Progress of our war

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Did FBI Director Robert Mueller really say to the Commonwealth Club of San Francisco that "In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper -in the U.S. or in Afghanistan - that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot."?

Read the speech, in its entirety. Not hard to find, if you had wanted.

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm
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OK, so that answers that question. It is true he said that.

What air defense system? If you think there are armed military planes cicling every major city 24/7, you've seen too many bad movies.
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I don't know what it is called, but the same defense system that had two jet fighter escorts within 20 minutes, IIRC, for that famous golfer's plane when it went off course.

BTW, it appears that Don edited/deleted all of his posts, so you get the rather odd effect of replies to nonexistant posts.
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That's fine. My questions, except for the one mentioned above, still stand.
 
I don't know what it is called, but the same defense system that had two jet fighter escorts within 20 minutes, IIRC, for that famous golfer's plane when it went off course.
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It was a test pilot on a test flight and so happened to be in the area. My brother does a similar job (F14 pilot, weapons test squadron) and flies here and there, only armed with test weapons where such a thing needs testing. Most of the time they are armed only with cameras and data collection equipment, some of which even replaces the gun. They are not part of any air defense system.

There hasn't been an effective air intercept system in place since the intercontinental ballistic missle became the primary means of delivering nukes, probably in the mid 1960s.
 
There hasn't been an effective air intercept system in place since the intercontinental ballistic missle became the primary means of delivering nukes, probably in the mid 1960s.
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Yes, but Destructo6 you must understand that all you have is firsthand military experience, the experience of your brother's service, and an in depth knowledge of our military, it's equipment and systems, plus knowledge of said equipment's/systems' capability.

You call that an argument? :p ;)
 
I used to let the traitors and sympathizers with radical Islam get me so mad that I would get banned as I did on THR. No more. They aren't worth it.
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You mean I ain't the onliest one?
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Me three.

As for connections between OBL, AQ, and 9/11...

Saeed Sheikh, who was closely tied to the Pakistani ISI and to Afghanistan, was referred to by OBL as "my special son". [Vanity Fair, 8/02] He reportedly helped train the hijackers. He was involved in transferring money - upwards of $100,000 - to Atta and Alshehhi under the alias "Mustafa Ahmed," from the UAE. He had connections high in the Pakistani military and into the inntermost circles of OBL and AQ. London Times, 4/21/02]
 
Is it possible to wage "war" on a noun?

How many IRA hardcores have kept the British tied up in Northern Ireland for the last 40 years or so? Is it "about 300"? And is that excluding the "help" they had from the British government in some of the murders and bombings? ... So how many hundreds of thousands are waiting throughout Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikstan, Pakistan, India, SW China, and other parts of Asia, Africa, and Europa to take the place in Afghanistan of those on Mr Tenet's "list"? And how many millions to take the place of the general insurgent armies? The perpetual war for perpetual peace.

Saddam Hussein? Saddam Hussein ran a secular government that kept the religious fundamentalists under control. That's why a million or more Christians lived in Iraq free from the persecution they experience elsewhere. Perhaps what got him all the attention was the intention to switch to the EURO as reserve currency. That or maybe Nut'n'yahoo was mad about something else.

"What is happening now is very simple. It is the battle of seminal importance for the early 21st century. It will define relations between the Muslim world and the West. It will influence profoundly the development of Arab States and the Middle East. It will have far-reaching implications for the future conduct of American and Western diplomacy" - Tony Blair, speech at the Lord Mayor's Banquet 10/11/2003

Oh, how well-stated Comrade Blair.
 
It was a test pilot on a test flight and so happened to be in the area. My brother does a similar job (F14 pilot, weapons test squadron) and flies here and there, only armed with test weapons where such a thing needs testing. Most of the time they are armed only with cameras and data collection equipment, some of which even replaces the gun. They are not part of any air defense system.
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Thanks for that information. That clears that up.

Do you know if we have an "air defense system" in place since September 11, 2001?
 
Thanks for that information. That clears that up.

Do you know if we have an "air defense system" in place since September 11, 2001?
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Probably not and for many reasons. It takes years and millions of dollars to train a fighter pilot. You have to have planes for them to fly (at $40-$80 million each). You need the entire supply and maintenance capabilities increase significantly. You need bases evenly spread across the USA, whereas the 1990s saw hundreds, if not thousands, of military bases close (BRAC).

Add to that the very real possibility that a terrorist airplane bomb may not ever be tried again in CONUS. Sort of a case of closing the barn doors after the horses have escaped.

Or, you could use that massive amount of money to: A) take the fight to the enemy, on his soil. B) develop better intelligence networks, so that potential attacks are known before they occur. c)...
 
Uh, begging your pardons, but we do have an air defense alert and defense system - with fully armed aircraft on stnadby - and NORAD is alive and well. The 119th Fighter Wing was stationed at Langley at the time of the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon and was scrambled. Why NORAD did not vector them into Flight 93 is a good question, though I have heard one account that claims one of the 119th fighters did shoot down Flight 93. I wonder who told NORAD to stand down that day.
 
The interceptors sent up on that day were flying below the speed of sound, or so I have read. Why weren't they in any particular hurry? What did they think was going on with multiple hijackings, a tea party? ;)
 
Dave - No offense to you, good sir, but my recommendation would be to, "Put on your tinfoil hat and look at the timeline."

:rolleyes:
 
The question is this: why didn't NORAD have the highjacked planes intercepted in some reasonable amount of time?

The procedures are well-established, and are followed hundreds of times each year.

Referring this to the tinfoil hat brigade doesn't answer the questions.

Anyway, I've found that copper foil works better for me. It's harder to work with, but blocks more voices, and looks better on me.

db
 
It's comforting that I'm not alone. There's a new book out:

…The first part of The New Pearl Harbor looks in detail at the timeline and events of 9/11 itself. How is it, Griffin asks, that even the first airplane was not intercepted -- given standard procedures, operating normally many times a year, for off-course or otherwise anomalous aircraft? The FAA, NORAD, and the NMCC (National Military Command Center at the Pentagon) have a clear and working set of standard operating procedures which on September 11th, and on that day only, failed to operate. Griffin lays them out, along with the strange, and changing official excuses for their "failure".

The story becomes even more bizarre for the second plane to hit the WTC. By that time, it was known that three planes had been hijacked, and were heading back eastward (the fourth plane was 41 minutes late in taking off, so at this point was not part of the story). Still there was no normal scrambling of protective aircraft. By the time of the Pentagon incident, the details become grotesque. It was clear to the entire nation, fixed to the TV, that America was under a coordinated attack, and that a third plane was headed towards Washington. Yet though Cheney and Rice were evacuated to the White House bunker, still, no protection aircraft scrambled, and when it finally did, was sent from a base far from DC, travelling at half-maximum speed or less, arriving too late to prevent the attack.

With official statements compared to a detailed timeline of events, the most likely conclusion is that on that day, the air defense system was ordered to stand down from its normal protective procedures -- even after it was clear to all what was happening. Who could have ordered such a stand down?…

From http://www.counterpunch.org/estrin05252004.html

db
 
Sorry, but if :rolleyes: is intended to be a considered response to my last couple of posts, it went right over my head.

You don't like the what-ifs, then

point me at a sensible explanation for Where was our Air Force/ANG on 9/11?.

db
 
The :rolleyes: seemed a little more polite than what I was really thinking. Since you have such a vivid imagination, feel free to let it run wild.
 
I see that there are plenty 'O tinfoil mad-hatters on this board too. "Weeellllllllll... isn't that special?"

I find it "confusing" that the same government who is wasteful, incompetent and disjointed in the communication/interaction between its' many arms much of the time, can also be the government that is an evil eight-headed hydra who is sneakily seeking to take away all of your rights and whose officials are coordinating very complex undertakings and keeping them secret and not leaking classified info like a shot-up tin cup as it normally does. So which government is it? The one that is a well-coordinated freedom-sucking machine, capable of brilliant, multi-tiered plans to kill its citizens and frame other nations so we can justify wars for oil/power? Or the incompetent, bloated, beached whale that inhales as much tax money as it can confiscate and provides little in the way of benefits to its citizens?

Or maybe it's both. "They" (the faceless 'government') use the smart ones to perpetrate lies and execute globe changing shananigans, and the fat/dumb/lazy ones to be part of the cover umbrella to make mom and pop think they are too bloated and incompetent to pull-off any great plans. I suppose that it's not out of the question. But I know how many agenda-driven tattle-tales are entrenched in high places who would be all-too gladly handing these story-lines over to the media to have a field day with. And yet, all we get are stories about executive incompetence from those that are fired or break-away from the organization. So again I ask, which is it?

I have PLENTY of my own suspicians about the actions of the government on a variety of matters (and I think many feel similarly), but THE DELIBERATE and INTENTIONAL bringing-about of the events of 9/11 by our own government is NOT EVEN ON MY RADAR. If it ever is found-out to be true, then I will be the first to forsake my own government. But until then guys, loosen the hat a little. The lack-of circulation is not allowing your brains to function correctly.
 
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