Progressive press... Need opinions on the different models available

[marine6680]

650 on its way.

 

[schmellba99]

Tell that to folks that have an old Hornady pro 7 or pro-jector or RCBS 4x4, piggy back 3 and 4 (or soon to be in the same boat pro 2000) that are scrap now that they can't get replacement parts, even if they wanted to pay for them.

Then talk to guys that have 30 year old Dillon machines that are still in service and if something breaks Dillon still sends out the parts to fix them for free.

Doesn't make a difference if they were the first progressive press (they were not) or the last. If they were crap they would have gained that reputation by now.

Don't get upset, I wasn't disparaging the blue paint in any way. I've always said that Dillon makes a great product and has great service.

But one of the major reasons they are so popular is simply because they marketed their products (well made, I'll add that so you don't think I'm saying bad things about your baby blue) better than anybody back when there was nothing of note in the progressive world. It then snowballed into a case of your buddy's buddy's buddy has a Dillon and swears by it, and your buddy's buddy swears by it and your buddy swears by it and therefore you swear by it.

Not knocking them at all - it's brilliant marketing on their side.

But you also pay for that marketing and you'll pay more for Dillon simply because the paint is blue and they can charge more. More power to them.

 

[schmellba99]

The more complexity you add, the more problems you invite. I like my LnL AP but did have to upgrade some parts along the way. Mine is about 5 years old. I have a case feeder but can't use the motorized bullet feeder because of lead bullets, and cannot justify the substantial prices of the alternative aftermarket bullet feeders. The machine did work quite well when manually placing cases. There is just a lot less motion and perhaps stress when at least the case is coming in automatically from the case feeder addition.

I'll add the case feed one of these days - I keep saying I will, but just haven't been able to justify spending the money when I don't get to shoot or reload near as much as I used to be able to do.

I also thought I read where the newer Hornady bullet feed setups will work with lead projectiles now? Maybe it is just the tubes and not the rotary feeder?

 

[jmorris]

Don't get upset, I wasn't disparaging the blue paint in any way. I've always said that Dillon makes a great product and has great service.

But one of the major reasons they are so popular is simply because they marketed their products

Not upset at all, just that you saying their popularity having "no other reason other than that (marketing)." is silly.

If marketing were all it took pet rocks, chia pets and snuggies would be in every home these days.

You also might be forgetting that Hornady and RCSB were already in the game with all of their other products and already had all of the distributor connections setup. Direct marketing was the only viable option Dillon had at the time.

I will concede that you do have to pay more for them. The warranty is for the lifetime of the press. Doesn't matter if you are the first owner or your grandfather was, you break a part, they will send you a new one for free and that costs money even if it didn't come out of your pocket someone has to pay for it. A side effect of that is that they have the best resale value out of all manufacturers. If you have a 30 year old Dillon, today it would sell for twice (or more) what you paid for it back then.

 

[schmellba99]

I tend to speak in generalities, forgetting that message boards love to split hairs to the nth degree.

Dillon makes a good product, but the vast majority of their following stems from the fact that they marketed the ever living hell out of a better product than anything on the market at the time. The fact that they put the same warranty in place that RCBS has helps as well. They make a great product - but the fact that the were essentially the only real progressive game in town for quite some time and did an outstanding job making blue paint more popular is a huge reason you see the following with Dillon that you do today.

Dillon fan boys and Glock fan boys seem to always fit the same type of mold and come out of the woodworks whenever their favorite product's name is mentioned - often bragging about the far superior quality of their favorite brand without actually having any experience with any other brand.

I find it funny, and a testament to how well old man Dillon has run his business.

 

[jmorris]

The fact that they put the same warranty in place that RCBS has helps as well.

You made my point for me, if they were the same you could still get parts for the
RCBS 4x4, piggy back 3 and 4, green machine and ammomaster before too long you will be able to add the pro 2000 to that list. However you can't because the warranty is not the same, not only are the parts not free you couldn't get them even it you wanted to pay for them.

As far as that goes Lee does an excellent job at warranty service and offer progressive presses at prices that beat out everyone else, if they worked as well as the others they could sell a lot more of them though.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

I have a Hornady LNL-AP and it has served me pretty well. I added a casefeeder which was worthwhile but it's a little bit "fiddly". Also, if you are comparing the LNL-AP with the Dillon 650, the Hornady press is less expensive but if you price the press and a casefeeder, they are pretty close in price.

I think the caliber changeover is less expensive and simpler with the Hornady. On the other hand Hornady uses some unplated carbon steel parts that are prone to rust which is a little bit of an annoyance (my loading bench is in my garage).

 

[Real Gun]

<snip>I think the caliber changeover is less expensive and simpler with the Hornady. On the other hand Hornady uses some unplated carbon steel parts that are prone to rust which is a little bit of an annoyance (my loading bench is in my garage).

The cover available for the LnL with case feeder should reduce condensation on the machine. I wonder if even a tarp or blanket would help.

 

[Dragonflydf]

I think the caliber changeover is less expensive and simpler with the Hornady. On the other hand Hornady uses some unplated carbon steel parts that are prone to rust which is a little bit of an annoyance (my loading bench is in my garage).

Mine developed a sheen of rust on all the steel parts of the powder measure, and that was inside, but I do use a swamp cooler most of the summer, I glass beaded the parts and had them cad plated, no more rust.

 

[Dragonflydf]

Dillions marketing is why I went with Hornady,at the NRA convension, the people at dillion were more interested in talking to those who all ready owned their press, than to people who were wanting to know more about them and maybe buy one.

 

[Real Gun]

Dillions marketing is why I went with Hornady,at the NRA convension, the people at dillion were more interested in talking to those who all ready owned their press, than to people who were wanting to know more about them and maybe buy one.

Sort of a fanboy convention then. But don't let a grudge get in the way of having good equipment.

 

[jmorris]

The cover available for the LnL with case feeder should reduce condensation on the machine. I wonder if even a tarp or blanket would help.

If your covering one in an environment that is not climate controlled, don't cover it with something that won't "breathe" like a trash bag instead use a pillow case or other cover that won't be a moisture trap.

 

[Dragonflydf]

Dillions marketing is why I went with Hornady,at the NRA convension, the people at dillion were more interested in talking to those who all ready owned their press, than to people who were wanting to know more about them and maybe buy one.
Sort of a fanboy convention then. But don't let a grudge get in the way of having good equipment.

I didn't, I bought the best, Hornady LnL progressive, They took the time to answer all my questions, when dillion would not take the time to answer them. I went by their booth everyday and it was always the same thing.

 

[TooMad]

By the time I shoot through my factory 9mm and .223 I hope to be setup for reloading the same. Would a progressive press be too much for a new reloader? I read "read this first" and I have some 3+ months to read the ABC's which I've already ordered, weigh opinions, attend a local reloading class, etc. I can start with a Lee Classic Cast Turret but an extra $500 for the base 650 isn't a stretch.

• New to reloading
• First thought it Dillon 650
• Budget is <= Dillon 1050
• Could Pass Mechanics 101 with a B maybe an A
• Patient & will RTFM
• Reloading ~1000 in a sitting
• .223 & 9mm now
• .308 and derivatives, 5.7x28mm, others later

 

[condor bravo]

Would a progressive be too much...?
The age old question and one that you will mostly have to answer yourself. The Dillon 650 could be intimidating but the 550 not so much, so you could consider that possibility also. If you have been keeping up with this thread, the OP has settled on the 650, he does have reloading experience however, over runner-up LNL, with the Lee products left in the dust. But if you are A+ in mechanics and want to accept the challenge, go for the 650, otherwise the 550. Some have said that a progressive is too much for a new reloader but I do not go along with that. No need to start with something more basic with the thought of advancing later. Keep in mind when setting up that you don't have to begin with full progressive; instead for a while just operate as a single stage by cycling only one round through at a time to completion until all stages are adjusted and working properly.

 

[McCarthy]

Dillon makes a good product, but the vast majority of their following stems from the fact that they marketed the ever living hell out of a better product than anything on the market at the time.

What marketing? They didn't find me, I had to find them and I started my research while being swamped by all the other manufacturers in ADs and catalogs from Midway, Cabelas, Natchez and alike.

I have owned products / presses from all major brands. At the end of the day there are 2 brands left when it comes to quality and precision:

- Single stage press / turret: REDDING
- Progressive press: DILLON

And I don't have to be an engineer (which I am) to be able to make out the differences in quality and ingenuity.

Your assumptions are wrong. Most of us a way too old to be fan boys. I could easily claim that you might not have the funds for a fully blown Dillon setup. Does that make sense..? No. So just quit it...

 

[schmellba99]

Your assumptions are wrong.

And now the thread is starting to turn into what any other thread mentioning blue versus red versus green does.....

One could easily say that what I quoted you saying above is equally 100% true. I'll just leave it at that, and say that your assertions and assumptions are just as wrong as mine apparently are.

And if you don't know what marketing geniuses Dillon Precision is, I'm not sure what to tell you - because they most certainly are. BTW, marketing does not have to be limited to the places you specifically go. Shocking, I know.

 

[jmorris]

Would a progressive be too much...?

I don't know. I do know that there are folk out there the any reloading is "too much" for them. It requires patience and attention to detail.

That said I started metallic reloading on a progressive and did fine. Just take your time learning. You can also load a single round at a time, one operation at a time, just like a single stage until you have an understanding of what all is going on.

If all I were going to do was load a bunch of 9mm and 223 and the 1050 were out of my reach I would pick the 650.

 

[schmellba99]

Would a progressive press be too much for a new reloader?

That depends on you more than anything else.

Like jmorris said above - you can always load a single round at a time. I did this very thing for probably the first few hundred rounds on my LnL until I got the hang of things. I went from 1 round at a time to 2 rounds at a time, then 3, etc. Once I really understood the mechanics and what to look for when in the process, going from 1 round to running it as it is intended to be run was a pretty quick transition.

Here's the thing about progressives - don't get caught up in the rounds per hour number that people love to spout out. Much like fuel mileage in their truck or how small the groupings are out of their rifle, there is generally a lot of exaggeration or stretching of the truth involved. How many rounds you can produce is pretty much irrelevant - it is the quality of rounds you can produce that matters. 500 rounds an hour is great on paper, but it isn't really anything to be proud of if your rounds are crappy.

Get the mechanics down, make sure you are making quality ammo first. Then worry about other things like how much you can make or what new toys you need for your press, etc. Quality, quality, quality and quality.

 

[Real Gun]

OP, I know your original post said nothing about Dillon, and that your fiancé has decided you will pick a Dillon 650, but whenever this sort of question comes up, as it frequently does on various forums, no one is "allowed" to like or recommend anything but Dillon. I admire the reputation, but didn't like that silly blue color and thought I could not build up my machine gradually like I could my Hornady LnL AP.