pro-gun liberalism
- Thread starter higgy1911
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Playboypenguin
Moderator
Are you serious?
I have to admit I vote on a couple of main issues, 2nd amendment, economy, and the war. I just wish that we could get a politician who you could actually beleive and respect. In my opinion any one who runs for major office owes some special interest group a lot of favoritism, lets all give healthy donations to the NRA and buy one for us
In all honesty I would vote for someone who I didn't agree with on all the issues if I knew they were straight forward and honest, not weasles trying to please everyone and no-one all at once.
In all honesty I would vote for someone who I didn't agree with on all the issues if I knew they were straight forward and honest, not weasles trying to please everyone and no-one all at once.
Beretta686
New member
Thoughts from a Liberal.........
Here's my take on it:
I'm one of those progressive, intensely secular, left wingers who likes the idea of health care for all, NPR, gay marriage, choice for women, keeping religion out of government and is tired of chicken-hawks wanting me to go fight their wars that their kids are too busy to fight (even though I make good $$$ doing it).
But also own a Machine Gun, SBR a suppressor, “assault rifles” and a wide variety of handguns with high-cap mags.
Most of the people I associate with are fellow liberals, who initially aren't too keen on guns or even hate them. So rather than debating gun control or the 2nd Amendment, I take them shooting and let them blast .22 rounds through my MAC-10 with silencer and watch their face light up (it's also great for getting you laid......).
Once they come to see that gun owners aren't nut jobs looking to start WWIII, they typically moderate their stance and develop an open-mind. However, "From My Cold Dead Hands" kinda scares most people who don't own guns and gives us a bad rap.
Here's my take on it:
I'm one of those progressive, intensely secular, left wingers who likes the idea of health care for all, NPR, gay marriage, choice for women, keeping religion out of government and is tired of chicken-hawks wanting me to go fight their wars that their kids are too busy to fight (even though I make good $$$ doing it).
But also own a Machine Gun, SBR a suppressor, “assault rifles” and a wide variety of handguns with high-cap mags.
Most of the people I associate with are fellow liberals, who initially aren't too keen on guns or even hate them. So rather than debating gun control or the 2nd Amendment, I take them shooting and let them blast .22 rounds through my MAC-10 with silencer and watch their face light up (it's also great for getting you laid......).
Once they come to see that gun owners aren't nut jobs looking to start WWIII, they typically moderate their stance and develop an open-mind. However, "From My Cold Dead Hands" kinda scares most people who don't own guns and gives us a bad rap.
toybox99615
New member
What's in it for me!
I believe that reflects the overall views of far to many voters. They fail to see the vision that there is a need to work together to live in society. Voters tend to vote the short term views for their pocketbook and fail to look at long term implications. Voters like the candidates who make them believe they are going to get the free lunch, lower taxes, bigger Social Security checks, and anything else that is going to benefit them first. Voter don't like to face the reality that any society, no matter how simply organized, will require choices and compromise to survive. The common good is more than a concept it is a commitment to work together for all not just work for your personal gains above all else.
I believe that reflects the overall views of far to many voters. They fail to see the vision that there is a need to work together to live in society. Voters tend to vote the short term views for their pocketbook and fail to look at long term implications. Voters like the candidates who make them believe they are going to get the free lunch, lower taxes, bigger Social Security checks, and anything else that is going to benefit them first. Voter don't like to face the reality that any society, no matter how simply organized, will require choices and compromise to survive. The common good is more than a concept it is a commitment to work together for all not just work for your personal gains above all else.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Some social conservatives want to make gun rights their sole province. NO one else need apply or support the cause. Typical group polarization.
Same thing happens on the left where gun ownership is a disqualifier for some in the cause.
People with rational minds see that this doesn't have to be the case but that takes away the ranting. Lots of folks like the ranting.
Thus, I explained it.
Same thing happens on the left where gun ownership is a disqualifier for some in the cause.
People with rational minds see that this doesn't have to be the case but that takes away the ranting. Lots of folks like the ranting.
Thus, I explained it.
chris in va
New member
Every browse the monuments in DC? You would be suprised. Many, many references. 'Religion' has a VERY important role in government. Or used to until things got screwed up.
But to keep this from getting locked...AR-15, Glock, H&K etc etc.
I was in DC a few years ago, and went to the FDR memorial. One of the quotes was one I was familiar with, as it concerned TVA, a rather prominent entity in my home area. I was amazed to find that the reference to God in the quote had been redacted.
Nothing like changing history to suit modern concerns.
Personally I don't believe religion should have much to do with government. My behavior should not be deemed appropriate or innappropriate by my government based on a set of ethics that is peculiar to a faith-based belief system.
However, I hate...HATE...to hear people whine about "In God We Trust" and Ten Commandments in Court Houses etc etc. I really have no problem with it at all. As long as I don't have to follow the mandates of someone elses faith I have no problem with Officials excercising their own faith, even in the course of their duties. By all means prayer should be allowed in schools, and any function where someone wants to pray.
The Pledge thing is interesting, since the religous reference was added later, so I don't have a problem reverting back to the original. But I've read enough to believe that our founders were on the whole fairly religous persons. And that our country is in large degree founded on religous principles.
However, basing code of law on religous ethics violates anoher very important principle that this country was founded on. Don't Tread on Me. I'm for the seperation of church and state.
but I'll be glad to use Luke 22:36(I think that's right) to support my right to bear arms.
However, I hate...HATE...to hear people whine about "In God We Trust" and Ten Commandments in Court Houses etc etc. I really have no problem with it at all. As long as I don't have to follow the mandates of someone elses faith I have no problem with Officials excercising their own faith, even in the course of their duties. By all means prayer should be allowed in schools, and any function where someone wants to pray.
The Pledge thing is interesting, since the religous reference was added later, so I don't have a problem reverting back to the original. But I've read enough to believe that our founders were on the whole fairly religous persons. And that our country is in large degree founded on religous principles.
However, basing code of law on religous ethics violates anoher very important principle that this country was founded on. Don't Tread on Me. I'm for the seperation of church and state.
but I'll be glad to use Luke 22:36(I think that's right) to support my right to bear arms.
JuanCarlos
New member
That bolded part there is where you failed. Specifically the italicized portion (it's just one letter, you might have missed it). It doesn't matter if you are okay with it, or even if a majority are okay with it. It doesn't make it Constitutional, nor does it make it right. Just something to consider.
As for the original topic, I think it's because a vast majority of Americans really don't care about gun rights. So the Democrats and/or liberals (choose your label) noticed that more of their constituents that did care were for gun control, and the Republicans and/or conservatives noticed the opposite, and they both pretty much went all-in and chose their sides. With our current voting system, you're only going to get two real choices, which just served to further polarize it.
All gun rights supporters may not be conservatives, but I'm pretty sure that a majority of them are. And it seems a vast majority of those who consider it their top-priority issue are.
There are plenty of liberal or moderate gun enthusiasts/activists. You just don't hear much about or from them because they generally hang out with anti-gun people who agree with them on the other 90% of issues important to them. Same for the anti-gun conservatives (yes, such animals do exist, at least as long as you insist on simplifying to a one-dimensional political spectrum).
And your most vocal pro-gun voices will generally wind up being conservatives (thus furthering the stereotype) because it's much easier to be vocal on an issue when a majority of your peers either agree or don't care. Same way it's not exactly a daring stance to be a pro-gay rights liberal.
EDIT: If none of that made sense, you'll have to pardon me...it's been a long day.
Guys: You're all making great points IMHO but, as higgy asked, "why did liberals adopt the anti-gun philosophy"?
It's a mystery to me because I don't see why being a leftie would necessarily make you so anti-gun?
I just don't get it. What is it about the current liberal philosophy that makes them so anti-gun? Why do they approve, in the main, of abolishing the most "freedom enhancing" amendment in the BOR's?
You'd think they'd EMBRACE the 2nd Amendment for all intents and purposes? They're liberal for Godsakes!
I mean, the 2nd Amendment is there to guard against tyranny and lawlessness. Why would a liberal reject this logical amendment to the BOR's? I've just plain never understood their relatively "recent" rallying around the anti-gun movement.
Why do liberals want only the military and police to own all the firearms? Liberals tend to distrust the military and police FAR MORE than conservatives, yet they want the military and police to own all the firearms.
It's so wacko that I can't get a handle on their ridiculous rejection of private firearms ownership.
It's a mystery to me because I don't see why being a leftie would necessarily make you so anti-gun?
I just don't get it. What is it about the current liberal philosophy that makes them so anti-gun? Why do they approve, in the main, of abolishing the most "freedom enhancing" amendment in the BOR's?
You'd think they'd EMBRACE the 2nd Amendment for all intents and purposes? They're liberal for Godsakes!
I mean, the 2nd Amendment is there to guard against tyranny and lawlessness. Why would a liberal reject this logical amendment to the BOR's? I've just plain never understood their relatively "recent" rallying around the anti-gun movement.
Why do liberals want only the military and police to own all the firearms? Liberals tend to distrust the military and police FAR MORE than conservatives, yet they want the military and police to own all the firearms.
It's so wacko that I can't get a handle on their ridiculous rejection of private firearms ownership.
Also, liberals tend to be moral relativists. Morality and truth lies within the individual. Conservatives tend to recognize a standard of behavior and moral code. Liberals think that is narrow minded, perhaps stupid. They are more idealists than pragmatists.
Because of that, liberals tend to not view problems as having a moral source. Guns have been around and readily available for generations but current violence with guns is the fault of gun availability. Or the manufacturer. Anything but decreasing moral values.
Because of that, liberals tend to not view problems as having a moral source. Guns have been around and readily available for generations but current violence with guns is the fault of gun availability. Or the manufacturer. Anything but decreasing moral values.
Just pay attention to who sponsors all the gun banning legislation. Clue stick. It isn't the conservative parties.
I really don't understand exactly how our political system has evolved into a creature in such tight control by the Republican and Democratic parties. At times I wish we had more of a parliamentary system where smaller parties can actually get representation and things get done by forming coalitions. I do gain a small bit of comfort that within each of our party something similar does occur when factions form. The OP sounds like what has been called a blue dog democrat.
Frankly I will never vote Democrat on a national level as long as that party leadership consistently is dominated by the moonbat far left which places the state above the individual as a matter of principle. To me like others gun rights is the canary in the coal mine when it comes to attitudes toward freedom.
Original poster make your opinions known within your party and curb your leadership. It seems to me they SHOULD be very pro gun. It accepts the logic a woman can kill at will a defenseless baby as a right. Why should it have a problem with accepting an individual has the right to self defense and use deadly force?
Beretta686
New member
I think Glenn hit the issue on the head.
I see it here online, at the gun range, in my orderly room, everywhere. People assume all sorts of things about liberals, from being degenerate heathens to being America-hating reds and everything in between. Rather than people who may be of a different political persuasion about other issues.
If you see it from many people's perspective the only time they see guns and gun owners is either film/TV, the news where some wack-job shoots up somewhere with an "assault rifle", or some select soundbite on the news from some idiot in a trailer-park about needing the 2A to take on on the Tri-Lateral commission, UN and the Micky Mouse-Fan club when they take over the world (think the Wing Commander on Dr. Strangelove and his "bodily fluids"-type).
Trust me, many people think the average gun owner is a Rush Limbaugh loving, evolution-hating fundamentalist whose just waiting to blow someone away when the black-helicopters land in their front yard. Rhetoric such as “From my cold dead hands” just reinforces the stereotype that much more, rather than the idea of rational people who just enjoy a safe, fun sport.
So next time someone says something about guns being bad, rather than getting mad or trying to debate them about the 2A, CCWs, assualt rifles, black helicopters, armagedon, etc, etc; politely offer to take them shooting.
If they keep making excuses you know their more interested in being "right" rather than "correct" and you can stop wasting your time. On the other hand if they accept and you show them a good time then you have done something for out sport.
My 22/45 Ruger won many, many, many converts during my under-grad time at Texas’ bastion of Liberalism: UT-Austin by just letting people shoot it and not challanging their stereotypes directly.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Who's fault does stupidity belong to? Everything about that is wrong. The phrase is another way of saying 'freedom or death'. It's extremely difficult to educate someone who has no interest in honesty or accuracy. And for me, shooting isn't a sport.
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