progressive press or single stage ?

R

rebs

New member
Thank you guys for all the replies in my other threads for Dillon and Hornady progressive presses. I have decided on the Hornady if I get one. But have one last question.
I shoot roughly 100 rounds of 45 acp, 100 rounds of 38/357 and 200 rounds of 223 per week. Is this enough to warrant a progressive press ? I mean it takes 4 pulls of the handle and die changes to load 45 and 38/357 and only 2 pulls of the handle and one die change to load 223. In your opinions is it worth the cost to go to a progressive instead of the single stage I have now ?
 
Well lets do the math, 200 rounds of pistol with 4 strokes per finished round = 800 strokes. 200 rounds of rifle with 2 strokes per finished round = 400 strokes.

So a single stage 400 rounds are loaded with 1200 strokes of the ram.

On a progressinve it would take a few more strokes than 400 (you do have to fill the shell plate) so right off the bat you have 2/3 less work not to mention priming and powder charging will be automatic.

In a year you would have 14,400 strokes on the SS and under 5000 on the progressive.

Is it worth the cost? Don't know for you I have progressives setup in each of the rounds your talking about because for me it's worth it to not have to convert a single progressive back and forth. As they say "different strokes"...

There are some that look at reloading as a form of therapy or a way to "get away", if your one of those guys a progressive would be the opposite of what you want.
 
At one time I had 3 Lee Pro 1000's set up and tuned to perfection, but it
took away from the hobby as far as I was concerned, so I went with the
Lee Classic Cast Turret. With the Lee Turret, I get more enjoyment from
reloading. Not only is it a turret press, but you can remove the turret
shaft and have a single stage too.
 
This ^^

Would you rather spend more time sitting at the bench reloading, or less?

As far as whether it's "worth" the cost, only you can answer that.
 
I always suggest one starts with a single stage. Yep, they may be slow for some (are you pressed for time or do you like messin' with gun stuff?) but for learning the single stage teaches you what every step does and why. You'll learn how to reload ammo rather than learning to operate a machine that makes ammo.

Another thing not mentioned often is die adjustment. On a single stage you'll get used to correctly adjusting dies which is essential for troubleshooting your ammo problems.

If you have the time 200 rounds of pistol ammo ain't a lot. I like reloading and don't count pennys or times I pull the handle of my press (does a fisherman count how many casts he made to hook that salmon?). I have way less shooting time than I have reloading/gun stuff time so 200-300 rounds per week ain't a lot for me (more time reloading = more fun time)...:D
 
I shoot probably even less than you, but a progressive press changed my life! I used to dread cranking out pistol cartridges on my rockchucker. Now, I go down to the basement and blast out a hundred in less than an hour. I did't start reloading 223 until I got mt LNL AP, but I could not imagine going back to single stage for those.

I don't have much time to devote to my hobbies, and my LNL AP made my reloading time so much more productive and enjoyable I wish I had bought it a year sooner.
 
Is this enough to warrant a progressive press ?
Click to expand...

Yup. The totals you gave are what you shoot now. I'm going to guess like most of us that will change and the numbers you gave will be low a year from now. If you want to slow yourself down just use the progressive like a single stage. LOL like that will happen...
 
I have a non repairable rotor cuff complete tear off with retraction and arthritis in my other shoulder making working the handle my biggest problem. I can do it but will be painful for a day or two afterwards. Thats another reason for the thoughts of a progressive which completes a round with every pull of the handle rather than four pulls to complete a round.
I do enjoy the reloading as much as the shooting and have the time since I am retired but thinking a progressive might make it easier on my old damaged shoulders. LOL
 
rebs said:
I have a non repairable rotor cuff complete tear off with retraction and arthritis in my other shoulder making working the handle my biggest problem.
Click to expand...
I have not been able (insufficient incentive, mostly) to figure out a way to convert my press' linkage to a footpedal operated system. I have long wished for a way to free both my hands while loading. But it was not worth the trouble. If I had your condition, I would put more thought into figuring out if it were possible and how I could build it.

Compactness and portability have been more important to me than that particular convenience. For you, the convenience might be a necessity.

Is there anyone out there with the mechanical ability to design a foot-operated linkage, especially one that would be able to mount a standard press with minimal modification to the linkage? It might have a wider market than you think.

Lost Sheep
 
More than counting strokes

While progressive presses may have better leverage than single stage, remember that instead of one operation per stroke, you are performing multiple operations, which may not require 3 or 4 times the force of a single operation, but does require somewhat more force. This will translate into either more force from your arm or longer travel or a bit of both.

So, you must balance these factors (worth)

Number of strokes

Time of processing (which is not simply a matter of counting strokes, as inserting the cases into the press and extracting them takes time, too)

Force to make the stroke and length of the stroke

Cost of the equipment

Ease of caliber swaps

Space required (may or may not be important to you)

My experience that led me to my position:

I started loading on a single stage, RCBS RockChucker for .357 Mag when I bought my first gun. Then, over the years, I added .45 ACP, 9mm and 44 Magnum. Eventually got a pair of Pro-1000 presses (one for large primered cartridges and one for small, to ease the changeovers).

I never got used to monitoring multiple simultaneous operations, so never got very fast with the Pro-1000s. I might have been able to be more comfortable with a Dillon or Hornady progressive, but never tried them.

Then I decided to repopulate my loading bench with the best that money could buy (that also fit my needs) and after a lot of research got a Lee Clssic Turret.

My quantity output did not suffer. What I lost in tripling or quadrupling my press strokes, I made up for in fewer stoppages for double-checking. I did a LOT of double-checking.

That's my experience and I cannot think of any improvements to the Classic Turret and only a couple for the peripherals.

I hope my thoughts are helpful to you.

Lost Sheep
 
I have been loading on a 550 Dillon since the 1980`s and have never wanted to go back to a single stage press. I think the Dillon is a better press, but I can find no fault with the Hornady since they fixed their powder measure, :roll eyes:, boy they did that years ago now. I will say though, if you are going to load cast bullets get Dillon dies. You can pull a keeper and drop out the guts and clean the lube out without taking the dies out of the press, worth every penny of their price.
 
Something not mentioned is individual user mechanical aptitude.
I know its kind of a touchy subject in an era of everyone being enabled to do everything, but this is a case (IMHO) of proof where the rubber meets the road.
Some just thrive & swim in the mechanics of reloading, while some others need a slower more comfortable learning curve, & frankly some just don't make that curve.
I used a Dillon RL 450b for decades. This was after I'd used a Lyman single stage, also for decades.
A lot of what I've read in this thread doesn't show actual hands on experience of the equipment being discussed so let me try to offer an alternate POV.

In any press, single stage, or progressive, you still have to "set up the dies". How hard or easy it is depends on the press features & design. If your press lets you do things as several single stage presses standing in a circle then you can safely regard it as such, & learn on it the same way, one stage at a time.

The complications begin as the process becomes more & more automated. If you're not very mechanically adept you may find this overwhelming. It may be that you'll become comfortable later, but you need to realistically assess your individual performance in this area.

It comes down to a balance between aptitude & complication.
 
Aptitude, and style

wogpotter said:
Something not mentioned is individual user mechanical aptitude.
Click to expand...
Yes, indeed. Aptitude, personal style and comfort level.

I found while I was still using a single stage, that I can quickly change and adjust dies by feel, almost in my sleep. But that is where my natural aptitude seems to peter out.

I mentioned two posts up that I never got used to monitoring multiple simultaneous processes. To expand on that, I would stroke the (progressive) press, watching for the powder drop, then on the reverse stroke, watch for the primer feed and then feel carefully for the primer seating. Pause and see that a new case was in place and pick up and put a bullet on the prepped case just moving into position. I even tried to develop a mantra to chant as I went along so I could keep all the steps in order without losing one.

Never worked for me. It turns out that such is just not my style. (I will admit that I only ever tried it on one progressive, so your experience will vary, by your personality and your equipment). But I believe I had enough of the experience to inform me that a progressive is not for me.

With the amount of caliber swapping I do and my level of concentration, an auto-advancing turret suits me very well. I am relaxed after a loading session now, where with a progressive, I was a nervous wrre3ck. My throughput has not suffered and I can produce a finished box of 50 rounds in 30 minutes, hour after hour (that includes refilling powder and primer feeds, checking charge weights and labeling the finished product. I can swap calibers in a few minutes (15 seconds for the turret head and a minute or two to deal with changing the powder out).

Yes, I have found where "the rubber meets the road", my optimal setup and methodology.

Each of us has to find that "sweet spot" where our aptitude, style, and shooting needs all converge.

Happy day, that.

Lost Sheep
 
Thank you guys for all your input, I appreciate it very much. I have thought about a Lee classic turret but it is the same number of handle strokes as my single stage and I have read a lot about problems with their powder measure. I am thinking about asking at Cabela's about their return policy on the Hornady progressive. I wish someone lived close to me so maybe I could load a few rounds on one. If I bought one and it turned out not for me then I guess I could always sell it.
 
I appreciate the honesty of that reply.
Personally my comfort zone ends where full automation begins.
Can I use fully automated equipment?
Yes.
Do I like to, or do I prefer a degree of manual override of the process?
Oh heck yes!
For that reason I'm happy with the "upgrade" from the old RL 450b to the more automated RL 550b, sure, but I don't think a 650 is in the cards for me.
 
I have a lee progressive and lee turret press. If I could only have one it would be the turret.

Reasons
More versatile
Easier caliber change
Can single stage
More involving
More reliable(when a progressive hits a snag its a mess to deal with)
Not that slow but slower id say 250 vs 600 rounds per hour.

If I can reload my ammo for the month in 2hrs then I pretty much eliminated a hobby that month. Slower isn't always worse is what I'm trying to say. Most people who reload find it enjoyable and a separate hobby from shooting. Some people like myself enjoy it more than shooting,

If you shoot competitions then a progressive is nice but otherwise the turret will get you there all the same. For someone starting I think the lee 4 hole turret kit is a unbeatable bargain. Their progressives is where you start to see a big difference between lee and hornady/dillon.
 
I wish someone lived close to me so maybe I could load a few rounds on one.
Click to expand...

Someone probably does but where exactly is that?

I have owned two LNL's would suggest them over the Lee progressives and even some of the Dillon's under certain circumstances but still have at least one of every Dillon model despite selling off the LNL's.
 
Really, return the turret, get the LNL AP, send away for the 500 free bullets (gotta pay shipping though), and get a whole new outlook on reloading.

Also, the Hornady powder measure is spectacular. Not only does it dispense accurately, but the linkage is easy to adjust so that you get the just the right amount of bell on your handgun cases.

Get the Hornady light strip, or some other supplemental lighting setup. The extra light inside the press helps tremendously.
 
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