But, you still do not know what would have happened had you merely informed the Sheriff that you sold it at a local gun show to someone who showed proper ID, but you don't remember his name. I will NOT give out my DL#, address or anything else to anyone when it comes to FTF sales. I will SHOW you my pic ID, but you won't be writing anything down.
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Private firearms sales. Potential liability?
- Thread starter Sinatra_Gunz1
- Start date
But, you still do not know what would have happened had you merely informed the Sheriff that you sold it at a local gun show to someone who showed proper ID, but you don't remember his name. I will NOT give out my DL#, address or anything else to anyone when it comes to FTF sales. I will SHOW you my pic ID, but you won't be writing anything down.
We all agree that doing a FTF at your home is a really bad idea.... So, why would anybody provide their drivers license with their home address on it. Just dumb.
Jim
I agree with the no in your home sale. How is the seller to know who the person is without a drivers license. Could be from out of state. I'm confused with that part of the reply.
But, you still do not know what would have happened had you merely informed the Sheriff that you sold it at a local gun show to someone who showed proper ID, but you don't remember his name. I will NOT give out my DL#, address or anything else to anyone when it comes to FTF sales. I will SHOW you my pic ID, but you won't be writing anything down.
That's your right to do so and you would never buy anything from me as its my right because I want a paper trail to cover my ass in the sale. Read my post from today #38 and for what would have happened without the bill of sale?? I'm glad I didn't have to find out the hard way.
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and for what would have happened without the bill of sale??
I read it, and you still don't know what - IF ANYTHING- would have happened to you. "Sorry, officer, I sold it XX months ago at a gun show to a guy who showed me his DL and CWFL and I don't remember his name"...........
You ask them if they are a resident. As a buyer I would not know who you are so I'm not going to give you my personal info.How is the seller to know who the person is without a drivers license. Could be from out of state. I'm confused with that part of the reply.
Would you as a seller provide the buyer with your DL? After all, you might be from out of state or selling him a stolen gun or one used in a crime.
Jim
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Which seems to bring us back to what I wrote in post #40:moonglum said:A drivers license and I will take a picture of it
No, you won't. If it's that big a deal then we can do a transfer through an FFL but you are not going to make any copy of any document that you can use to steal my identity.
Aguila Blanca said:And therein lies the crux of the issue: As buyers, we would prefer NOT to give out any personal information that's not required by law. For personal security. But as sellers, we need to get as much personal information on the buyer as possible ... for [our] personal security. It's a fundamental case of conflicting priorities, and how each of us resolves that is going to have to be a personal decision.
I don't own a lot of firearms and I rarely sell one. For the rare instance when I do, I long ago decided that my personal comfort level was best reached by selling on consignment and letting a professional FFL worry about vetting the buyer.
A pause for the COZ
New member
I also follow my same rules when buying a private party gun. You dont know were its been.
A bill of sale also gives you a date you took possession of said fire arm.
So if for some strange reason years latter. It comes back that the pistol you purchased in 2011 was used in a armed robbery in 2010.
Its no different than any other transaction if something comes up. He who has the best and most documentation wins or at least stays out of the mix.
I am never afraid of losing a great deal because the seller wont sell or buyer wont buy with out a bill of sale. If the deal is too good to be true. it most likely is.
I also note that whats on that paper is our agreement in full, nothing else is implied or offered. You would be surprised what people who you thought were honest will say you said you would do. " he said if my Mom did not like it I could bring it back and he would give my money back" looking at well used mower, heck I did!!!
A bill of sale also gives you a date you took possession of said fire arm.
So if for some strange reason years latter. It comes back that the pistol you purchased in 2011 was used in a armed robbery in 2010.
Its no different than any other transaction if something comes up. He who has the best and most documentation wins or at least stays out of the mix.
I am never afraid of losing a great deal because the seller wont sell or buyer wont buy with out a bill of sale. If the deal is too good to be true. it most likely is.
I also note that whats on that paper is our agreement in full, nothing else is implied or offered. You would be surprised what people who you thought were honest will say you said you would do. " he said if my Mom did not like it I could bring it back and he would give my money back" looking at well used mower, heck I did!!!
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A bill of sale also gives you a date you took possession of said fire arm.
So if for some strange reason years latter. It comes back that the pistol you purchased in 2011 was used in a armed robbery in 2010.
How hard is it to make up a fake bill of sale with a false name and date?
My experience as a deputy sheriff of 8 years has been that a bill of sale that is not witnessed and notarized means about as much as a used piece of toilet paper.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I always sell through an FFL. I might make a few extra bucks through a private sale. Luckily, that amount of money won't make a big difference to me.
A friend was on line at the gun show, selling a Sigma. Some dude comes up and says he will offer him an amount better than expected. He did the deal for cash and was all excited. Not I.
As a criminology meeting that discussed private sales, I heard that if a new gun is sold by the first owner the average time to crime (if it ends up in a crime) is about 10 years. However, if a gun is sold to a private individual and then sold again, it ends up in a crime in about 5 years.
A friend was on line at the gun show, selling a Sigma. Some dude comes up and says he will offer him an amount better than expected. He did the deal for cash and was all excited. Not I.
As a criminology meeting that discussed private sales, I heard that if a new gun is sold by the first owner the average time to crime (if it ends up in a crime) is about 10 years. However, if a gun is sold to a private individual and then sold again, it ends up in a crime in about 5 years.
A pause for the COZ
New member
How hard is it to make up a fake bill of sale with a false name and date?
My experience as a deputy sheriff of 8 years has been that a bill of sale that is not witnessed and notarized means about as much as a used piece of toilet paper.
I suppose so, But with two signatures and a date. Its better than a he said she said.
You would have to prove it was false and if it was, why it was false.
Are they under investigation for selling illegal fire arms?
I am not trying to help some one perform an illegal act. And I suspect providing a false bill of sale for a fire arm would be an illegal act.
But I get it, Have had issues about a misunderstanding and producing a Bill of sale solved the miss understanding with one person doing the right thing.
Also have ended up in court and a judge state it does not matter whats on the paper it matters what the person believed he was signing when he signed it. And what he was saying was a complete lie. Not just a little one ether.
Complete untruth... I found my self completely unprepared to prove his lie was a lie. I had signed paper that proved what I said. Figured that was all I needed... Wrong!!
I had to pay up $1500 and take back a used up machine that was used commercially for profit and was toast.
I just shook my head and said What??? Why sign paper if it does not matter.
But on a whole it is much more helpful than a hindrance.
Some times it does matter what side of the bed the Judge woke up on. The scales of justice do seem to have a sales pitch lever attached to them.
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