Vladimir Berkov
New member
Far from baseless. The current "War on Terror" just bears too many similarities to 1984 to ignore.
Progress of our war
- Thread starter CMichael
- Start date
- Status
RW, have you not heard of the USA PATRIOT Act? Or The New Dept. of Total Information Awareness with their 'All Seeing Eye' logo?
I think distrust of the government is a good thing and was the reason that the Founders created the Bill of Rights. A number of founders even felt that the Bill of Rights was unneccesary because everyone naturally had those rights so why bother to list them. More thoughtful ideas prevailed (ideas less trustful of government) and the Founders enumerated ten Rights inthe Bill of Rights. Now even with those rights enumerated we still have to fight government to preserve them. I don't see any reason for trust here.
Hasn't the govt. betrayed and lied to us on many previous occasions? Off the top of my head; the Gulf of Tonkin, W. Wilson "we will not enter Europes War", GHW Bush "I was out of the loop", Clinton, Watergate and the use of SS numbers as a national ID#.
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As for the progess of our war; Which War? I guess it doens't matter which because I don't think the govt provides adequate info on any of them to make a solid judgement.
I think distrust of the government is a good thing and was the reason that the Founders created the Bill of Rights. A number of founders even felt that the Bill of Rights was unneccesary because everyone naturally had those rights so why bother to list them. More thoughtful ideas prevailed (ideas less trustful of government) and the Founders enumerated ten Rights inthe Bill of Rights. Now even with those rights enumerated we still have to fight government to preserve them. I don't see any reason for trust here.
Hasn't the govt. betrayed and lied to us on many previous occasions? Off the top of my head; the Gulf of Tonkin, W. Wilson "we will not enter Europes War", GHW Bush "I was out of the loop", Clinton, Watergate and the use of SS numbers as a national ID#.
---
As for the progess of our war; Which War? I guess it doens't matter which because I don't think the govt provides adequate info on any of them to make a solid judgement.
spartacus2002
New member
Actually, I heard Eastasia was Kicking Oceania's butt, score was tied at halftime, no time outs left!
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
Grrr....Seeker, thank you. Likely the most astute post on this thread.
TheBluesMan's Grrrr should have ended the "Oh Yeah!? Says you!" BS right there.
Since the thread's still open though, I do have to ask the question.
If we "know" the AQ's are up & running again with terr-camps in EA (funny how the initials match), why wasn't (or have there been already) a coupla high-po strikes ....
TheBluesMan's Grrrr should have ended the "Oh Yeah!? Says you!" BS right there.
Since the thread's still open though, I do have to ask the question.
If we "know" the AQ's are up & running again with terr-camps in EA (funny how the initials match), why wasn't (or have there been already) a coupla high-po strikes ....
Destructo6
New member
Do you speak and write in English? This sentance violates several English rules and makes little sense, like your argument.
Speaking of the argument, how about stating it once and for all, in plain English?
Vladimir Berkov
New member
But Rik, we weren't fighting Nazis in World War Two, we were fighting Germany.
Michigander
New member
What actual proof is there that Al-Queda, or the hijackers listed were actually responsible for and/or flew the planes that crashed into the WTC, Pentagon and Pennsylvania?
Is it true that some of the hijackers originally listed have been found to be alive and well as stated here? If so, then has there been a revised list? What "hard" evidence is there? I have read elsewhere that up to 8 of the 19 hijackers originally listed have been found alive and well and that their names have not been removed from the list. No new names have been added.
Is it true that the airline manifest records have been sealed so that no names of passengers are published? If the government itself has published the names of the 19 hijackers, what would be the purpose of having the airlines withhold the names?
Did FBI Director Robert Mueller really say to the Commonwealth Club of San Francisco that "In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper -in the U.S. or in Afghanistan - that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot."?
Is it true that September 11, 2001 is the only date in US history in which our Air Defense System failed since it's inception? If so, why?
And what of the United Airlines and American Airlines unusually large stock shortings? Was there an investigation? If so, who profitted?
Just some honest questions. I'm sure there is hard, conclusive evidence to back up all of the above assertions in the positive, but I have not seen it yet.
Is it true that some of the hijackers originally listed have been found to be alive and well as stated here? If so, then has there been a revised list? What "hard" evidence is there? I have read elsewhere that up to 8 of the 19 hijackers originally listed have been found alive and well and that their names have not been removed from the list. No new names have been added.
Is it true that the airline manifest records have been sealed so that no names of passengers are published? If the government itself has published the names of the 19 hijackers, what would be the purpose of having the airlines withhold the names?
Did FBI Director Robert Mueller really say to the Commonwealth Club of San Francisco that "In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper -in the U.S. or in Afghanistan - that mentioned any aspect of the September 11th plot."?
Is it true that September 11, 2001 is the only date in US history in which our Air Defense System failed since it's inception? If so, why?
And what of the United Airlines and American Airlines unusually large stock shortings? Was there an investigation? If so, who profitted?
Just some honest questions. I'm sure there is hard, conclusive evidence to back up all of the above assertions in the positive, but I have not seen it yet.
Destructo6
New member
Bad link there.
No, they are innuendo.
Michigander
New member
Lack of evidence = innuendo.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1133186/posts
The Saddam-9/11 Link Confirmed
FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | May 11, 2004 | Laurie Mylroie
Saddam at LEAST knew that 9/11 was coming.
Less than two months before 9/11/01, the state-controlled Iraqi newspaper “Al-Nasiriya” carried a column headlined, “American, an Obsession called Osama Bin Ladin.” (July 21, 2001)
In the piece, Baath Party writer Naeem Abd Muhalhal predicted that bin Laden would attack the US “with the seriousness of the Bedouin of the desert about the way he will try to bomb the Pentagon after he destroys the White House.”
The same state-approved column also insisted that bin Laden “will strike America on the arm that is already hurting,” and that the US “will curse the memory of Frank Sinatra every time he hears his songs” – an apparent reference to the Sinatra classic, “New York, New York”.
(Link below)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1106657/posts?page=1
List of newspaper article in the 90's which mention the world's concern regarding the growing relationship between OBL and Saddam: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/946809/posts?page=1
Son of Saddam coordinates OBL activities:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/951911/posts
The AQ connection (excellent):http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/944617/posts?page=2
Western Nightmare: http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,798270,00.html
Saddam's link to OBL: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/866105/posts
NYT: Iraq and AQ agree to cooperate: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/985906/posts
Document linking them: http://tennessean.com/nation-world/archives/03/06/34908297.shtml?Element_ID=34908297
Iraq and terrorism - no doubt about it: http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins091903.asp
A federal judge rules there are links:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/986293/posts
Wall Street Journal on Iraq and AQ:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987129/posts
Iraq and Iran contact OBL: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/981055/posts
More evidence: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/27/walq27.xml
Saddam's AQ connection: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/969032/posts
Further connections: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1007969/posts
What a court of law said about the connections:
http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/98110402.htm
Some miscellaneous stuff on connections:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/989201/posts
Saddam's Ambassador to Al Qaeda: (February 2004, Weekly Standard)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1083778/posts
Yes - it's NewsMax but loaded with interesting bullet points.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1097521/posts?page=1
Saddam's Fingerprints on NY Bombing (Wall Street Journal, June 1993)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1115387/posts
Colin Powell: Iraq and AQ Partners for Years (CNN, February 2003)
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/sprj.irq.alqaeda.links/
The Iraq-Al Qaeda Connections (September 2003, Richard Miniter)
http://www.techcentralstation.com/092503F.html
Oil for Food Scandal Ties Iraq and Al Qaeda (June 2003)
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1125899/posts
Saddam and OBL Make a Pact (The New Yorker, February 2003):
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030210fa_fact
Al Qaeda's Poison Gas (Wall Street Journal, April 2004):
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005016
Wolfowitz Says Saddam behind 9/11 Attacks:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/921398/posts
Saddam behind first WTC attack - PBS, Laurie Mylroie:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/mylroie.html
Growing Evidence of Saddam and Al Qaeda Link, The Weekly Standard, July 2003:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/946997/posts
Qusay Hussein Coordinated Iraq special operations with Bin Laden Terrorist Activities, Yossef Bodansky, National Press Club
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/951911/posts
The Western Nightmare: Saddam and Bin Laden vs. the Rest of the World, The Guardian Unlimited:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,798270,00.html
Saddam Link to Bin Laden, Julian Borger, The Guardian, February 1999
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/866105/posts
The Al Qaeda Connection, The Weekly Standard, July 2003
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/944617/posts?page=2
Cheney lectures Russert on Iraq/911 Link, September 2003:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/982713/posts
No Question About It, National Review, September 2003
http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins091903.asp
Iraq: A Federal Judges Point of View
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/986293/posts
Mohammed's Account links Iraq to 9/11 and OKC:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987075/posts
Free Republic Thread that mentions so me books Freepers might be interested in on this topic:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/977221/posts?page=8
The Proof that Saddam Worked with AQ, The Telegraph, April 2003:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/27/walq27.xml
Saddam's AQ Connection, The Weekly Standard, September 2003
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/969032/posts
September 11 Victims Sue Iraq:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2237332.stm
Osama's Best Friend: The Further Connections Between Al Qaeda and Saddam, The Weekly Standard, November 2003
Terrorist Behind 9/11 Attacks Trained by Saddam, The Telegraph, December 2003
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1007969/posts
James Woolsey Links Iraq and AQ, CNN Interview, March 2004, Also see Posts #34 and #35
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1104121/posts
A Geocities Interesting Web Site with maps and connections:
http://www.geocities.com/republican_strategist/Iraq-Bin-Laden.html
Bin Laden indicted in federal court, read down to find information that Bin Laden agreed to not attack Iraq and to work cooperatively with Iraq:
http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/98110402.htm
Case Closed, The Weekly Standard, November 03
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/378fmxyz.asp
CBS - Lawsuit: Iraq involved in 9/11:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/05/september11/main520874.shtml
Exploring Iraq's Involvement in pre-9/11 Acts, The Indianapolis Star:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/746225/posts
The Iraq/AQ Connection: Richard Minister again
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/989201/posts
Militia Defector says Baghdad trained Al Qaeda fighters in chemical weapons, July 2002
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/743892/posts
The Clinton View of Iraq/AQ Ties, The Weekly Standard, December 2003
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/527uwabl.asp
Saddam Controlled the Camps (Iraq/AQ Ties): The London Observer, November 01
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/741676/posts
Saddam's Terror Ties that Critics Ignore, National Review, October 2003:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1005579/posts
Tape Shows General Wesley Clark linking Iraq and AQ:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1056113/posts
The Saddam-9/11 Link Confirmed
FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | May 11, 2004 | Laurie Mylroie
Saddam at LEAST knew that 9/11 was coming.
Less than two months before 9/11/01, the state-controlled Iraqi newspaper “Al-Nasiriya” carried a column headlined, “American, an Obsession called Osama Bin Ladin.” (July 21, 2001)
In the piece, Baath Party writer Naeem Abd Muhalhal predicted that bin Laden would attack the US “with the seriousness of the Bedouin of the desert about the way he will try to bomb the Pentagon after he destroys the White House.”
The same state-approved column also insisted that bin Laden “will strike America on the arm that is already hurting,” and that the US “will curse the memory of Frank Sinatra every time he hears his songs” – an apparent reference to the Sinatra classic, “New York, New York”.
(Link below)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1106657/posts?page=1
List of newspaper article in the 90's which mention the world's concern regarding the growing relationship between OBL and Saddam: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/946809/posts?page=1
Son of Saddam coordinates OBL activities:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/951911/posts
The AQ connection (excellent):http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/944617/posts?page=2
Western Nightmare: http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,798270,00.html
Saddam's link to OBL: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/866105/posts
NYT: Iraq and AQ agree to cooperate: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/985906/posts
Document linking them: http://tennessean.com/nation-world/archives/03/06/34908297.shtml?Element_ID=34908297
Iraq and terrorism - no doubt about it: http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins091903.asp
A federal judge rules there are links:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/986293/posts
Wall Street Journal on Iraq and AQ:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987129/posts
Iraq and Iran contact OBL: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/981055/posts
More evidence: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/27/walq27.xml
Saddam's AQ connection: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/969032/posts
Further connections: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1007969/posts
What a court of law said about the connections:
http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/98110402.htm
Some miscellaneous stuff on connections:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/989201/posts
Saddam's Ambassador to Al Qaeda: (February 2004, Weekly Standard)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1083778/posts
Yes - it's NewsMax but loaded with interesting bullet points.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1097521/posts?page=1
Saddam's Fingerprints on NY Bombing (Wall Street Journal, June 1993)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1115387/posts
Colin Powell: Iraq and AQ Partners for Years (CNN, February 2003)
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/sprj.irq.alqaeda.links/
The Iraq-Al Qaeda Connections (September 2003, Richard Miniter)
http://www.techcentralstation.com/092503F.html
Oil for Food Scandal Ties Iraq and Al Qaeda (June 2003)
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1125899/posts
Saddam and OBL Make a Pact (The New Yorker, February 2003):
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030210fa_fact
Al Qaeda's Poison Gas (Wall Street Journal, April 2004):
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005016
Wolfowitz Says Saddam behind 9/11 Attacks:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/921398/posts
Saddam behind first WTC attack - PBS, Laurie Mylroie:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/mylroie.html
Growing Evidence of Saddam and Al Qaeda Link, The Weekly Standard, July 2003:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/946997/posts
Qusay Hussein Coordinated Iraq special operations with Bin Laden Terrorist Activities, Yossef Bodansky, National Press Club
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/951911/posts
The Western Nightmare: Saddam and Bin Laden vs. the Rest of the World, The Guardian Unlimited:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,798270,00.html
Saddam Link to Bin Laden, Julian Borger, The Guardian, February 1999
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/866105/posts
The Al Qaeda Connection, The Weekly Standard, July 2003
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/944617/posts?page=2
Cheney lectures Russert on Iraq/911 Link, September 2003:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/982713/posts
No Question About It, National Review, September 2003
http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins091903.asp
Iraq: A Federal Judges Point of View
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/986293/posts
Mohammed's Account links Iraq to 9/11 and OKC:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987075/posts
Free Republic Thread that mentions so me books Freepers might be interested in on this topic:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/977221/posts?page=8
The Proof that Saddam Worked with AQ, The Telegraph, April 2003:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/27/walq27.xml
Saddam's AQ Connection, The Weekly Standard, September 2003
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/969032/posts
September 11 Victims Sue Iraq:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2237332.stm
Osama's Best Friend: The Further Connections Between Al Qaeda and Saddam, The Weekly Standard, November 2003
Terrorist Behind 9/11 Attacks Trained by Saddam, The Telegraph, December 2003
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1007969/posts
James Woolsey Links Iraq and AQ, CNN Interview, March 2004, Also see Posts #34 and #35
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1104121/posts
A Geocities Interesting Web Site with maps and connections:
http://www.geocities.com/republican_strategist/Iraq-Bin-Laden.html
Bin Laden indicted in federal court, read down to find information that Bin Laden agreed to not attack Iraq and to work cooperatively with Iraq:
http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/98110402.htm
Case Closed, The Weekly Standard, November 03
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/378fmxyz.asp
CBS - Lawsuit: Iraq involved in 9/11:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/05/september11/main520874.shtml
Exploring Iraq's Involvement in pre-9/11 Acts, The Indianapolis Star:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/746225/posts
The Iraq/AQ Connection: Richard Minister again
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/989201/posts
Militia Defector says Baghdad trained Al Qaeda fighters in chemical weapons, July 2002
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/743892/posts
The Clinton View of Iraq/AQ Ties, The Weekly Standard, December 2003
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/527uwabl.asp
Saddam Controlled the Camps (Iraq/AQ Ties): The London Observer, November 01
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/741676/posts
Saddam's Terror Ties that Critics Ignore, National Review, October 2003:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1005579/posts
Tape Shows General Wesley Clark linking Iraq and AQ:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1056113/posts
Fred Hansen
New member
Don't confuse the leftists with the facts... they never believe that evil even exists, except maybe until they are jumping 100 stories to escape a burning building, or getting their heads sawed off with a dull knife. Then suddenly it seems so... so real. 
Nah! They think it's better to fiddle "Hey hey! Ho ho! U.S. out of North America got to go! Hey hey! Ho ho..." While America burns. :barf: :barf:
I used to let the traitors and sympathizers with radical Islam get me so mad that I would get banned as I did on THR. No more. They aren't worth it.
DNFTTs
Nah! They think it's better to fiddle "Hey hey! Ho ho! U.S. out of North America got to go! Hey hey! Ho ho..." While America burns. :barf: :barf:
I used to let the traitors and sympathizers with radical Islam get me so mad that I would get banned as I did on THR. No more. They aren't worth it.
DNFTTs
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Jamie Young
New member
Check your PM, FIX!
Michigander
New member
johnr, with all due respect, I did not mention Iraq once. I did not ask about any connection between AQ and Iraq once either.
Would you please narrow your list of articles to the ones that answer my questions.
Unless you were not addressing my questions. In which case, I'm still looking for answers.
In any case, there has been many, many threats against the United States over the years, most not so "cryptic." If a threat determines responsibility, then there are many more responsible than just AQ.
Thanks.
Would you please narrow your list of articles to the ones that answer my questions.
Unless you were not addressing my questions. In which case, I'm still looking for answers.
In any case, there has been many, many threats against the United States over the years, most not so "cryptic." If a threat determines responsibility, then there are many more responsible than just AQ.
Thanks.
Last edited:
Destructo6
New member
Read the speech, in its entirety. Not hard to find, if you had wanted.
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/speeches/speech041902.htm
What air defense system? If you think there are armed military planes cicling every major city 24/7, you've seen too many bad movies.
BTW, it appears that Don edited/deleted all of his posts, so you get the rather odd effect of replies to nonexistant posts.
- Status