Protective vests and being honest

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Ballistic Clothing

I have thought about getting one of the vest that are integrated into another garment such as a Carhart style coat or a leather jacket. My thinking was not so much as street wear but a grab and go for home defense. Spare ammo, cell phone, flash light in the pockets. At three AM when I go out to investigate noises coming from the barn (is it a thief or a critter) I have everything I need plus more protection than just a bath robe and rubber boots. I may do it if I have some extra cash to spend. In the mean time it's bath robe, rubber boots and Mossberg 590.
 
...walking around in it as a civilian without a high-risk occupation (or an active threat) is getting pretty close to black-helicopter thinking.
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I think that's what anti-gunners think of us, or anyone who would arm themselves and carry on a daily basis.

I've never needed to defend myself with a firearm. I could make an argument that it's 100% unnecesary to carry, and anectdotaly - I have a pretty good case to back that up, over four decades of never being attacked or having to deploy a firearm.

Most people on this forum don't buy that argument, it's all been debated out before to the satisfaction of most people on this board and most people here beleive that in most cases (not all) it's prudent to carry.

I'm making two points:

1) Barring heat or a situation that would make wearing a vest extremely uncomfortable, or impossible (day at the beach) - logically, all the reasons for carrying would also seem to indicate wearing body armor. Put on body armor for the same reasons you take a gun with you.

2) I think the main reason it doesn't get more attention in some people's tactical thinking is that like me, they like guns, their imagination is captured by guns, they can envision a situation where a gun might save their life. But body armor is boring.
 
I'm not a cop. I'm not in Iraq. I'm not in Afghanistan. I don't even live in the ghetto. If things were so bad I were afraid of getting shot every day, I'd move somewhere else.

Also, the weather in my state is hot. Even if I were so concerned as to wear a vest, I'd probably have to skip it between the end of May and the end of October.

For the most part, armor seems like some paranoid gecko45 thing. Chances are, if someone is that concerned with saving their life, they would be better off backing off the bacon cheeseburgers and spending the armor money for a gym membership or defensive driving classes instead of buying expensive armor every couple years.

You are 60X more likely to die of heart disease or cancer than by being shot.

You are 13X more like to die of a stroke than by being shot.

You are 7X more likely to die from diabetes than by being shot.

You are 4X more likely to die in a car accident than by being shot.
 
I am not that paranoid. I think a vest is a bit over the top. Why not also carry a few grenades. they would be very helpful with a flash mob or at least a few flash bangs
 
Chances are, if someone is that concerned with saving their life, they would be better off backing off the bacon cheeseburgers and spending the armor money for a gym membership or defensive driving classes instead of buying expensive armor every couple years.

You are 60X more likely to die of heart disease or cancer than by being shot.

You are 13X more like to die of a stroke than by being shot.

You are 7X more likely to die from diabetes than by being shot.

You are 4X more likely to die in a car accident than by being shot.
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This is the same old chestnut used to argue against purchasing and carrying a gun.

And OBTW - body armor increases your chances of surviving a car crash :)
 
Body armor also increases your odds of surviving a bear attack - not to mention increasing your odds of surviving being attacked by a bull.. good to know if you either find yourself in Yellowstone or in the bullring...
 
Countzer0, have you ever worn body armor for an extended period of time? It's hot and it's uncomfortable, even in the winter. If your risk assessment calls for body armor, so be it. Just be aware that it is very uncomfortable.
 
This is the same old chestnut used to argue against purchasing and carrying a gun.

And OBTW - body armor increases your chances of surviving a car crash
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Maybe they're right ;). But it isn't that hard to justify carrying a pistol, and especially if you already have one.

Just how much does armor increase the odds of surviving a car crash? Armor does have to be replaced every few years, so the expenses just keep compounding. I wonder if defensive driving classes would be a better investment for all that money.
 
I am willing to bet most people that think a vest for every day wear is a great idea has never worn body armor for any amount of time.
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As someone who has had to wear a vest every day, all day, for quite a while, I agree.

They are very uncomfortable, something you really can't appreciate until you wear one all day for a while. Essentially no heat escapes through the vest, so you will probably wind up soaked in sweat under the vest even in the winter time. When I was wearing one, all I could think about most of the time was taking it off....which is distracting, and not very good for situational awareness. The more you move while wearing one, the less comfortable you will be. I think most cops can stand them because they spend much of their time in air-conditioned patrol cars. How police on foot stand them, I have no idea.

They also really don't offer that much protection. Lower belly, groin, neck, head, all exposed, and all potentially fatal places to get hit. There are also two gaping holes that lead right into your heart-lung region, if the bad guy happens to be somewhat to your side instead of directly in front/behind you. And they only really protect you from pistol caliber rounds, unless you buy a really heavy one, and then it's going to be far more uncomfortable.

And after all that, they are still only a passive defense -- the bad guy can just finish you off with a shot to the head, after he realizes that a couple shots to the chest took you down but didn't kill you.

If you think you are likely to get shot, then you might want to wear a vest. If you are only as likely to be shot as the rest of the population, then you are probably going to be suffering needlessly wearing a vest
 
I have a used interceptor that the army traded in and when I say used I mean used. I highly doubt it would stop a 22 solid point. All it really is now is a beefy plate carrier and it stays besides my bed along with my carbine.

I would leave it in the trunk or something but don't really want to wear it around.

Also as far as gun haters not liking it or getting mad. Who cares??? Really. And another thing is that body armor is purely a defensive tool why would it bother them if I wear it. Now I can understand if I stay out in the sun to long and my brain bakes, grabs a trauma plate and beats people in the head with it the whole time running around in just my interceptor body armor. Yea I could understand people being mad. Other than that they have no business what I wear.

I got the armor in a trade. If I had 500 to spend I would go buy something gun related because as other people have said armor is boring. If it doesn't go bang I don't really want it and am only willing to invest a small amount of time and money to maintain it ( girlfriend included )
 
Just how much does armor increase the odds of surviving a car crash? -Kozak6

Seat belts and air bags are more effective but at one time cops didn't have airbags and some often didn't wear seatbelts.:eek: A few were saved from the blunt trauma of the steering wheel during a collision by their ballistic vests. Some bullriders apparently are using Kevlar vests but pretty sure it'll be hard to prove effective against bear attacks.
I still have a very good vest but if my schedule or daily routine suggested a need for it I'd try very hard to make some changes. I'd be better served by toting a 5# fire extinguisher, I have a knack for dumping one of those every few years.:rolleyes: Come to think of it it's hard to imagine an attacker making his way through a cloud of dry chemical extinguisher powder.
 
They were hot, they were a pain in the butt, and they were heavy (that was when infantry walked and we had enough crap to carry).

Fast forward to 1974. I got into LE, bought one, later was issued one. They were hot, and a pain in the butt.

I'm not saying they are a bad ideal for Soldiers and LE now, I just don't like them.

I sure as heck aint gonna wear one now.
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Vests are still hot, and still a pain in the butt!!

I know that problems can happen any time in any location. Yet, if I were going somewhere where I felt I needed to were a vest, I would have to ask myself do I really need to go there? and I believe that the answer would be no. IMHO one of the most important things anyone can do for their protection is stay out of dangerous places. Most of the time we have no business going to locations were we may be placed in danger. Common sense will prevent a lot of problems.
 
Frequently, you'll see cops out in the cold, wearing regular shirts or maybe a thin jumpsuit. They don't look cold.

Ever wonder why?

Body armor = portable sauna. On a cold day, it will STILL make you sweat.

On a hot day? I have lost 7-10 pounds in a SINGLE SHIFT during the summer time.

Sure, a good vest will stop MOST pistol calibers. There are some that will defeat body armor--with the exception of Level III or IV with titanium or ceramic plates. Those are REALLY hot.

And, there's another factor....anyone here who has worn armor can appreciate this one.

You are on duty, on patrol. The weather has been warm--about 80 degrees. Most folks are nice and comfortable in their summer weight clothing.

You are somewhat miserable. You have been sweating nonstop since the start of watch, and you still have half a shift to go. Business is kinda slow, so you decide to go 10-7 for lunch.

After calling out with Dispatch, you nip over to Subway for a sandwich to go. Back in the patrol unit, you head to a good lunch spot--good visibility and a bit of seclusion. No surprises while you eat, eh?:)

Open the window, back the car in, get out and lean on the trunk. As you raise the sandwich, your upper body motion causes the body armor to move away from your chest.

Guess what comes out?

Funk. Pure-D, unmitigated, undiluted, 100% pure quill FUNK. The type that says, "AHHHHHH! GO WASH YOUR HIND END!!!! YOU STINK!!!!

Can anyone relate to that? :D
 
You have most on here debating on weather or not to wear it or atleast maybe wear I'n unsafe areas. It's a personal preference i guess. I'm a LEO, have a level 111 siting at home never worn one on duty, never know from one minute to the next who you will pull over or the dangerous situations you may find yourself I'n. Especially around 2-3 am which is the shift i like to work. I've had it I'n my car a couple of times I'n case and said I'd don it in the event but really i guess I'll take my chances and rather like to think all my range experience, plenty of ammo and using my head and prayer will continue to bring me home. Just my take. Feel the need. Get one and wear it, if not then don't.
 
Countzer0, have you ever worn body armor for an extended period of time? It's hot and it's uncomfortable, even in the winter. If your risk assessment calls for body armor, so be it. Just be aware that it is very uncomfortable.
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I used to regularly wear a vest when going to training and when at public ranges. In the winter, I thought it was great to wear. It kept my core body temperature up very nicely.

As for being uncomfortable, that depends on a lot of factors concerning fit. I had one vest that I found no more uncomfortable than wearing a heavy duty winter vest, which really wasn't uncomfortable at all, just a bit bulky. So if you have an improperly fitted and adjusted vest, it wil be uncomfortable. However like carrying a gun, if you make a few changes in how you do things, one of the lighter weight vests, say Level II, aren't too shabby and a really thin Level IIa vest may be terrific.
 
body armour is heavier and more of a pain in the military than a vest that a cop can pull over his head and wear w/some velcro.

the bottom line most people think it is a pain or think life is too short or think it is paranoid or: choose any reason here.

I know many law enforcement agencies issue a vest but they will not issue a vest unless you sign something saying you will wear it. This could be a cop on the beat or an older, more experienced vet & LT now behind a desk. Many do choose to wear them though. Even in these agencies, many choose not to wear them even though they have more reason too. I myself do not wear a vest, but from my experiences they really aren't that much of a pain anyways. They help you stay in shape too. Many can be worn without someone even knowing the wiser too. I don't see anything wrong with it, but it is uncommon and rare, yes. Maybe in 30yrs it will be the norm? who knows, I'll be tipping back a tom collins and on my way out by then anyhow(or maybe just tipping back some water I had to pay for because my well water isn't free anymore).
 
There have been many officers that after being shot while wearing soft body armor such as Second Chance have immediatly returned fire and killed their assailant.
Richard Davis would demo to Police Chiefs by shooting himself with a pistol while wearing his vest then return fire hitting a target.
I wear body armor all the time when going on Ride Along's with various agencies across the nation.

My agency there was no option, if you were on the street you wore your issued vest or got days off without pay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaS_2l8nGdg&feature=player_embedded
 
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Unless you go in harm's way on a regular basis, there is no reason or need to wear body armor.

Having written that and read the posts here (both sane and not-so-sane) it might actually make sense to wear one during hunting season--provided other hunters are using pistols, shotguns, or muzzle loaders. A vest below Level-IV won't stop center-fire rifle bullets and no one wears a level-IV except SWAT entry teams.

Been there, done that.
 
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