Protesters turn violent. What do you do?

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How many news channels does one need to surf...
JohnKSa said:
If there's anything serious going on in your area, you'll get the message pretty quickly.
In this area, if you tune to a news station on the radio and there's a big local story then you hear the big local story. News stations that don't air the news don't stay on the air very long. Maybe it's different in your area.
Sure check the news, like I check the traffic too...
And that's exactly what I said initially.
JohnKSa said:
I'm not saying you have to listen to the news the whole time, but it does make sense to turn it on and listen for a few minutes when you start your drive.
If there's a reasonable potential for violent protests due to national or local current events then it might make sense to listen to the news the whole time you're driving. Especially if you're going to be out after dark and driving through an urban area.
 
ok, we agree then... :) I guess I had to go full circle to see it.

I remember about a couple years ago around thanksgiving time IIRC there was the Ferguson protests destroying their city and copycat protests happening elsewhere and I was driving home from out of state with my family... we have to go thru downtown to get home, and yes I was glued to the news. I see what your saying.
 
You're missing the point. The question was: "What do you do if you find yourself in a violent protest?" The problem is that once you're in the middle of a riot, you're pretty much screwed. There's no good way to extricate yourself from it safely. If you want to defend yourself from riots, the way to do it is to stay out of them.
You're missing the point that before those vehicles were stopped on the interstate, it wasn't blocked, and there were no news reports of any problems there.

Saying "stay out" is just empty rhetoric that has nothing to do with the OP's questions and ignores the reality that it just isn't always possible to "stay out".
 
Carry a poster board and magic marker. Make a sign for the protest and join in.

That's a silly suggestion - glad you liked the link. Greg's site is quite good on various issues.
 
Carry a poster board and magic marker. Make a sign for the protest and join in.

I'm not sure that is a bad idea! At least to get out of the the immediate threat. I am afraid I'd be hit with tear gas, tased and hauled off to jail. That still might be a preferred option...
 
You're missing the point that before those vehicles were stopped on the interstate, it wasn't blocked, and there were no news reports of any problems there
So, with no warning at all things went from traffic being allowed to pass unhindered to traffic being stopped and vehicle contents being extracted and burned? No large crowds holding signs and chanting were visible before traffic was halted? No news coverage of protests taking place?

So far the pattern has been that crowds congregate to protest and then eventually, typically after darkness falls, things turn nasty.

But for the sake of argument, let's say that there really was no warning at all--implausible as that might sound.

It is certainly true that one can't always avoid dangerous situations since they can arise quickly in some cases. I think someone made that point earlier in the thread along with pointing out that one should still try to remain situationally aware even though it's not a 100% guarantee of success.
JohnKSa said:
That said, it's impossible to always avoid dangerous situations, even if one is very situationally aware. The fact that in some circumstances you might not get information in time to avoid a problem doesn't justify never even trying.
Saying "stay out" is just empty rhetoric that has nothing to do with the OP's questions and ignores the reality that it just isn't always possible to "stay out".
The problem is that once you're into the middle of a violent protest/riot, your options for getting out of it safely are very limited and are very poor if you are targeted. That's the unfortunate truth.

Glen's link provides some tips on what to do, starting off with the observation that avoidance is key. The rest of the tips are pretty grim--as they should be given the harsh reality of the situation. The author makes it clear that trying to use a gun is almost certainly a non-starter.

The bottom line is that people tuning into this thread for advice on how to solve this problem with a CCW are going to be disappointed. Some situations just don't lend themselves to being solved with a CCW and some, like this one, are so difficult to solve that the only really useful advice is to avoid the situation if at all possible.

Far from being "empty rhetoric", the point that avoidance is key should help underscore how important it is to do everything possible to stay away. As mentioned before (and reiterated in Glen's link), these situations are not like a typical criminal attack which can be difficult to detect in advance. Violent protests are composed of large numbers of people congregating in fairly predictable areas (urban areas, especially downtown) making a lot of noise up to and including gunshots, generating lots of news coverage (that's one goal of protests after all), potentially lighting fires and causing smoke, etc. Avoidance is not only critical, but it's considerably easier than it would be for more run of the mill criminal attacks.

Using your logic, the authorities should put out bulletins/tips/hints/instructions on how to drive in high water in the case of flooding. Of course they currently to give the accurate advice ("empty rhetoric" I suppose you would say) that there is no way to drive through high water safely in a typical street vehicle and that therefore people should avoid low areas that typically flood during times when flooding is occurring or likely to occur and should never drive through high water.
 
So, with no warning at all things went from traffic being allowed to pass unhindered to traffic being stopped and vehicle contents being extracted and burned? No large crowds holding signs and chanting were visible before traffic was halted? No news coverage of protests taking place?
Exactly.

There were no protesters on the interstate until they swarmed out there and started stopping vehicles.

"News coverage of protests" doesn't often give GPS coordinates or street addresses

The bottom line is that people tuning into this thread for advice on how to solve this problem with a CCW are going to be disappointed
They will be if the only advice offered is "don't be there".

The only real answer to the problem is be prepared to make sudden decisions based on the exact situation where you are, and don't rely on internet speculation.
 
I think that this whole huge and complex issue is going to have to be something you think of on the fly as it is happening, once you have fully gone over castle and stand your ground laws for the state that you are traveling in, and understand as fully as you can those laws, and then, as was said, situational awareness and careful planning as soon as you see signs of things getting out of hand before it gets really ugly.

First is to keep your dial on news as you travel, second is keep your eyes and mind as far aheadof your car as you can. The main thing is to keep the heck away from immoral and violent people so that you aren't brought down to their level.

One thing to consider is whether you just dump your vehicle and bail, and that may be better than facing an incoming group of violent, car smashing crazies. Dumping the car can create a barrier both ways, to slow the crazies down, and to keep others from going farther into the danger zone. Maybe not a good idea, either, but keep it in mind.

Dumping the car brings a lot of negatives into your situation. You may lose some legal protections, you may be seen as making a stupid decision that exposed you to further danger. I would only bail if I genuinely felt that I was in danger, personal danger, not just expecting a rowdy crowd to smash my car. I'd not go to that extreme unless I already heard shots or saw really dangerous behaviors, maybe smoke or an overturned vehicle, and if I had a pretty clear route of escape behind me.

Then there is the question of passengers. Dumping the car and dragging a passenger out into a rough situation leaves you at least partially responsible for their safety. If I had my kids with me in the car, the only answer would be to get them in the foot wells with doors locked and alamo up.

The protests/riots here have rarely been as violent as ones on foreign shores when people are killed or injured. the largest problem as I see it is when outside forces come in with nothing in mind but causing mayhem. It's happened in europe, anarchists come in by the hundreds just to enjoy the bloodshed and vandalism.

God help you in one of those situations because the things are fluid, dangerous, and volatile. They may pass you by and move on to the next, they may make an example of you.

A few years back, a gang of punks were blocking a street somewhere back east. The poor guy wanted through, and honked. The mob attacked, and beat him to death, IIRC. The peaceful (maybe...) gathering of a bunch of hoodlums turned into a violent riot just because he honked his horn, and he died.
 
There were no protesters on the interstate until they swarmed out there and started stopping vehicles.
Your response makes it obvious that there were "swarms" of protesters in the near vicinity of the interstate before they went out onto the interstate and started stopping vehicles.

My advice is to stay away from swarms of protesters before they turn violent so that you're not there when they swarm out and start stopping vehicles.
"News coverage of protests" doesn't often give GPS coordinates or street addresses
We've already established that it's not 100% possible to avoid violent protests but that it's always a good idea to try anyway.

But most importantly, a specific street address or GPS coordinates are not important at all. All we need to know is that there's a protest in the downtown area and that is sufficient information to avoid the area. If one is already in the downtown area then more information is required, but it's still not necessary to know more than a general area--certainly a specific street address is much more precise than is needed.
They will be if the only advice offered is "don't be there".
No, they will be disappointed period. Because this isn't a problem that can be solved with a CCW.
The only real answer to the problem is be prepared to make sudden decisions based on the exact situation where you are...
So after saying that avoidance advice is empty rhetoric, your contribution is to "be prepared to make sudden decisions based on the situation"--to basically play it by ear. And you believe that's more helpful than telling people to avoid a potentially deadly situation that is quite easy to avoid?
...and don't rely on internet speculation.
On the one hand you're complaining that the advice from people over the internet is not specific enough and on the other you're saying that getting advice over the internet isn't a good idea. That's like doing a restaurant review and complaining that the food is inedible AND that the portions are too small.
 
I'm really thankful that I don't go into the cities for work or much of anything any more. Would it be wrong to say that the first thing I would do is yank my plates off? :D
 
if anyone is going to read this thread and learn from it, it wont be because its 10 pages long.... Further bantering will only cloud the answer we've already covered it,

keep in touch with current events and monitor the news for any protests. Everything you should be doing is avoidance and/or to get away. If you get caught up in the violence anyways, follow the advice in the article Glen posted. There really isn't much else you can do.
 
I think most of us agreen here you would be better of not being there.

I think thea in take away is it definitely won't hurt to have a ccw on hand but do not let that ccw give you a false sense of security. This is a situation that simply can be solved easily with a ccw. It may help, but there are no guarantees you get out safely just because you have one.
 
John,

With all due respect, the videos showing the "protesters" swarming the highway showed that it happened very quickly. Once the first few cars stop, you are pretty much blocked in. While I hate to just ditch the car, I think it might be the best idea, especially if you are near the protesters. Things are replaceable while human lives aren't I would most away from the protesters and "address" any threats that either got in my way or tried to attack me.
 
You have screwed up if you find yourself in the middle of a riot. (it ain't a protest). In a protest drive on by. I consider a riot the same as an ambush, you drive through an ambush if possible. If you can't drive through it you have to fight with what you have, hopefully some type of firearm. This reminds me, I need to carry extra ammo. I won't willingly allow some punk to lay hands on me or mine..
 
Do we have any thoughts on dumping the vehicle regarding putting a barrier up to stop traffic from going into danger? A person who dumps his car and runs is probably screwed already, and swerving and blocking the incoming road seems like a good idea.

The only downside is that it may hamper first responders, but once again, that may be a meaningless concern.

I think that this isn't a big concern for myself, but Lord almighty, I don't want to face it.

Don't assume that it's all going to happen at protesting sites. What h your back at soccer and hockey games. I think that it was around here that a huge crowd tore down the fences at a concert and went in.
 
I well and seriously believe the police should look to Israel and do as they do and adopt suppressed .22 rifles for the purpose of violent crowd control during riots.

Much more effective than tear gas or rubber bullets, but unlikely to cause a fatality when aimed at the legs and knees.
 
Disagree. Against everything in us law to randomly use deadly force against people, and it would destroy everything our police officers work for. When a person is killed by either a ricochet or other accident, God help us all.

Gas can work and should be laid down with fire hoses. Water cannons set to stun would be like mass water boarding. Why don't we have full auto rubbe rubber shot mounted machine guns with one ton capacity?

Is anyone here old enough to remember the rubber bullets used in Europe? Half pound, one inch, three inches long? They were fired at the ground in front of crowds, and would bounce through the crowd like pinballs. People had broken bones, and a few died.

How smart would it be for riot police to show up at a blm riot and kill people?

Stupid is what it would be.
 
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