progresive press

Now I do not ever recommend a press for anyone. First I don't know how smart you are and second I do not know your mechanical ability. If you are low on either buy your ammo, if you are high on both any progressive will work.

On your original post, you were asking about RCBS and Hornady. But as you can see the Dillon boys chimed in at 4 to 1. The only time I hear crickets from them is when I want to bet my 100% Hornady up against their 100% Dillon.

Now to lay some facts on you. As of today, Midway has the following prices on Hornady equipment.
Hornady L-N-L AP press. $414.00
Hornady case feeder. $310.00
Hornady 22 cal bullet feeder $324.00
Hornady #16 shell plate. $35.00
Hornady small rifle case feeder plate. $29.00
Hornady powder cop. $30.00
All prices have been rounded to the nearest dollar. The total is $1160.00. If you shop around you might do better. You would have to use your dies and your own coffee cup for your left hand (because you won't need it) But you all so receive 700 free bullets. Even if you pick the 22 cal bullets (they are the cheapest) And they total in $133.00 savings.
This would get you close to your $1,000.00 limit. Let's see if the Dillon boys can do better.
 
Price isn't the only reason to pick a press ....or components for that matter.

I'm not saying the LNL is a bad press, it isn't...but neither is it a better press than a 650...especially in how the 650 handles its primers, durability, Dillon tech support, customer service, etc.

Out of 20 buddies that reload...3 have LNL, 1 the RCBS prog, a couple SDB's , 3 with 550's , one 1050....and the rest are 650's..../...1 of the guys that bought the LNL and 2 that bought the 550's have all said they wished they had bought the 650.... / ...yes the Dillon 650 costs a little more....but every time the LNL mis-feeds a primer ...it'll create a little furr ball in the back of your throat...and that price difference gets thinner and thinner...

I'd take your bet against your LNL ....any day with a 650..on durability, reliability, etc.... no disrespect to the LNL being in 2nd place ...but 2nd is the first loser...:D / my 650 has been cranking out about 30,000 rds of handgun ammo a year ...for last 15 yrs or so, and its not going anywhere.... ( the only red presses in my shop, are MEC hydraulic 9000 HN presses for shotshells in 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410.... )...:cool:.... sorry, couldn't resist...
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Last time I checked prices on Dillon 650 ...with case feeder, powder check, roller handle, strong mount, 1 set of Dillon dies & conversion kit it was about $ 1,165.... ...not enough difference to even make me consider a LNL....
 
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BigJimP First off I never said a bad thing about the Dillon press and never will. The problem I have is the rabid fervor the Dillon boys have.
I used to brag that my four Ammo-plants hadn't missed a primer since 23 May 2015 But last month after I swaged 2,000 rounds of .223 I didn't clean the slide and had a failure. But I went over 2 years and 8 months on all four of my Ammo-plants. Now, do you really think the 650s primer system is better? Just go to any forum or YouTube and type in "chain reaction primer tube failure" I know you will see Dillon pop up a lot. But you won't see Hornady pop up at all.

Now, as far as durability and reliability. You do know that Hornady offers the same rebuild that Dillons have don't you? You can find hundreds of examples of Dillon folks say "I sent my press in and it came back like brand new!" But have you ever heard off a Hornady being sent in for a rebuild? I'm sorry that you are the first loser.

Hey, $1,165.00 is a fine price for a 650. But for $5.00 less the Hornady comes with a bullet feeder. How much is that Dillon bullet feeder?...Oh, that's right they rely on another company to complete their press. And I am not sorry I couldn't resist either.

Now, do you want to call a truce or should we keep going?
 
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A lot of good advice. How many calibers are you looking to load? Changing calibers is more complex and more time consuming with more gadgets (bullet feeder/case feeder). And more costly. If your looking to load a single caliber or you dont change calibers very often the 650 is a great press. Else i would look at the 550. I think it also depends on if you loadkng rifle or pistol and if rifle for accuracy or volume. If rifle for precision, i prefer to wieigh each charge, trim after sizing, clean primer pockets etc. for me, even though i have a 550 and it can do rifle i prefer a single stage for rifle. If you are loading 223 for machine gun, 650 is the way to go imo.
 
"rabid fervor the Dillon boys have"
Sounds like the Dillons and the Honadies, they were reckless reloadin' boys, just don't let it end in shootin'...
 
i have the option to buy an RCBS 5 station press brand new at a reasonable price.
Click to expand...
I do not know what that means, The Piggy Back 11 RCBS press is a 5 station press but is limited to loading short cases.

And then there is the PRO 2000, I will not load on a progressive unless I have room for the lock out die. That is not a problem for me but it seems reloaders seat on one station and crimp on another station; that is a problem if they are using the 4 station press like the RL550 B.

F. Guffey
 
Pchris,
I do case processing in volume, and I reload 200k - 250k a year.
I've tried about all the progressive presses up till about 6 years ago when I got a Dillon XL650.
Now, keep in mind I spent a second retirement on presses & proprietary equipment for those presses...

Once you educate yourself on how the press works and how to tune it, Dillon simply works.
Most of the Dillon machine is proprietary, so you WILL have to gear up for Dillon, but it does work as advertised, and works much better when you tune it a little...
I was butt hurt about the price, but after about the third batch of rounds I got over that real quick!
I've added a couple aftermarket upgrades that worked well, a few more that were marginal.
Some hand fitting makes things work smoother/faster/better, you will figure that out pretty quickly as you use the machine, watch a few videos and converse with other owners.

Keep in mind the decision to buy a progressive is a TIME OVER MONEY decision...
If you want to load FASTER to save TIME, then your time is worth more than the ammo you consume.
If your time would be spent in front of the TV or some other non-productive effort, then the Progressive would be wasted money.
If you are cutting into something productive, then a progressive makes sense, but keep in mind there is a LEARNING CURVE, and you have to be capable of diagnosing issues with your ammo and be mechanically inclined enough to adjust the machine to produce proper ammo.

Some people simply can't keep up with the mechanical end of things in a processing machine, and often this is why people complain about progressive machines.
Some machines simply have unreasonably poor design and won't adjust to produce reasonable ammo, or won't stay in adjustment, and/or have parts or designs that wear/bend/break in very short time frames. These machines drive people nuts, I beat a Lee Load Master off the bench with a hammer after messing with it for a month or more, the design is faulty from the beginning, and the parts are simply too cheaply made & I'll fitting to ever work correctly for more than a hundred rounds at a time.

There ARE ISSUES with the Dillon machine, but they are small. The parts are high enough quality to do the job, the design actually works pretty well, and the customer support is excellent,the warranty is second to none.
You get what you pay for, the couple hundred extra dollars saves you TONS of time & effort, and if time savings is your consideration, then I can recommend Dillon over the other progressive machines I've messed with.

The Dillon XL650 will easily produce 400-450 .223 rounds an hour (once primer tubes are filled and with the optional case feeder, cases pre-lubed).
There are people that can crank out the advertised 650 an hour, I don't work that hard and I stop/sample for QC along the run just in case I need to adjust something... So it's 350 to 450 an hour.

With increased powder bin size, bullet feeder, etc, you can crank out the advertised 650 an hour and still stop a couple times for QC checks, but pumping that handle at 650 an hour is more work than I want to do, and I feel my QC suffers... I'd rather have quality than volume.

The XL650 cranks out handgun rounds quite well, the only issue I have is such a long stroke, a large rifle stroke for a short handgun case... Again, you can't have everything, but it does make a very good handgun round.
 
I chose the Hornady LNL over the Dillon 650 mainly because I found a great deal on the Hornady. I don't regret the decision.

Regarding the safety of reloading on a progressive I would argue that a single stage press has many more opportunities for errors than an auto indexing progressive. With an auto indexing press you place a new case down, put a bullet down and pull the handle - the efficiency of this also reduces the chance for human error. Setting up the dies is no different - if the dies are setup incorrectly on either press the rounds will have problems.
 
I don't think you mean that a single stage press has more opportunities for errors than an auto indexing. Rather that you meant to say a manual indexing press has more opportunities for errors. Not that I agree about applying that statement to a manual indexing press, but just wondering if single stage is what you meant to say.

With a manual indexing press you also place a new case and bullet and then index to the next station. But if some glitch presents itself, matters are not made worse as might happen with auto indexing.
 
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20+ years ago my first press was a lee pro1000. They were $99 at midway at the time and i believe that included dies. I purchased a second so i wouldnt have to change setup for another caliber. Over time i was quickly frustrated with the priming issues and shell plate rotation. I decided to but a 550b. Because the lee was all i knew (there was no internet forums and none of my friends reloaded) I thought progressive meant auto indexing. When i set up the dillon and found out it was manual indexing, i was very disappointed. There was no 650 at the time. After about a week of high volume and high quality ammo, i forgot about auto indexing and never looked back. I would make the same purchase today. The 550 is a blend of simplicity and speed. If you plan to reload a lot of different calibers this is the machine. If you want to reload 1 or maybe too and are loading extremely high volume (>1000) a week 650 is a better option imo. You need very high volume consistently. Dillon numbers are pretty accurate. A 550 with load about 500 rds an hr. If you really crank and set up a bunch of primer tubes and pound them out you can probably get close to 600.
 
I did mean that a progressive is safer than a single stage. This is a concern of the OP. With a progressive press you touch each piece of brass once. This reduces the chances of errors that a person can make.
 
Be sure and pick up a bullet puller. Trust me .
You will have a few "oops" while getting everything up and running and the puller comes in real handy. I use a kinetic puller so I can reuse the components.
Gary
 
I bought a Dillon 650 about a year ago to load .38. While I did compare prices, bottom dollar wasn't my deciding factor. All the research I did pointed towards Dillon having the best customer service. About 2 months ago, I had a mishap. A primer went off causing a chain reaction up the primer feed tube. It was basically an explosion. The steel pipe protecting the primer feed tube probably prevented me from any injury as the aluminum tube was ruptured in two! It also damaged the complete primer feeding system and destroyed the low primer sensor as well. I got together a parts list and called Dillon fully expecting to pay for all the parts as there was no way I could find any fault of the equipment. After telling the rep what had happened and giving him a list of what I needed, he said they would get them out asap and there would be no charge! Included in my package was a complete new primer feed assembly and everything else I needed plus a few things he figured might need replacing as well. Going by the parts price list it was probably at least $300 worth of parts! His only reply when I offered to pay was "We will take care of you". How can you put a price on equipment with service like this? In the 6 months I've owned the 650, Other than this mishap, I've probably loaded 10-12k rounds with only a few minor hiccups that were of my doing. Even then the Customer Service guys have been very patient in giving advice. I have a Lee progressive I use for .357 Mag and its been a good machine, although a lot slower. As you can tell, I'm sold on Dillon. Quality of equipment and the No BS Warranty can't be beat.
 
Ive had my 550 for over 25 years and tens of thousands of rounds. The ram began to get very sluggish. I took it apart and cleaned and lubed it according to their instructions put is back together and it was still not right. I called dillon to send it back as they offer a cleaning service for $67 including shipping. They said they would call me when it wss ready and i could pay before they shipped it back. Two weeks it was at my door, they replaced a ton of parts, just about everything other than the ram and the press itself. No charge and runs like new.
Best customer service anywhere. No question. This is why people drink the blue kool aid
 
I will be the first to give Dillon credit on the starting the great warranty that is known threw out the industry. Now, Dillon has the No BS Warranty, and Hornady has the No Risk Life Time Warranty. I don't know what the RCBS warrant is called but they are all almost the same thing.

I have bought 22 Hornady AP presses in different configurations and have sold 19 of them. So I have had the pleasure of calling Hornady many times. I let them know that the parts I was ordering I wanted to pay for and after I convinced them I was buying paperweights and selling perfectly running presses. So they sold me the parts that I needed.

Now, I have a habit whenever I call a company I wait for the "Company XYZ, this is ZYX, how can I help you" I then ask "How the hell are the kids from company XYZ?" There is always a moment of silence then they always say "Good how are you?" That is when I say "Not too bad for an old geezer" This set the tone of the entire conversation to follow. They find out that you have an ornery streak but you are willing to pick on your self.

Now this one time I called Hornady and got through with the "How the hell are the kids from Hornady" I got the immediate response "Not too bad how the hell is Smitty". She remembered who I was. Well, I told her that I had just got the new swage and had to try it out and proceeded to crush the snot out of the spring in the case slide because I was a Bonehead and didn't remove the V block and I wanted to buy a new spring because it was my fault. She then told me that they would send a new one at no charge because the instructions didn't say "Hey Bonehead remove the V block" I then told her if she wouldn't let me pay I wasn't going to give her my address. That is when she told me "Not only do we know who you are but we know where you live." Two days later not only did I get the new spring but I got the entire case slide assembly.

Now, I sent this photo to prove that I was the Bonehead, to no avail.
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@drain smith, what is this "V Block" you speak of? I just got the swage kit and am about to give it a whirl, any advice or tips would be appreciated (already read over the manual). Any tips on getting the swage depth dialed in or is it all trial and error?
 
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Now you notice the piece that pushes the brass into the shell plate? that is the V Block. You should all so notice that the swage has no place to go into the shell plate.
Now, for adjustment I raised the ram and adjusted the swage down until it touched the brass...lowered the ram and turned it down another 1/4 turn. That worked great for me a little more or less wouldn't hurt.
 
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