasion when I am compelled to instruct a SWAT training session, I let common sense dictate how my range is safe. First and foremost, my range is idiot proof. How do I make it idiot proof? I kick the idiots off of it. When we are down range, I could not care less if the rifles have rounds in the magazines. I don't even care if there is a round in the chamber. All I care is the bolt is up and slid back about a half inch. When I went to Master Swat operator school, one of the exercises we did at least 100 times, involved our sniper shooting a small water balloon that was 18" above our point man's head. The sniper was shooting it from 100 yards. Forgive me, but I am just not very paranoid about being downrange of loaded and even attended, loaded weapons. I am extremely paranoid about even being on the range with a person who is not competent and proficient in firearms handling.
Messing with scope caps on an obviously unloaded firearm while the range was cold? That would not even cause me to bat an eye. Unloaded rifles do not kill anyone, unless someone uses them as a club and beats you to death with them.
The only training accidents I have seen came from a ricochet, which is just a chance you take when shooting steel poppers. I got hit in the arm by a piece of #4 buck that ricocheted off the wall of a shoot house. That is pretty much unavoidable as well.

We have a remote 1000yd range that we shoot at regularly. A couple of "contractors" were shooting there not too long ago. Both are ex military snipers. Conditions were less than ideal and they could not see where they were hitting. One of them went down range and stood about 30 feet away from the target and radioed back to the other one where he was hitting. I was not there that day, but the story was relayed to me. It was shocking to the one telling it. To me, it is just a testament to the confidence they have in each others level of ability.
 
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Am I expecting too much from my fellow shooters?
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Short answer: Yes you are.


There are way too many untrained shooters out there. Its not suprising if they shoot your target intentionally or not. I'm not even surprised when some new shooters don't even know how to use their own guns...

Even "experienced" shooters still make dumb mistakes. For example, my roomate (who has more guns than me), has never zeroed his RDS on his AR15. We went to the outdoor range a few months ago and he couldn't hit anything with his rifle due to his optic not being zeroed, while I was banging steel at 150yards with my optic (already zeroed) on my AR.

And this is from a "firearm enthusiast". Imagine what noobs are capable of...scary.
 
At my club it use to be open to the public but it got to where people was shooting up the target frames and leaving trash not just plastic bottles and such but car mufflers and other parts. We had to go to a members only shooting range with a few simple rules. Now we have target frames that I built from last year that are needing to be replaced. Yes once in awhile you'll hit a frame when sighting in a new rifle but if you been shooting for any length of time you can tell if it was a accident or if it was on purpose. The ones done on purpose really burned my butt and if caught someone doing this they would be asked to leave and their membership revoked.
 
THANK YOU, reynolds357. Apparently common sense is missing on many private ranges as well as public. It seems like too many people are less concerned with actual safety and more concerned with black and white interpretations of safe practices.
 
Sierra280 said:
THANK YOU, reynolds357. Apparently common sense is missing on many private ranges as well as public. It seems like too many people are less concerned with actual safety and more concerned with black and white interpretations of safe practices.
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While you may not have been technically unsafe, you WERE violating a common range safety rule and he was right to correct you. Those black-and-white rules were put there for a reason: to make it easier for everybody to follow them and for RSOs to enforce them.

Let's apply your "common sense" rule here: Which of these two rules do you think would be easier to enforce and to get people to follow?

1) Don't touch your firearms when people are downrange, unless your magazine is removed and your bolt is locked back, or you have a chamber flag, or you're just adjusting your scope covers, or if they're pointed in a safe direction and unloaded, etc.

OR:

2) Don't touch your firearms when people are downrange. Period.
 
THEOHAZARD you summed up what my response was going to be. We are talking about a public range not trained military. When I am down range I can't tell if Joe Public is messing with his scope caps or putting a round in the chamber. The worst mistake is assuming some one knows what they are doing. This is the gods honest truth.....I was at the range one day and this guy had his scope mounted backwards I asked him why he had it mounted backwards....his response "oh is it backwards I was wondering why objects looked further away should I turn it around?" After that day I assume Nonthing!!
 
@reynolds357: It sounds like you are on an LE range. There are different practices and procedures there. During our quals, the first sentence of the range briefing states that the range is a HOT range. In short, before, during and after your qual, you will have a loaded sidearm--at the very least.

Moreover, I am intimately familiar with the sniper shot you mentioned--a entry or op initiated by the sniper's shot--since I am one of those Sierra units that take the shot.

My reference is for the ranges that are not restricted to LE or military use, or those ranges restricted to special training.

When on a public range, I take NO chances with the safety of those on the line.

All guns are ALWAYS loaded.
Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
Always be sure of your target and what is beyond.

When I am the RSO, the people downrange are trusting their lives to me. If YOU were downrange, would you want someone handling a firearm that is pointed in your direction?
 
reynolds357 - How do you know the guy's rifle is unloaded, when you're down range and turn around to see him fumbling with his rifle; such as his scope caps? Common sense tells me that a red alert should be sounding off in my head --- when I see such a major infraction ---such as handling of firearms on the firing line; while the range is still cold.

Technically...a round still in the chamber can detonate with a hot barreled "cook off" --- but in most shooting range violations --- it has been noted that it is the most experienced shooter's that come down making the biggest safety violation mistakes.

Some seem to have one track minds...when all there concerned about is the shooting task at hand, and totally forget to have enough mindfulness to be safety conscious on the range.

The major reason we keep firearms unloaded/magazines removed/ECI's installed during the cease fire at our range...is too keep kids --- or people that seem to have a mind of a kid --- to make it harder for them too come up to the firing line during a cease fire, and have them close the bolt on a live round, or cycle in a round from the magazine; and pull the trigger.
 
I would have to say #2 is the common sense answer, Theohazard.

Luckily, an unloaded bolt action rifle without a bolt isn't a firearm. It's just gun parts. Or pieces of metal. No more capable of firing a live cartridge than a tool box handle or a pipe wrench.

I understand seeing someone near their gun might cause others concern down range but:

The major reason we keep firearms unloaded/magazines removed/ECI's installed during the cease fire at our range...is too keep kids --- or people that seem to have a mind of a kid --- to make it harder for them too come up to the firing line during a cease fire, and have them close the bolt on a live round, or cycle in a round from the magazine; and pull the trigger.
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my range goes to the extra mile, they make you empty your gun during cease fire and wont let anyone go downrange until all guns have been cleared with the RO. I think that if a gun has been showed clear and if someone has removed the bolt or inserted a LCI then there should be no reason why they can't put caps back on their scope or take their guns off the line and leave during a cease fire. now if there were bullets present in the magazine and all it would take would be a drop of the bolt and squeeze of the trigger to send a round down range then by all means don't let people handle their guns during cease fire however you're just as likely to be killed by an idiot swinging his condition 0 firearm around during hot range as you are of it happening by handling a firearm during ceasefire.

just my .02.
 
Erno, have you seen a hot barreled cook off with any of the powder manufactured in the last 30 years in anything other than a closed breech machine gun? You can take a closed breech machine gun, make the barrel glow, and cook off a round with some powders. Other than that, its not happening. Assume a "hot barreled cook off" could occur in reasonable circumstances. The bolt is open and slightly slid back. What is going to happen?
 
The biggest single issue with anything "public" is that the public encompasses a certain percentage of slobs and morons.

The First Basic Law of Human Stupidity asserts without ambiguity that

Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation

More here...
 
Public ranges are different than private ranges or those used only by professionals. When I shoot with people I trust, I think nothing of being down range when they're handling a gun. I know it's been made safe. The bolt is out, or open, or whatever it takes. Public places, no sir, I'd be ducking for cover. There's a lot of idiots out there.
 
reynolds357 - Hot barreled cook off with the bolt open and slightly slid back?
I would assume that the bullet would result in a squib load --- with the shell casing ejecting/propelling backwards --- possibly causing serious injury or death to the shooter or any bystander's nearby.
 
We have a pretty good public range here in Albuquerque. The range officers are very strict about not handling guns during a ceasefire, and will ask those who violate range protocols to leave.

Some people don't like to be told what to do because it's an assault to their ego, but I'm glad that they enforce the rules. It seems that as the years go by a larger and larger proportion of the population are kinda stupid, hence a society with more and more dumb rules.
 
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The way I see it, the more public ranges, the better. An important component in the survival of the Second Amendment is to provide facilities for more people to participate in and enjoy and appreciate the shooting sports. More public ranges afford more people the opportunity to experience what some of us take for granted. I see no downside for providing readily accessible avenues that encourages people new to the shooting sports to take advantage of shooting ranges open to the public.
 
I really dig our local range, but its erks me when testing data loads some highly skilled call of duty fellar gets out all his guns, and takes his friends to the range where unfortunately the range personel assigns the fella the booth next to me,,,, and its happened more than once.
Once I had a five load data test to complete, and the first shot from my rifle was followed by three smaller diameter holes, i could only sit and wait 15 mins for cease-fire then retrieve trash target and pin up new one and shoot a four round data group,, before I shot my next group I got behind this novice shooter and saw he was aiming at my target, before he could fire first round I said "Hey buddy, your killing my target, stay on yours please" then he tried to deny it so I show him tras target with one 30-06 hole, and three .22 caliber hole in it,,,, he still denied it, but he never shot on my target again.:mad:
 
public rifle ranges got to love them

crawling out from under my rock:

Gents:

Our range is owned by the County Parks & Recreation department. It is staffed by volunteers. Range rules, procedures and protocol are partially dictated by the County AND the insurance provider. We are a regulated range; 15 minutes of shooting followed by how ever long it takes to get people back from downrange. Our emphasis is SAFETY; our goal is for everyone to go home uninjured. We are successful.

We have a wide spectrum of experience on range at any time. We are general use range, meaning that a pistol shooter can be next to a high power shooter or next to someone shooting an MSR. We can have the newest gun owner next to a seasoned national match competitor. So we really can't assume that the shooting public has "common sense" or has been trained or has more than novice experience. We require range users to view a 3-4 minute range safety continuous loop dvd. And we announce at the beginning of each ceasefire the allowable activities during the ceasefire (mess with targets; pickup brass; relax behind our safety line) NO activity is permitted at a shooting bench - including sitting on the stool - during a ceasefire. And no one fires until the RSO's have checked the range clear of people.

I have found that most people change their behavior when they are coached in a firm, clear, calm manner, explaining how to do something in a SAFER manner. We don't yell. Few have to be coached twice. In 6 years I have had two shooters who continued to exhibit UNSAFE behavior after two coaching "moments". We asked them to leave.

Yes, we hear the occasional shooter who take umbrage with our no messing with guns during ceasefire policy. Almost universally they accept that our procedures are to their best benefit when we explain what we want to do and more importantly WHY we do it. If shooters are staying away because they don't like some aspect of how we do business, well, it would be news to me. I see a lot of the same faces week after week.

I think I'm done now.

Watch yer 6!
Dave Renn

crawling back under my rock
 
I know the feeling hooligan.
At an indoor range I used to belong to when a crowd came in and ran their targets out about ten feet and started blasting away on either side of me. I had my target out at the end seventy five feet shooting my 22lr target pistol.
Needless to say my target had multiple 40 and 38 caliber holes all over the sheet.
:mad:
 
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