locknloader
New member
Ahhhh thank you, i don't have a case feeder, but i have a feeling it wont be long before i get one. That would speed up things quite a bit!
progresive press
- Thread starter Pchris
- Start date
Dillon in my opinion is the way to go unless you on a tight budget.
I really like my dillon 650 the only thing i dont like about dillon is that i cant go to the reloading shop and buy anything for dillon. You have to order everything on line unlike RCBS or Lyman that you can get at the store if your in a pinch.
I really like my dillon 650 the only thing i dont like about dillon is that i cant go to the reloading shop and buy anything for dillon. You have to order everything on line unlike RCBS or Lyman that you can get at the store if your in a pinch.
drain smith
New member
I wish I could afford a Dillon..... Wait I can but I chose a press that makes their own bullet feeder and other accessories and does not rely on another company to make their press complete.
drain smith
New member
I got more but you get the idea.
drain smith
New member
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Satchmoeddie
New member
Thanks for everyone's input. I got a pretty beat up well used RCBS & a MEC from an old WWII vet neighbor who passed away in 2013. I used to get wheel gun, .30-06, .270, & .45ACP from him, but those presses & everything have seen better days. I had the Dillon & Hornady websites open before I read this, so it looks like I am on the right path. I have friends that use Lee & Lyman, and yeah, meh, uhm, erm. Not top tier stuff. The old RCBS stuff may go to one of them. That's how much they like Lyman & Lee. They are ogling my old used junk press. The MEC is not too bad. He didn't load shotgun shells, like he did pistol & rifle. My only experience with Hornady was building a 50Hz converter inverters to run a European machines on American 60Hz power, back during the ammo shortage. I was very impressed with the Hornady equipment.
JeepHammer
Moderator
Drain Smith must have stock in Hornady! 
Honestly, Hornady was the least problems next to Dillon.
It's WAY too expensive for casual reloaders, but Dillon Super 1050 is the least issues of the presses I've used. It has 'Issues', but it works longer & harder than any progressive I've tried so far.
Less glitches than a Camdex even... Which start about $34,000 and go up from there.
I know you can't put a manual Dillon & factory driven Camdex in the same category, just an example of how the presses stack up on problems/parts.
For around $600 the Dillon XL650 makes most people crazy happy, small complaints & reliable production.
I have die hard Hornady fan friends, but they don't complain about the Dillons, so I'm good with that.
Someone will make a straight line press for smaller volume someday (one that works), and I'll try that one for sure.
Straight line let's you get to/monitor everything easier, (like Camdex) but the two or three small scale commercial tries failed. Someone will try it again, and I'm in when they do.
Good luck with your press & loading!
Honestly, Hornady was the least problems next to Dillon.
It's WAY too expensive for casual reloaders, but Dillon Super 1050 is the least issues of the presses I've used. It has 'Issues', but it works longer & harder than any progressive I've tried so far.
Less glitches than a Camdex even... Which start about $34,000 and go up from there.
I know you can't put a manual Dillon & factory driven Camdex in the same category, just an example of how the presses stack up on problems/parts.
For around $600 the Dillon XL650 makes most people crazy happy, small complaints & reliable production.
I have die hard Hornady fan friends, but they don't complain about the Dillons, so I'm good with that.
Someone will make a straight line press for smaller volume someday (one that works), and I'll try that one for sure.
Straight line let's you get to/monitor everything easier, (like Camdex) but the two or three small scale commercial tries failed. Someone will try it again, and I'm in when they do.
Good luck with your press & loading!
drain smith
New member
Six months before I bought my first press I watched every youtube on reloading that I could. The next thing I did was I stalked reloaders at the local gun shop that sells reloading supplies. I would be there at least 3 night a week and at least 1 day on the weekend. If I saw someone would pick up some primers, some powder or bullets I would ask them if they reloaded. When they said yes I always asked what kind of press they use. When they told me I would say "I would like to see that work" Now most males like to show off and some like to help you out and a lot of them would invite me over to watch.
The first press I go to go see was a Hornady AP. Now this man was proud of his press. But when I got there I found that the timing on his press was so bad that he didn't prime on his press and he had to manual advance the shell plate to go into the dies. The next three presses I saw were all Lee's One was a single stage one was a turret and the other one was a Load Master. All loaded better than the Hornady. So I basically wrote the Hornady off. Now, the next 2 presses were the Dillon 550. Needless to say, I am not impressed with the manual advance. Then I had a young 20 some year old that told me that he used a Hornady AP. I told him I had tried one and what problems that I found. He just explained that the timing was off. So not to be disrespectable I followed him home. And damn if he wasn't right. That press ran perfectly. Now, 4 months into my search I was at the LGS and in walks, my DR. Come to find out he loads on a 650 and 1050 both with case feeders.
Well, after 6 months I had made up my mind and found myself on the phone with Dillon. I had just ordered a 650 and a 1050 and was being treated like a king. As I was ordering the accessories that I needed I ask about a bullet feeder. That is when I was treated like a king to a zero. At that point, I canceled my ordered and got online with Midway and ordered a Hornady Ammo-plant and a single stage.
Now, most folks would be happy to get their Hornady running as good as a Dillon. This was not my goal. I wanted my Hornady to outrun the Dillon.
And I have. For the last 4 years, I have offered to bet my 100% Hornady up against any 100% Dillon.
Note to Dillon:
1. Don't rely on another company to complete your press and 2. Don't piss an old geezer off.
The first press I go to go see was a Hornady AP. Now this man was proud of his press. But when I got there I found that the timing on his press was so bad that he didn't prime on his press and he had to manual advance the shell plate to go into the dies. The next three presses I saw were all Lee's One was a single stage one was a turret and the other one was a Load Master. All loaded better than the Hornady. So I basically wrote the Hornady off. Now, the next 2 presses were the Dillon 550. Needless to say, I am not impressed with the manual advance. Then I had a young 20 some year old that told me that he used a Hornady AP. I told him I had tried one and what problems that I found. He just explained that the timing was off. So not to be disrespectable I followed him home. And damn if he wasn't right. That press ran perfectly. Now, 4 months into my search I was at the LGS and in walks, my DR. Come to find out he loads on a 650 and 1050 both with case feeders.
Well, after 6 months I had made up my mind and found myself on the phone with Dillon. I had just ordered a 650 and a 1050 and was being treated like a king. As I was ordering the accessories that I needed I ask about a bullet feeder. That is when I was treated like a king to a zero. At that point, I canceled my ordered and got online with Midway and ordered a Hornady Ammo-plant and a single stage.
Now, most folks would be happy to get their Hornady running as good as a Dillon. This was not my goal. I wanted my Hornady to outrun the Dillon.
And I have. For the last 4 years, I have offered to bet my 100% Hornady up against any 100% Dillon.
Note to Dillon:
1. Don't rely on another company to complete your press and 2. Don't piss an old geezer off.
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Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Never buy a progressive press just to supplement another's fun & giggles shooting.
You know the old adages: "Buy a rifle you can afford to shoot. Because cartridges do not grow on backyard tree's."
We all like to spoil our Grand kids. But sometimes there needs to be a limit set. ~~Unless your a millionaire then by all means spoil'em to your hearts content.
You know the old adages: "Buy a rifle you can afford to shoot. Because cartridges do not grow on backyard tree's."
We all like to spoil our Grand kids. But sometimes there needs to be a limit set. ~~Unless your a millionaire then by all means spoil'em to your hearts content.
youngridge
New member
You aren’t by any chance looking for any adoptive grandchildren are you?
Jk good luck in finding a press.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jk good luck in finding a press.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
nukeandjuke
New member
I wish I could afford a Dillon..... Wait I can but I chose a press that makes their own bullet feeder and other accessories and does not rely on another company to make their press complete.
I am not worthy...all hail drain smith
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nukeandjuke
New member
Idk...I’m not a stalker. I have a LNL and a 650. They are equals in my opinion. LNL bullet feeders want to work with Hornady pistol bullets. They also don’t work with lead bullets. Dillon has benefits but they also have their faults. Equals in my mind
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JeepHammer
Moderator
I had a LNL on the bench when I got the Dillon XL650.
The Dillon was a slow start, took me a week or so to catch up with the way Dillon did things after spending more than a year on the LNL, and I was skeptical of Dillon.
The Dillon was a gift, and I wasn't intending to head that direction...
After getting the Dillon timed & tuned, the Dillon was a lot less problems over time.
The rate depended entirely on how lazy I was that day, but when I got ambition, the Dillon just flat out ran the LNL, the LNL has more glitches the faster you run it...
After a few months, I found a deal on a Super 1050, and an offer on the LNL, the LNL was gone and I had to learn ANOTHER press, and tool up for another press...
The 1050 is three times the price of a 650, and tooling will make parts of you pucker when you see the bill, but it just flat blows the doors off LNL/650.
It takes a CRAP LOAD of production to make a progressive with 'Extras' pay off!
$250 for case feeder, $500 for bullet feeder, $500-$750 for basic press ready to run,
That's not even getting into extra caliber changes, tool heads, dies, powder throwers, etc.
And let's not forget bench/bench space, storage, lighting etc.
That's also assuming you have basic loading equipment, scales, manual press to take down culls, measuring equipment, etc.
The Dillon was a slow start, took me a week or so to catch up with the way Dillon did things after spending more than a year on the LNL, and I was skeptical of Dillon.
The Dillon was a gift, and I wasn't intending to head that direction...
After getting the Dillon timed & tuned, the Dillon was a lot less problems over time.
The rate depended entirely on how lazy I was that day, but when I got ambition, the Dillon just flat out ran the LNL, the LNL has more glitches the faster you run it...
After a few months, I found a deal on a Super 1050, and an offer on the LNL, the LNL was gone and I had to learn ANOTHER press, and tool up for another press...
The 1050 is three times the price of a 650, and tooling will make parts of you pucker when you see the bill, but it just flat blows the doors off LNL/650.
It takes a CRAP LOAD of production to make a progressive with 'Extras' pay off!
$250 for case feeder, $500 for bullet feeder, $500-$750 for basic press ready to run,
That's not even getting into extra caliber changes, tool heads, dies, powder throwers, etc.
And let's not forget bench/bench space, storage, lighting etc.
That's also assuming you have basic loading equipment, scales, manual press to take down culls, measuring equipment, etc.
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Jim Watson
New member
A friend has a Hornady progressive and likes it, but he has installed about every upgrade and applied most of the Internet Tweaks. He feels he could have been doing good loading sooner with a Dillon.
I have a 550 and a 1050, stepping up from SDB and bypassing 650.
I am frequently amazed at the number of people who buy a progressive and then do so much work off line, defeating the "one pull, one round" principle. But I guess if you want clean primer pockets in your blasting ammo, you have to do the work.
I have a 550 and a 1050, stepping up from SDB and bypassing 650.
I am frequently amazed at the number of people who buy a progressive and then do so much work off line, defeating the "one pull, one round" principle. But I guess if you want clean primer pockets in your blasting ammo, you have to do the work.
JeepHammer
Moderator
Jim, running cases through the press TWICE, once to process, once to load, often produces superior ammo...
The amount of processing depends on you! Blasting ammo or match (or better) ammo is entirely up to you.
Uniforming/deburring flash holes is possible when you aren't trying to do everything on the first pass through the press, same with trimming after sizing, etc.
You simply change tool heads and load the case feeder a second time, and you produce a much better product...
Keep in mind, that during processing, some of us don't pull the handle.
We fill the feeder and turn on the drive for the press.
Loading live rounds with a motor requires the government getting involved, so I manually load...
Depends on what you want on the other end of the process... Entirely up to you!
The amount of processing depends on you! Blasting ammo or match (or better) ammo is entirely up to you.
Uniforming/deburring flash holes is possible when you aren't trying to do everything on the first pass through the press, same with trimming after sizing, etc.
You simply change tool heads and load the case feeder a second time, and you produce a much better product...
Keep in mind, that during processing, some of us don't pull the handle.
We fill the feeder and turn on the drive for the press.
Loading live rounds with a motor requires the government getting involved, so I manually load...
Depends on what you want on the other end of the process... Entirely up to you!
Jim Watson
New member
I load match rifle ammo on the good old Rockchucker.
I single stage pistol ammo for critical chronograph and rest testing.
I have not yet found a use for short circuiting the progressive, although I know it is done for some applications.
The Blue Press once had a piece on the rifle team that loaded XC ammo in two passes on Dillons.
There was a brag piece about the Palma team that loaded ammo on Dillons. I found a detailed article that gave The Rest of the Story. They used a $3000 electromechanical powder dispenser and they flat wore out two Dillons, with the last ammo produced on shaky machines not nearly as accurate as the early stuff.
I know a Dillon fan who says "Mike Dillon's son loads benchrest ammo on a Dillon." Didn't say he loaded WINNING ammo on a progressive.
I single stage pistol ammo for critical chronograph and rest testing.
I have not yet found a use for short circuiting the progressive, although I know it is done for some applications.
The Blue Press once had a piece on the rifle team that loaded XC ammo in two passes on Dillons.
There was a brag piece about the Palma team that loaded ammo on Dillons. I found a detailed article that gave The Rest of the Story. They used a $3000 electromechanical powder dispenser and they flat wore out two Dillons, with the last ammo produced on shaky machines not nearly as accurate as the early stuff.
I know a Dillon fan who says "Mike Dillon's son loads benchrest ammo on a Dillon." Didn't say he loaded WINNING ammo on a progressive.
JeepHammer
Moderator
1050 doesn't have a lifetime warranty, so when the 1050 got worn, I put a zero lash pin press bearing in it. One of my 650s got a bronze bushing with lubrication grooves, not enough frame for a press bearing.
Greatly extends the life of the presses.
The 1050 has about a million rounds and still VERY tight.
It's the difference between consumer grade & industral grade.
I know why Dillon doesn't use roller press bearings, they intended their machines to be hand powered, I drive them faster & longer than Dillon ever intended.
I've actually reproduced a heavier version of the 1050 frame so I can use even better bearings, just haven't had the time to complete it, but I'm hoping to complete that now things in the shop have slowed down a little...
Dillon has to deal with cost/benefit and not so educated users/abusers, and I get that...
Not every friction surface needs to have roller bearings when hand operated a 1,000 rounds a month, when you do 1,500 cases an hour, all day long every day, it's a different story...
Dillon does a very good job, a good balance between 'China' parts, quality American parts, application vs cost. The design works, the parts fit, the machine holds adjustment simply because friction/wear is kept to a minimum...
I can't even imagine how much a 650 would cost if the plastic parts were machined steel and hardened against wear, roller bearings were installed at friction points, etc.
It's basically a weekend reloader machine that's just not going to be used in seriously high volume work, so what they use saves a crap load of time & money, and with the 650 replacement parts are free and Dillon doesn't crank about living up to the warranty...
My bench rifle ammo is still cranked out on a single, iron frame press.
My match ammo is cranked out on my rebuilt 1050. I have no complaints.
My brass for the match shooter is cranked out on a rebuilt 1050, and they do win matches.
I don't load them, but I do beat the cases back into shape so they have a top notch product to start with.
Every match shooter has their favorite load, so cranking out loaded ammo is pointless (the money is in the brass anyway, no small repop shop has a chance to compete with commercial manufacturers.
As for 'Electro-Mechanical', yup, count me in.
Nothing like taking human error and having everything double checked, and very much volume at all and the QC inspection will eat up as much time as the actual processing & loading.
Don't forget, match shooters are the most demanding customers you will ever have.
Bench rifle shooters don't buy enough reconditioned brass to talk about, but match shooters are ALWAYS practicing or competing, so they go through brass like crazy, and they aren't snobs, if once (or more) fired brass can be made to run with factory ammo, they will jump on the cost savings/availability.
It's up to you what you do, most home loaders don't roll cases, they don't anneal in volume, they don't uniform & deburr flash holes, etc. Just cranking rounds directly out of a progressive is going to give them a more consistent case/load than they/their firearms have the ability to detect the difference.
Not so with match shooters... So if you can crank out match quality rounds, no reason to shoot for plinking quality rounds, take advantage of the accuracy the machine provides.
Greatly extends the life of the presses.
The 1050 has about a million rounds and still VERY tight.
It's the difference between consumer grade & industral grade.
I know why Dillon doesn't use roller press bearings, they intended their machines to be hand powered, I drive them faster & longer than Dillon ever intended.
I've actually reproduced a heavier version of the 1050 frame so I can use even better bearings, just haven't had the time to complete it, but I'm hoping to complete that now things in the shop have slowed down a little...
Dillon has to deal with cost/benefit and not so educated users/abusers, and I get that...
Not every friction surface needs to have roller bearings when hand operated a 1,000 rounds a month, when you do 1,500 cases an hour, all day long every day, it's a different story...
Dillon does a very good job, a good balance between 'China' parts, quality American parts, application vs cost. The design works, the parts fit, the machine holds adjustment simply because friction/wear is kept to a minimum...
I can't even imagine how much a 650 would cost if the plastic parts were machined steel and hardened against wear, roller bearings were installed at friction points, etc.
It's basically a weekend reloader machine that's just not going to be used in seriously high volume work, so what they use saves a crap load of time & money, and with the 650 replacement parts are free and Dillon doesn't crank about living up to the warranty...
My bench rifle ammo is still cranked out on a single, iron frame press.
My match ammo is cranked out on my rebuilt 1050. I have no complaints.
My brass for the match shooter is cranked out on a rebuilt 1050, and they do win matches.
I don't load them, but I do beat the cases back into shape so they have a top notch product to start with.
Every match shooter has their favorite load, so cranking out loaded ammo is pointless (the money is in the brass anyway, no small repop shop has a chance to compete with commercial manufacturers.
As for 'Electro-Mechanical', yup, count me in.
Nothing like taking human error and having everything double checked, and very much volume at all and the QC inspection will eat up as much time as the actual processing & loading.
Don't forget, match shooters are the most demanding customers you will ever have.
Bench rifle shooters don't buy enough reconditioned brass to talk about, but match shooters are ALWAYS practicing or competing, so they go through brass like crazy, and they aren't snobs, if once (or more) fired brass can be made to run with factory ammo, they will jump on the cost savings/availability.
It's up to you what you do, most home loaders don't roll cases, they don't anneal in volume, they don't uniform & deburr flash holes, etc. Just cranking rounds directly out of a progressive is going to give them a more consistent case/load than they/their firearms have the ability to detect the difference.
Not so with match shooters... So if you can crank out match quality rounds, no reason to shoot for plinking quality rounds, take advantage of the accuracy the machine provides.