Proper Reloading Method

maxkimber

Max, that is a worthy ambition, (reaload when YOU want to NOT when you have to) The problem is that with so much going on, so many have ended up empty, many of my peers during the age of revel overs in LE ended up moving forward with empty 6guns, assured that they only fired 1 or 2 shots!!

With a Hi-cap pistol I think this would be impossible to keep count, and for that matter, very detrimental to the object at hand. No one knows how many rounds it will take to win a gunfight, practicing and polishing a emergency reaload in my opinion is a essential part of defensive pistol skills.

Good Luck & Be Safe
 
neither???

If your lucky and slap the mag in hard enough the slide will chamber the round automatically.
This is the fastest way.
and as max said reload before firing the last round.
 
I'm going to go with Bob here. If your primary method for training to reload is to keep track of your rounds, I think there might be a gap in the training that needs to be addressed. We have regularly found people to be wrong in their estimate of how many rounds they had left, and almost invariably they were wrong on the low side (I think I shot 4 rounds, when I really shot 9 rounds).
 
The counting thing SEEMS like a great idea and even works sometimes on the square range or in competition, but the overwhelming majority of defensive shooting situations during which the shooter fires more rounds than are contained in one mag, they shoot to slide lock.... even, in many cases, after having been trained to (or practiced) "never run dry". There is also a huge body of empirical evidence in regard to people not being aware of how many shots they fire during real incidents.

Not training slide-lock reloads frequently is a dangerous gap in defensive preparation.
 
We have regularly found people to be wrong in their estimate of how many rounds they had left, and almost invariably they were wrong on the low side (I think I shot 4 rounds, when I really shot 9 rounds).
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I have to agree. Sometimes when I am on the range, I lose count of my shots because I am concentrating on whatever target or drill I am on.

Add adrenaline, and I can understand how shooters lose count.
 
The counting thing SEEMS like a great idea and even works sometimes on the square range or in competition, but the overwhelming majority of defensive shooting situations during which the shooter fires more rounds than are contained in one mag, they shoot to slide lock.... even, in many cases, after having been trained to (or practiced) "never run dry". There is also a huge body of empirical evidence in regard to people not being aware of how many shots they fire during real incidents.

Not training slide-lock reloads frequently is a dangerous gap in defensive preparation.
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Agreed. I think counting shots is a purely academic (and pretty much pointless) exercise. What I tell those who ask me is to reload EVERY time you've had to shoot and you have the opportunity to reload. No counting, no worrying about how many shots you have remaining in the magazine. If you've fired your weapon and reached a place of cover or there is a momentary lapse in the action, reload - ALWAYS. I just can't think of a simpler strategy.

And the idea that is easier to slingshot the slide rather than to release the slide stop seems silly to me - at least on the 1911 frame. Get an extended slide stop and you will never fumble with it, and you can change mags and get back into battery (and on target) within a couple of seconds.
 
There are merits to both methods. In competition (idpa) where speed is paramount, as if it didn’t matter in self defense, using the slide release is the best method. This assumes that your pistol is not “tuned” to drop the slide when the magazine is seated.

Either way it is always faster to not go to slide lock.
 
I use both methods, depending upon which hand I am shooting with.

Left Hand: Slingshot
Right Hand: Slide Stop

I went back and forth over this with an Instructor at FLETC, but had to do it their way. They teach the "slingshot" and don't let you stand in Weaver. Since they were signing the paycheck, I said, "fine".

As far as counting shots, I've never been able to once the stress level goes up. I'll shoot the dang thing dry and then reload. Also, I've never been able to count past six. I guess that comes from starting on a Revolver back in the day. :)

Learn, practice and study both methods. The more options you have, the better.

Biker
 
a recent class i attended ( with an open mind had I ) taught the sling method exclusively for tap/rack malfs as well as gun run dry as both are resolved essentially the same way. With the reason to not use the slide release explained as the difference between fingers and flippers under stress and the concept that you will not deafult to training under stress..but will default only to training that has been mastered.

I have never even though about counting rounds neither for range work or training. It is the last thing on my mind on the range and will DEF be the last thing on my mind in a self defense situation.

if the gun has malf'd or you have run it dry, I have been taught to keep the gun up at eye level but our of direct line of sight, and either tap rack for a malf or reach for my spare mag with the index finger as a guide. The new mag comes up, old mag goes out and the mag change hand rotates up and over the slide and AGGRESSIVELY rack it back. Now you are back in the fight.
 
It seems to be something of a consensus that using the slide stop is a fine motor skill while the sling shot is not. And yet at least two very experienced instructors have stated that in their opinions using the slide stop is also a gross motor skill. Go figure.
 
Randy Cain's method works for me..."sling shot". Although, he never called it this IIRC.

I keep thinking the thumb and 2nd knuckle of the index finger are pinching the back portion of the slide and one is pulling it back. If this is the case, I don't agree with this technique.

Picturing a right handed shooter, my left hand's palm is resting along the left slide of the slide behind the ejection port (if possible). All four fingers are placed on the right side. A firm grip and commanding pull pack on the slide until the slide, NOT the timing of yourself, reaches its furthest point back. Your hand will still travel aft and end up slapping your shoulder in order to provide positive clearance from the natural operation of the slide. This also gets you in the habit to operate the slide in its full range of motion.

I firmly believe allowing the slide to load a round from the slide stop position rather than its furthest aft position is a recipe for a malfunction to occur. No, I don't have stats to back up my claim. This is only my experiences first hand, witness of others, and yes, the almighty internet.
 
Tuttle8 said:
...Your hand will still travel aft and end up slapping your shoulder in order to provide positive clearance from the natural operation of the slide...
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This is why Massad Ayoob prefers using the slide stop. Using the sling shot, as described, means that your weak hand is doing an awful lot of traveling before it can once again assume its place in the two handed grip over the strong hand. That delays reacquiring your full grip on the gun. (BTW, as you describe it is the way I've been taught the sling shot; and I agree that if you are going to use the sling shot, it's the preferred method.)
 
Normally you use the slide release
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Well, I have Glocks that have the slide stop (release) in one place, and Sigs in yet another. Mr. Glock designed the Glock for the slide to be hand released, as evidenced by the rather small slide stop. Besides that, I read it in a book some where.

The Sig has the slide stop farther to the rear.

The slide stop is the fastest way to operate a 1911.

I've been "Farnumized" to manually release the slide, making location or size of the slide stop irrelevent, and eliminating any confusion in the process. Farnum doesn't teach gun specific techniques.

There's no question that if one had one gun, or guns that had the same slidestop location, that using it is fast.

And there's also the matter of loss of fine motor skills while under stress, making release with the whole hand superior.

Never the less, I've seen it taught both ways by good instructors. In the end, only you can decide.
 
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I attended LFI with fiddletown, have fired and mucho competition, and am a retired 19D. I like doing both ways and will often use the slingshot method with a Sig.
But, with a 1911 AND an HK I use the slide release. The advantage of using the slide release is pure speed in getting off the nest shot. Your hands are already in position to make the next shot. You can ask Fiddletown and Mas just how fast I got with the P2K and it is damn fast.
Between the paddle release of the mag and a perfectly placed slide stop the P2k is a speedburner to reload.
I practice dryfire and reloading every night. It doesn't take long, 10 minutes for 30-35 reps starting slow and deliberate end ending fast.
 
And yet at least two very experienced instructors have stated that in their opinions using the slide stop is also a gross motor skill. Go figure.
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The problem there is what is the background of the "experienced instructors." Relatively few instructors have much of a background in physiology and that stuff, and often insructors talk about what they have heard or what they think. By definition, gross motor skills involve large muscles and big movements, fine motor skills involve small muscles making smaller movements.
 
Picturing a right handed shooter, my left hand's palm is resting along the left slide of the slide behind the ejection port (if possible). All four fingers are placed on the right side.
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That is not what is commonly called the slingshot. The slingshot is as described above that, with the thumb and index finger used. I prefer the "overhand" rack as you described it. That is what I was taught at Thunder Ranch and with John Farnam.
I checked a couple of sources, and both Chuck Taylor and Gunsight also recommend the overhand rack, as opposed to the slingshot or the slide stop.
 
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This is why Massad Ayoob prefers using the slide stop. Using the sling shot, as described, means that your weak hand is doing an awful lot of traveling before it can once again assume its place in the two handed grip over the strong hand.
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I don't think there's much travel from the forward side of your shoulder to placement on the gun which is in retention. The .000001 sec difference gets outweighed by a more assured proper chambering of the next round.

For the record, I don't think it's wrong to use the slide release. I still keep in practice of using it just in case there's an actual need. However, I practice to make sure I never run my gun dry to begin with the most since IMHO is the wrong thing to get a habit into if you're in a middle of a gunfight. I do see the need as Rob Pincus has described in his video. But, other than that, you present yourself as a sitting duck if you do. At this time, your gun is nothing more than a paperweight.
 
That delays reacquiring your full grip on the gun.
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And many instructors will agree that manipulation of the gun in your strong hand to reach the slide release is one thing you don't want to do. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has medium sized hands and sometimes cannot operate the slide release without doing so.

IMO, it's worse for you to do this than using your weak hand to rack the slide. That way you have complete control of your gun at all times.
 
I operate the slide in the same exact manner for all my manipulations (except one handed).

I always load my pistol with the slide in battery. This conditions me to positively seat the magazine against the resistance of the top cartridge pressing against the bottom of the slide. As an added measure I Tap the magazine base with the heel of my support hand just to be sure it's fully seated.

Then I Roll the pistol so the eject port faces the ground and vigorously operate (retract and release) the slide overhand style.

If I shoot the magazine dry I treat the condition as a "stoppage" and I perform Tap, Roll & Rack (using the same technique described in the two paragraphs above). If the pistol still fails to fire then I reload, using the same technique I use to load. If the slide goes into battery when I seat the magazine I still "Roll & Rack" to ensure a cartridge is chambered and to complete my technique uninterrupted (This way I don't have to think about the situation with the pistol, which can cause hesitation as my mind sorts out what to do next. I just perform a series of conditioned corrective actions - no thinking required about the gun, which, in turn, frees my mind to deal with the tactical situation).

If, after pressing the magazine release, the "depleted" magazine fails to jettison (detected when I can't insert the fresh magazine), then I place the fresh magazine between the ring and pinky fingers of my firing hand, retract and lock open the slide, forcibly remove the "depleted" magazine, and then roll the pistol so the eject port faces the ground and cycle the slide three times to clear the action. Then I reload the pistol using the same technique I use to load.

I "Roll" the pistol so eject port faces the ground so I can use gravity to help clear the action when I retract the slide. I don't wait until the eject port is facing down and then retract the slide. I begin retracting the slide as I'm rolling the pistol so I can also use centifugal force to clear the action too.

I use the same technique to LOAD, RELOAD and CLEAR STOPPAGES. The actions are all tied together into an integrated technique.

Cheers.
 
I only have a minute to respond before I hit the hay. Thank you guys for posting so much helpful information. It is also nice to see a discussion taking place and not some thread trashing argument. My XD releases fine. Wear is indeed a concern. I do not want to wear out the slide release/stop. I think the slingshot or overhand method seems very reliable. It seems to provide more traction for the hand to grab the slide in some way rather than my thumb trying to push down the release/stop. I could see the release/stop method becoming an issue for the sweaty shaky hands of a civilian such as myself and in a situation where I might be wearing gloves. In the end as Mr. Pincus stated consistency in my training is absolutely necessary. Mentally I should be prepared to use either method. Thank you very much fellas. Steve
 
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