Progressive press... Need opinions on the different models available

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Note to marine 6680:
You may find that loading rifle rounds, including .308s, on a progressive puts considerable strain on the press and you may want to forego with the .308 loading on whatever press you decide on. As many others have said who use progressives, they use single stage presses for rifle loading (lighter calibers like .223s can be an exception).
 
I have no trouble with rifle cases in the LnL, just make sure the cases are well lubed when you size and cap them. Depending on what I am loading I will size cap and prime, then in one station I have the Lee quick trim die and I will trim them and set them aside for later loading. Some of the rifle loads I have done are 223, 30-30, 308, 7.7 Jap, 7.5 x 55 Swiss, 8mm Mauser,
I have reformed 30-06 into 8mm on the press and had no problems, the press is way over built and if you get a stuck case, it is because of a lack of lube and not the presses fault.
 
So far, I am liking the Dillon 650.

Manual bullet feed, but cases are fed from a tube. There is an option for a case feeder to fill the tube for you.

And the price isn't bad... I can get a 9mmbsetup going, with a quick change kit (minus dies) for around $750


But the LnL looks good as well, higher initial cost at $1200, but more options, and all components are auto feed.

I can always use my turret for larger caliber use.
 
IMO, if you want a case feeder then a Dillon 650 is the machine you want. The 650 was built around a case feeder were as the Hornady the case feeder was an afterthought and simply doesn't run as smooth as the Dillon. The price difference between a 650 with case feeder and a LNL with case feeder is pretty darn close.

Buy Dillon equipment from Brian Enos and save on shipping.
http://www.brianenos.com/

He also has a reloading forum that is "THE" Dillon site for all things Dillon.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

The Dillon trimmer is the RT1500, the RT1200 has been discontinued. The 1500 is a heavier built motor designed to cut and trim 300blk cases from 223 brass, the older 1200 wasn't meant for that and would burn out the bearings. If you are into the 300blk then the 1500 is the cat's meow as it allows you to form and trim in one step vs the two step process of before. If you are not into the 300blk then a good used 1200 will suit you just fine, they discontinued the 1200 this summer. I have the 1200 for my 223 and 30-06.

You can mount a 1500 or 1200 on any press with the 7/8 threads. The trim die are also size dies and are small base dies. Most people running the trimmers are using a regular size die in station1 sizing the brass to say 75% and then finish off the sizing with the trim die in station 4. For ex, loading 223 for an AR I bump the should back 5 thousands, the first die is set at 3 and the trim die is set at 5.
 
The Lee bullet feeder was the worst money I have spent on reloading equipment ever.

Anything for reloading that tells you to boil the parts when it starts to spit bullets everywhere, should be avoided.

If are sure you want case and bullet feed I would suggest a 650 or 1050.

The LNL press costs less than the Dillon but the "case feed" conversion costs more than the Dillon. The reason for this is that the Dillon 650 base machine already has the device that feeds cases from a tube into the shell plate, what they sell as the "case feed" is really just a case collator (case feed feeder). On the LNL the case feed conversion includes the collator and all the parts to feed from the tube to the shell plate. User results vary (because they are the ones that have to set the entire system up) but they never seem as fool proof as the 650.

The 650 and 1050 are also the only two manual machines where you can have case/bullet feed along with a powder check die and still seat then crimp in two steps.

This is a video of one of my 650's loading 100 rounds in under 4 min, haven't seen any of Lee presses or LNL's that run as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl63cR9Y_Y0
 
Ok... looking at those Dillons...


550 or 650... That is the question.

I shoot about 500-600rds of 9mm a month, and about 400-500rds of 223. Sometimes less depending on weather and other factors.

My reloading tends to be in batches... I'll sit and deprime a bunch of brass, a few days later, I will clean it all in an ultrasonic cleaner, then sometime latter, load up about 1000 rounds. Its an involved and slow process, so I tend to buy more ammo than reloading my own. I just don't like to spend the time doing it.

Its the time factor... Loading 1000 rounds can take a lot of time, as I load at about 150 an hour, not counting the deprime and cleaning. (those steps are relatively quick) If I could crank out a 1000 rounds in short order, I would reload more often rather than buy.


I am leaning to the 650 for the case feed system... that seems like it will really speed things up.

Watching videos, the 550 isn't bad, but the 650 is definitely quicker. I seen someone loading 308 on a 550, and loading one every 6 seconds, so 600 an hour.

Someone loading on a 650 at a leisurely pace was doing a round every 4 seconds, which is 900 an hour.


Cost... A 550, with everything I need to load 9mm and 223, which includes quick change setups... $925.

A 650 set up the same, is $1350. So a $400 increase... Is the speed (and efficiency of movement, and lower fatigue) worth it? I'm not sure yet.
 
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550 or 650... That is the question.
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For me if you want case and bullet feed there is no question other than 1050 or 650.

With either of them you can have both case and bullet feed, seat then crimp in two different stations and retain a powder check die, no other press can do this.

With a 550 you can bullet feed/seat in #3 then crimp in #4 using a GSI bullet feeder but you will be in the same boat as you would be with an LNL, not having a powder check die.
 
Watching videos, the 550 isn't bad, but the 650 is definitely quicker. I seen someone loading 308 on a 550, and loading one every 6 seconds, so 600 an hour.

Someone loading on a 650 at a leisurely pace was doing a round every 4 seconds, which is 900 an hour.
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Here is a video of one of my 1050's loading rifle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La83ZVKnBzw


I do load for most of my rifles on other machines though. For example n a 550 takes 5 seconds to convert from say 7-08 to 458 socom. Now that is without case or bullet feed but if your loading just a few of one an swapping what you loose not having bullet and case feed is gained during conversions, unless you have multiple presses.
 
If you are using lead bullets, you will need to do some research on a bullet feeder that works. Hornady says their bullet feeder is not for lead (over size or sticky). I have a Hornady LnL with case feeder, while my bullet feeder (for coated lead) consists of the Lee bullet feeder die and the Bully adapter, holding four tubes of bullets totaling about 100 in terms of 38/357. I then stop to refill bullets and primers at about the same time. That system moves much better now with the new Hornady primer tube filler. You would no longer have to take the time and invest the patience to peck a 100 primers with a tube or to do filling of multiple tubes in advance as a separate project.
 
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Jmorris:
Your video is very impressive to say the least. I would think that now and then you would be forced to clear a mis-feed or mangled round. What problems do you run into with the 1050?
 
If you are just loading pistol, the Square Deal is an option, though it doesn't have the case or bullet feed capability. The way I use it, for .38 or 9mm, is I load three primer tubes with primers, drop one into the press and the reload it. So I've got 400 primers ready-100 in the press and 300 standing by. That takes about 10 minutes.

Then I start loading. I have an In-Line Fabrication stand for the press. In about an hour, I am out of primers. 400 rounds loaded. That's a solid hour of inserting cases, bullets and pulling the handle. I usually quit at that point for the night. I seldom load more than 400 at a time. Come back the next night and load another 300 or 400, and a third night 200 or 300 completes the 1000 round mark. Last week I just finished loading about 2000 rounds of .38 spl. Took me 5 or 6 one-hour sessions.

I have two SDB presses, one for large primers, one for small. I'm thinking of getting another couple so I can just leave them set up for each of the cartridges I load-.38, 9mm, .45 and .44.
 
The 650 looks awesome despite the added cost.

Still up in the air... As that money saved on a 550 is a lot of components.
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You did say you wanted productivity with a case feeder and bullet feeder. The 550B does not auto index and has 4 stations rather than 5 (give me 6). Being attracted to the price of the 550 generally means your requirements are being compromised by budget constraints. The 5 station machines are very likely the better platforms for both bullet and case feeders.
 
Even when I have plenty of funds... Sometimes I can have problems dropping it on something.

The practical minded side of me creeps in.


A friend wants to buy my Lee classic turret off me. I got the kit plus extra turrets, the Lee on press trim, other random useful bits, and 9mm and 223 dies. (I'm going to get the Dillon dies)

It's at least $350 I have in the kit and extras, told him $250 for the whole thing. I have an electronic scale so I don't need the beam scale any more. So he will be set up well.
 
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Jmorris:
Your video is very impressive to say the least. I would think that now and then you would be forced to clear a mis-feed or mangled round. What problems do you run into with the 1050?
Click to expand...

Almost none, it is rare that any problems occur while loading,that said, it is due to my process more than the 1050 machine itself (although the 1050 is the only manual progressive I feel is reliable enough to automate).

With bottle neck brass you cannot do everything that needs to be done in one pass on any machine, so they go through one pass to size/deprime and trim to length, generally with a "prep" tool head.

IMG_20141231_101016_603-1_zps04d5d37a.jpg


This is where you would find a mangled round, if it made it past a visual inspection before/after being tumbled.

Then they make a pass through an automated annealing machine so all of the brass is consistent on the loading pass.

DSC01810.jpg


It is not necessary for pistol to have a "prep" pass but I do it anyway if I am using an automated loader, as it is no extra work that has to be done by me and it is not uncommon for the machine to load 10,000 rounds without malfunction being fed processed brass.

This is how fast brass can be processed and again brass that will cause a malfunction will be found in this pass (before you are dealing with primers, powder or bullets).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1ieGYpdr9I

If it match ammo it takes a trip through a roll sizer first.

DSC02028-1.jpg


Also helps to have everything sorted perfectly, I generally pass everything through this machine twice, first pass on its own, second I cull nested cases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFw7IcQUmgs
 
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