pros and cons of .32acp
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So lets see, we make a rude post about someone's ability to have a discussion, and then we flippantly dismiss those who take issue with said rudeness as being overly sensitive. It's really starting to sound like someone just wants to stir the pot, methinks there is a word for people who stir the pot on internet forums
.I've stayed out of this one. Just lurked around since page 1, eating my popcorn, but...
For a guy who isn't trying to be rude, you're on one heckuva roll!
Not everyone likes my posts or agrees with me, but I consider them all friends. I try to treat them with respect, even when we disagree, but YOU sir are really something else.
Oh yeah, up with the .32!
For a guy who isn't trying to be rude, you're on one heckuva roll!
Not everyone likes my posts or agrees with me, but I consider them all friends. I try to treat them with respect, even when we disagree, but YOU sir are really something else.
Oh yeah, up with the .32!
To each, his own, but if you currently own one and enjoy shooting it, press on. I'd also opine that the .32 ACP is far too expensive for fun shooting, and sub-marginal as a real defensive caliber. For those uses a good, reliable .22 LR has as much utility. I'd say that the .25 ACP, and most of the .380's now available are equally marginal.
If the question is whether to acquire a gun in one of the above calibers, in lieu of a .22 for fun or something more appropriate for defensive use, I'd shop for a good 9mm if recoil is an issue, or, if not, then a .40 or .45. The 9mm is cheaper to feed than the 'little' auto pistol rounds, and still has defensive capability and the .40+ calibers have more clout.
JMHO, YMMV, Rod
If the question is whether to acquire a gun in one of the above calibers, in lieu of a .22 for fun or something more appropriate for defensive use, I'd shop for a good 9mm if recoil is an issue, or, if not, then a .40 or .45. The 9mm is cheaper to feed than the 'little' auto pistol rounds, and still has defensive capability and the .40+ calibers have more clout.
JMHO, YMMV, Rod
Webley,
Sounds like you have it all figured out.
BTW, inferior is an adjective that describes comparison.
A .44 Rem Mag is not a tactical handgun cartridge.
While most handgun cartridges are inferior to most rifle cartridges, it is logical fallacy to extrapolate that all handgun cartridges are inferior. If you know that which is superior, why would you settle for the inferior cartridge to save your life? Does that make sense to you?
A full-size 1911A1 is not difficult to conceal, although, fully loaded, is heavy. I can stuff one inside of my waistband and conceal it with a t-shirt.
I'd go with a Model 60 being easier to conceal than your .32. I'd much rather have 5 .38 Special 158 grain LSWC +P rounds than a magazine full of .32 ammo.
Don't but any more gun magazines. They are entertainment. They have no application to reality.
Make a wise investment: buy a Sig P-239 in .40 S&W. That will accord you a better chance of remaining above ground.
Sounds like you have it all figured out.
BTW, inferior is an adjective that describes comparison.
A .44 Rem Mag is not a tactical handgun cartridge.
While most handgun cartridges are inferior to most rifle cartridges, it is logical fallacy to extrapolate that all handgun cartridges are inferior. If you know that which is superior, why would you settle for the inferior cartridge to save your life? Does that make sense to you?
A full-size 1911A1 is not difficult to conceal, although, fully loaded, is heavy. I can stuff one inside of my waistband and conceal it with a t-shirt.
I'd go with a Model 60 being easier to conceal than your .32. I'd much rather have 5 .38 Special 158 grain LSWC +P rounds than a magazine full of .32 ammo.
Don't but any more gun magazines. They are entertainment. They have no application to reality.
Make a wise investment: buy a Sig P-239 in .40 S&W. That will accord you a better chance of remaining above ground.
Hi Bill DeShivs,
What part of adequate penetration confuses you?
Have you actually read the FBI Firearms Test? What part of it do you think is flawed? Granted, it was conducted for law enforcement. However, its principles were sound.
Please tell me, Bill, how you think bad guys stop trying to kill good guys. I'll help you with the answer. There are but two methods of ending bad guys' carnage: interrupt their CNS, reduce their blood pressure to zero. In your estimation, what is the best way of achieving either objective without your winding up in the identical condition?
What part of adequate penetration confuses you?
Have you actually read the FBI Firearms Test? What part of it do you think is flawed? Granted, it was conducted for law enforcement. However, its principles were sound.
Please tell me, Bill, how you think bad guys stop trying to kill good guys. I'll help you with the answer. There are but two methods of ending bad guys' carnage: interrupt their CNS, reduce their blood pressure to zero. In your estimation, what is the best way of achieving either objective without your winding up in the identical condition?
Nothing wrong with .32ACP. The factory rounds are anemic and costly. My reloads are far from anemic. I have Savages and Ortiges so recoil is nothing. I even did armed security work in a suit with multiple handguns simply because of my guns slim profile I could easily wear my double shoulder holster Ortiges rig with a back up Savage and have no bumps in my suit with four extra mags for the Ortiges and two for the Savage with plenty of room for handcuffs and a radio.
A well placed hit is a well placed hit....
A well placed hit is a well placed hit....
LockedBreech
New member
[edited: not worth it, mod please delete or not as you please]
Whirlwind06
New member
The merits of .32 ACP aside I find it disappointing to see "gun people" deciding what someone needs or wants. Don't we get enough of that from gun grabbers?
Cheapshooter
New member
Two of several.
There is also incapacitation from pain, the body can actually go into shock from intense pain, and there is psychological shock just from realizing you have been shot.
Whirlwind06,
Amen Brother.
SanSouci,
On the concealability of the Model 60:
I am sitting here with a P3AT in my pocket that is 10% larger than a P-32, but far far easier and more comfortable to conceal than the bulbous cylinder of a Model 60. You remember from another thread that I am not unduly afraid of a low round count, and kinda like my wheelguns. SOMETHING had to go cosmically "wrong" for me to favor a .380 over a .38 snubbie, ESPECIALLY when my primary EDC is still a K-.38 (15-3)...and concealability and comfort are that thing.
Evil Monkey,
I had a conversation in a LGS recently while attempting to find a pistol small enough for my smallish wife to wear while jogging. A bearded (CUSS)tomer who's opinion I did not ask for butted in and said something like "She needs a .45 or a .40 at least, and proceeded to recommend all sorts of things that were way out of the parameters of a jogging pistol.
I told him I had a P3AT and was rather fond of it, after which he advised me not to shoot anyone lest I tick them off.
I asked what he carried. "A Sig 220, .45ACP".
"Let's see it". I said
He hesitated. "Well...It's out in my truck".
I patted my pocket and replied "Exactly."
You see my wife, who usually carries an XD-.40 Subcompact, finds my P3AT pretty uncomfortable...but the P-32 would leave her ARMED when she might otherwise not be.
Amen Brother.
SanSouci,
On the concealability of the Model 60:
I am sitting here with a P3AT in my pocket that is 10% larger than a P-32, but far far easier and more comfortable to conceal than the bulbous cylinder of a Model 60. You remember from another thread that I am not unduly afraid of a low round count, and kinda like my wheelguns. SOMETHING had to go cosmically "wrong" for me to favor a .380 over a .38 snubbie, ESPECIALLY when my primary EDC is still a K-.38 (15-3)...and concealability and comfort are that thing.
Evil Monkey,
I had a conversation in a LGS recently while attempting to find a pistol small enough for my smallish wife to wear while jogging. A bearded (CUSS)tomer who's opinion I did not ask for butted in and said something like "She needs a .45 or a .40 at least, and proceeded to recommend all sorts of things that were way out of the parameters of a jogging pistol.
I told him I had a P3AT and was rather fond of it, after which he advised me not to shoot anyone lest I tick them off.
I asked what he carried. "A Sig 220, .45ACP".
"Let's see it". I said
He hesitated. "Well...It's out in my truck".
I patted my pocket and replied "Exactly."
You see my wife, who usually carries an XD-.40 Subcompact, finds my P3AT pretty uncomfortable...but the P-32 would leave her ARMED when she might otherwise not be.
Bill DeShivs
New member
I'm tired of beating this horse.
I am well aware of all the various parts of speech in the English language. For example "condescendingly" is an adverb.
According to whom? What are the criteria for a tactical handgun cartridge and who sets forth such criteria? What exactly does the merit of a .44 Magnum as a "tactical handgun cartridge" have to do with the usefulness of a .32 Auto or the merits of a pocket gun?
Ok then, if some cartridges are superior to others and it makes no sense to choose the "inferior" cartridge, then why isn't, as you yourself said, the .44 Magnum a "tactical handgun cartridge"? If looked at solely from the standpoint of terminal ballistics, the .44 Magnum is superior to pretty much every common "tactical handgun cartridge" yet very few people use it. Why do you think that is?
Personally, I think it's probably because most people don't think that the superior ballistics of the .44 Magnum are worth the heavy recoil and large, cumbersome guns it's typically chambered in. So, if we can reach a point of diminishing return in one direction, why could we not reach it in the other? If mild recoil and convenience of carry are worth sacrificing the superior ballistics of the .44 Magnum for, then why would mild recoil and convenience of carry not be worth the tradeoff of the .32 Auto's inferior ballistics?
Good for you, but not everyone can do that. I've tried several IWB holsters and I find most of them to be unbearably uncomfortable. Even with the couple I do find decently comfortable, I have to wear a cover garment of some sort which limits its utility in hot weather. Please don't assume that just because something works for you it will automatically work for everyone else.
My S&W 442 is quite easy to conceal most of the time and I carry it often. But there are times when my style of dress or the situation demands something smaller. The gun I have to situations such as this actually isn't a .32, but rather a Beretta 950 in .25 Auto. Regardless of the disadvantages of the small caliber, this gun is utterly reliable, very easy to shoot rapidly and accurately, and gives me no excuse not to carry.
I haven't bought a gun magazine in years. That being said, I find them no less reliable a provider of fact than anonymous internet experts.
No, it won't really because I wouldn't be very likely to carry it. If a gun is big enough that it can't be carried in my pocket, then it really has no usefulness to me over the full-size guns that I have such as my CZ-75B, S&W 639, S&W 1076, S&W 1911, or any of my medium and large frame revolvers. If I'm going to go to the trouble to carry IWB or OWB, then I may as well have the advantages of a full-sized pistol because at that point, it's really not that much more difficult to carry or conceal.
Tactical Jackalope
New member
Okay, that's hilarious. As someone who's carried a P220 before and currently carries either a P229 or P226 that's laughable. Good job on making him put his foot in his mouth! Mine are always on me, unlike him. Good call!
Limnophile
New member
Bill,
I'll throw the scientifically based IWBA criterion at you: a minimum average of 12.5 inches in calibrated standard gel.
What is deemed adequate is only up for debate by those ignorant of the IWBA's work, or by sophists. Adequate is determined by basic biology and physics.
A round that cannot penetrate deep enough to reach vital organs under less than ideal circumstances is a round that cannot be relied on to cause a physiological stop. The only .32 Auto JHPs that penetrate adequately are those that do not expand.
I'll throw the scientifically based IWBA criterion at you: a minimum average of 12.5 inches in calibrated standard gel.
What is deemed adequate is only up for debate by those ignorant of the IWBA's work, or by sophists. Adequate is determined by basic biology and physics.
A round that cannot penetrate deep enough to reach vital organs under less than ideal circumstances is a round that cannot be relied on to cause a physiological stop. The only .32 Auto JHPs that penetrate adequately are those that do not expand.
Evil Monkey
New member
^^^^^I'd like to add that most hollow point handgun bullet designs are nothing more than glorified FMJ's in expansion behavior.
larryh1108
New member
It's become comical because you have the mall ninja crowd, who learned how to shoot in real life by playing Call of Duty, telling people, who have been shooting longer than they have been alive and who probably put more rounds down range in a month than the mall ninja does in a year, what does or does not count as a viable self defense round. It's laughable.
I assume that the video shooters must get a larger power factor with the bigger guns so they can blow off the limbs of bad guys and cops and that the anemic rounds just bounce off the chest of the bad guys so that's how life really works.
I guess the video masters and mall ninjas don't realize that presenting a gun of any kind tends to stop an attack because they are cowards in the face of resistance. Of course, the bad guys asks the caliber of the gun you just pulled so he can know if you will annoy him or kill him.
You guys carry on. Each time you post you look more and more like the little wannabe SF guy you think you are. Yeah, you're cool. I wanna grow up to be just as cool as you some day. Where'd you buy your camo clothes? I want to look and act just like you guys.
I assume that the video shooters must get a larger power factor with the bigger guns so they can blow off the limbs of bad guys and cops and that the anemic rounds just bounce off the chest of the bad guys so that's how life really works.
I guess the video masters and mall ninjas don't realize that presenting a gun of any kind tends to stop an attack because they are cowards in the face of resistance. Of course, the bad guys asks the caliber of the gun you just pulled so he can know if you will annoy him or kill him.
You guys carry on. Each time you post you look more and more like the little wannabe SF guy you think you are. Yeah, you're cool. I wanna grow up to be just as cool as you some day. Where'd you buy your camo clothes? I want to look and act just like you guys.
Evil Monkey
New member
larry I've been reading back and forth the 5 pages of this thread and I have yet to see anyone fitting your descriptions.
Can you post with quotes which statements you have a problem with? Thanks...
Can you post with quotes which statements you have a problem with? Thanks...
Cosmodragoon
New member
TFL is usually a great place for discussion and learning from one another. I know from the numbers that far more people who visit TFL come to read rather than post. With these conversations indexed on Google, we end up answering a lot of firearms-related questions that all sorts of people ask their browsers. We also serve as a lens into "gun culture". Just as I asked "Evil Monkey" to think twice about decreeing what other individuals with diverse circumstances might need, I'm thinking twice about participating in this thread.
I have and have also studied the Miami shootout that was the reason for it. The fatal flaw is that it was based on the notion that a single 9mm 115 gr. Silver Tip failed to do the job. That bullet passed through an arm and into the torso stopping just short of the heart. Its path was a side shot. The wound was not INSTANTLY fatal but was in fact a fatal wound.
Yes a majority of the time. But I need to add that the person on the other end better believe that you WILL in fact use it.
For that small minority that just don't get it or don't care.....shot placement.. shot placement... shot placement. A compact 32 does this better for more people than a subcompact 9x18 or 9x19.
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