Fair enough, I shouldn't have put the caps on (never touched anything but lens caps). But it was really the lack of everyone else's attention to safety that bothered me. Looking up and down the firing line anyone could clearly see my chamber flag (the only one) and the 'RO' looked right at my rifle bolt--sitting on top of my range bag.
Public Rifle Ranges Got to love them
- Thread starter Palmetto-Pride
- Start date
We shoot at the Manatee Gun Club (only 1000 yard public range in Florida) and they recently installed numbered markers in the ground at the 100-400 yard paper target lines, corresponding to the bench locations, so that everyone stays "in line" and doesn't shoot through someone else's target.
There are still potential issues because the steel plates are at 565 yards, behind all the paper and the RSO's always ask what range you're going to be shooting at when you arrive to try to minimize problems.
Any shooter would know at first glance down the tube whether there's someone else's target in the way- but yeah, I'm sometimes amazed (and the RSO's tell some crazy stories) at the way "beginner" is re-defined all the time.
Everyone has to learn- but some make no effort. Downright scary, sometimes.
There are still potential issues because the steel plates are at 565 yards, behind all the paper and the RSO's always ask what range you're going to be shooting at when you arrive to try to minimize problems.
Any shooter would know at first glance down the tube whether there's someone else's target in the way- but yeah, I'm sometimes amazed (and the RSO's tell some crazy stories) at the way "beginner" is re-defined all the time.
Everyone has to learn- but some make no effort. Downright scary, sometimes.
Kimbercommander
New member
Common sense isnt so common anymore. Seems the farther east you get the worse it gets too. Not saying that the west coast doesnt have its far share just higher population density as you go east. More idiots per square mile. 
Boomer58cal
New member
Common sense isnt so common anymore. Seems the farther east you get the worse it gets too. Not saying that the west coast doesnt have its far share just higher population density as you go east. More idiots per squaremile.
You haven't been to California much have you.
Boomer
Bamashooter
New member
I Feel For You Guys
I haven't been to a range in over 5yrs. I shoot on family owned land and a good friend's property. Both places offer shooting as far as you want and no other people but the ones you brought.
I haven't been to a range in over 5yrs. I shoot on family owned land and a good friend's property. Both places offer shooting as far as you want and no other people but the ones you brought.
Respectfully, he was correct.
It may sound overbearing, but safety dictates that NO one handles firearms or TOUCHES firearms--in ANY manner--while there are people forward of the firing line.
I am an RSO at two gun clubs, as well as a firearms instructor. I emphasize that rule constantly and consistently. The ONLY exception allowed is in the case of a fully cased firearm coming on or going off the range. If it is coming on, I approach the shooters with, "Hi! How are you today? Please place the cased firearm against the wall and leave it there for now; we have people downrange."
The first violation of that rule gets a polite reminder.
Another violation, and you leave the range next time the line goes hot.
There is no place for complacency when handling firearms. I'm not saying that YOU are--by your use of the ECI and removing your bolt, it shows that you are being safety conscious and that's a good thing. However--safer is always better.
I've found it best to avoid it completely the week before deer season. I once heard a RO teaching one the most basic functions of his firearm. I'm not an expert myself, but you should at least know how to load your weapon and which end the bullets come out of...
And this is why Australia and Canada both have a system of firearms licensure with a written and practical exam which makes sure that you know this basic stuff before you're even allowed to think about buying. When I got my licence in Australia there wasn't a practical handling session like the Canucks have, but AFAIK this has now been rectified. Both countries may do a lot of things "wrong" in the eyes of gun owners, but I think they've got this one right.
And this is why Australia and Canada both have a system of firearms licensure with a written and practical exam which makes sure that you know this basic stuff before you're even allowed to think about buying. When I got my licence in Australia there wasn't a practical handling session like the Canucks have, but AFAIK this has now been rectified. Both countries may do a lot of things "wrong" in the eyes of gun owners, but I think they've got this one right.
I gave up on the public range for these reasons:
- I hated seeing kids lose their hearing when I shot because their adult supervision brought them no eyes and ears. I tried handing out plugs, but got told no or treated rudely too much.
- I hated seeing people play home gunsmith behind me with loaded guns that were somehow jacked up.
-I hated arguing with the RO about the no 3 fast shot rule when I was double tapping a target, then double tapping a second target. While some jackwad was hip shooting an AK without a target 3 tables down!
- I didn't mind the spare bullet holes in my targets so much, but when we call the line cold, unload your rifle. I would always have to tell some person, please clear your chamber now. Apparently at Semi's 4 Newb's gun shop, they don't tell them...remove the mag, then empty the chamber.
So, the solution to crappy public ranges: (Here it is)
-Armed RO's who will enforce the rules. Give them a series of punishments to apply. Maybe have some kind of appeal process.
-Punishment for dangerous acts... Basic rules violation like not wearing ears= go home for the day. Point your gun at another person=banned for 3 months. Handle guns on a cold range=mandatory training before being allowed back, etc.
-Mandatory range introduction training to be held be the RO 1/2 hour before open. You need this before you can shoot there at all.
-rules committee of experienced shooters and state officials.
-budget to grow the range and take action as issues arise.
The way to get mandatory gun training is the same way we got mandatory birth control training. Put it in the schools.
- Eddie the Eagle- Stop, Tell a responsible adult.
- Intro to guns - 4 safety rules, training of 4 rules, loading and unloading, making safe, I.e staging and securing a firearm which is somehow in the situation, target shooting, shooting at jugs to show the destructiveness of ammunition, last how guns are used daily in society to make the world a better place.
- Basic tactical use - range safety while moving, using firearms safely to solve tactical problems(like IDPA), when to call 911, how to make contact with police/fire/ambulance when firearms are in the situation.
I'm thinking schools could possibly use hand me down guns and ammo from LEO, crime confiscations or military surplus
- I hated seeing kids lose their hearing when I shot because their adult supervision brought them no eyes and ears. I tried handing out plugs, but got told no or treated rudely too much.
- I hated seeing people play home gunsmith behind me with loaded guns that were somehow jacked up.
-I hated arguing with the RO about the no 3 fast shot rule when I was double tapping a target, then double tapping a second target. While some jackwad was hip shooting an AK without a target 3 tables down!
- I didn't mind the spare bullet holes in my targets so much, but when we call the line cold, unload your rifle. I would always have to tell some person, please clear your chamber now. Apparently at Semi's 4 Newb's gun shop, they don't tell them...remove the mag, then empty the chamber.
So, the solution to crappy public ranges: (Here it is)
-Armed RO's who will enforce the rules. Give them a series of punishments to apply. Maybe have some kind of appeal process.
-Punishment for dangerous acts... Basic rules violation like not wearing ears= go home for the day. Point your gun at another person=banned for 3 months. Handle guns on a cold range=mandatory training before being allowed back, etc.
-Mandatory range introduction training to be held be the RO 1/2 hour before open. You need this before you can shoot there at all.
-rules committee of experienced shooters and state officials.
-budget to grow the range and take action as issues arise.
The way to get mandatory gun training is the same way we got mandatory birth control training. Put it in the schools.
- Eddie the Eagle- Stop, Tell a responsible adult.
- Intro to guns - 4 safety rules, training of 4 rules, loading and unloading, making safe, I.e staging and securing a firearm which is somehow in the situation, target shooting, shooting at jugs to show the destructiveness of ammunition, last how guns are used daily in society to make the world a better place.
- Basic tactical use - range safety while moving, using firearms safely to solve tactical problems(like IDPA), when to call 911, how to make contact with police/fire/ambulance when firearms are in the situation.
I'm thinking schools could possibly use hand me down guns and ammo from LEO, crime confiscations or military surplus
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Palmetto-Pride
New member
I as I got my stuff together and got my truck loaded up to leave the range I noticed that as the range was cold this guy was handing his AR and actually had it in his hand and was turning toward other people....his buddy quickly grabbed the gun and turned it back down range, but he still failed to tell him that he shouldn't even be handling it in the first place. I sat there in my truck thinking I should politely let this guy know and explain to him that while people are down range he shouldn't even touch his weapon, but I didn't I drove off thinking I would come across as a A-hole, but now I regret that I didn't take the time to let him know.....maybe he was just ignorant about how things should be done at the range next time I will take the chance of being a A-hole......
With respect, and not to jack the thread....
...but this is covered in our Constitution.
That it is, but just look at the hoops some people in some US states are having to jump through now. I've done the Canadian course and jumped the paperwork hoops that go with getting the "unrestricted" licence (excludes pistols and high-capacity centrefire semi-autos). I can go down to the store tomorrow, put my cash down and walk out with an armful of rifles & shotguns and the ammo to fit them. I could buy out the entire shop, and nobody would care.
All I have to do is show my licence at the counter when I pay, and I'm good to go. No Form 4473 or whatever it's called, no phone call or electronic request for a background check (that's built into the licence application), nothing.
Same goes for bullets, primers, powders.
I would argue that I'm better off than a lot of "Constitutionally guaranteed" Americans. For all your right to bear arms, you (plural) seem to be stumbling over a lot of paperwork to get there. And how many times have you looked at some idiot being unsafe on a public range and thought "That guy needs a few lessons in common sense before he's allowed in here again?" Those lessons (like the criminal background check) are part of that Canadian and Aussie licensure process.
...but this is covered in our Constitution.
That it is, but just look at the hoops some people in some US states are having to jump through now. I've done the Canadian course and jumped the paperwork hoops that go with getting the "unrestricted" licence (excludes pistols and high-capacity centrefire semi-autos). I can go down to the store tomorrow, put my cash down and walk out with an armful of rifles & shotguns and the ammo to fit them. I could buy out the entire shop, and nobody would care.
All I have to do is show my licence at the counter when I pay, and I'm good to go. No Form 4473 or whatever it's called, no phone call or electronic request for a background check (that's built into the licence application), nothing.
Same goes for bullets, primers, powders.
I would argue that I'm better off than a lot of "Constitutionally guaranteed" Americans. For all your right to bear arms, you (plural) seem to be stumbling over a lot of paperwork to get there. And how many times have you looked at some idiot being unsafe on a public range and thought "That guy needs a few lessons in common sense before he's allowed in here again?" Those lessons (like the criminal background check) are part of that Canadian and Aussie licensure process.
madmo44mag
New member
I guess I’m lucky and shoot with a group.
We have earned the trust of he range and call our own range.
Everyone watches each other and we are very safety oriented.
What scare hell out of me is when you go to an indoor range and there are bullet holes in the lane dividers.
We have earned the trust of he range and call our own range.
Everyone watches each other and we are very safety oriented.
What scare hell out of me is when you go to an indoor range and there are bullet holes in the lane dividers.
Palmetto-Pride
New member
The right to own a firearm is, but not the right to be unsafe with it at a public range.... public as in "National Forrest" not privately owned land. Not sure exactly what your point is about......"but this is covered in our Constitution"
His point is maybe we should have a similar licensing process. Something that ensures everyone who buys a gun has been trained how to be safe with it.
In concept, I like this idea or training before purchase. I tell people this is the right way to do the process of getting a first gun. It often falls on deaf ears.
Where I struggle is government mandated training before we buy. Maybe the government could offer training, or accept NRA training to give us a card to allow 50 state + air and sea CCW, eliminate all currently banned and regulated guns, including import restrictions. That way I get a card and can buy silenced full auto AR's without paperwork or hassle. Or maybe just mail order a custom gun without an FFL?? It should also nullify state laws which restrict gun types, capacities, drop tests, etc...
I'm seeing myself becoming real flexible all of a sudden!
In concept, I like this idea or training before purchase. I tell people this is the right way to do the process of getting a first gun. It often falls on deaf ears.
Where I struggle is government mandated training before we buy. Maybe the government could offer training, or accept NRA training to give us a card to allow 50 state + air and sea CCW, eliminate all currently banned and regulated guns, including import restrictions. That way I get a card and can buy silenced full auto AR's without paperwork or hassle. Or maybe just mail order a custom gun without an FFL?? It should also nullify state laws which restrict gun types, capacities, drop tests, etc...
I'm seeing myself becoming real flexible all of a sudden!
Nathan, good point. I can understand the nervousness of people who wouldn't want a licensure process put into the hands of dull-witted government-employed clock-watchers with a rabid lust for gun control.
In both Australia and Canada, I had the instruction and the test administered to me by senior members (RSOs or instructors) of shooting clubs or by lifelong sporting shooters/hunters. IOW they were pro-gun by definition. There's no reason the NRA and/or similar bodies couldn't also perform this function in the US.
The involvement of the bureaucracy was AFAIK limited to checking off the fact that I had passed the test, passed the background police check and my ID details were legit, and issuing me my licence. And collecting the fee, of course, but that's a whole 'nother debate.
In both Oz and Canada, there is a separate set of hoops to be jumped through for those wishing to buy handguns or (for the Canadians, who are allowed to have such things) high-capacity (>5) centrefire semiautos. That isn't me at the moment, so I can't speak to that one.
In both Australia and Canada, I had the instruction and the test administered to me by senior members (RSOs or instructors) of shooting clubs or by lifelong sporting shooters/hunters. IOW they were pro-gun by definition. There's no reason the NRA and/or similar bodies couldn't also perform this function in the US.
The involvement of the bureaucracy was AFAIK limited to checking off the fact that I had passed the test, passed the background police check and my ID details were legit, and issuing me my licence. And collecting the fee, of course, but that's a whole 'nother debate.
In both Oz and Canada, there is a separate set of hoops to be jumped through for those wishing to buy handguns or (for the Canadians, who are allowed to have such things) high-capacity (>5) centrefire semiautos. That isn't me at the moment, so I can't speak to that one.
Boomer58cal
New member
+1
You do have the right to be unsafe.( the constitution covers freedom not safety)
The privately owned range has the right to boot you out for doing so.
And... the police have the right to arrest you if you break any laws in the process.
It is perfectly legal to be an idiot.
Boomer
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tahunua001
New member
as horrible of a precedent that this sets.... you have a point.
it may be legal to threaten the safety of others but that does mean we have to tolerate it until someone get's hurt.
Boomer58cal
New member
Good point
Boomer
Boomer
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Let's not wander off into rights and politics, sil vous plait...