Primer failings

in my experience at least, seating flush and bottoming out are almost always the same thing. I'm not even sure that I could recognize or adjust for 0.002" below flush.
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I second that.
I tend to l seat by feel, check by a flat surface, and accept the results. This represents factory standards for both ammo and firearms and should work work in any properly functioning firearm.
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I second that as well.
To me, the term seating flush has always meant "put the primer face at or a fair's breadth below the case head."
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Seating flush means for the human eye no difference to seating a tad below flush. By Feeling you will not find a difference eighter.
Does not matter if it is perfectly flush or a tad below. Mechanical instruments like the press will never be that precise anyway.

You can uniform the primer pockets with an Military crimp remover to a certain extent. As well the Dillon Universal primer pocket uniformer tool is somewhat limited in it's functionality since it does not cut the edges of the primer pocket (ONLY the depth).

But this discussions is turning to another subject so lets stop argueing about flush or not since it is not of that much importance.
 
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Below from here;
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/

The real story is that Boxer primers leave the factory with the anvil higher than it would be when seated in a cartridge case. Seating so anvil legs touch the bottom of the pocket lets the anvil tip penetrate into the pellet of mix. The nearly universal recommendation of having the primer cup bottom 0.003 to 0.005 inch below flush with the case head exists to set the proper amount of priming mix between the cup and the anvil tip.

This critical distance is known as the bridge thickness. Establishing the optimum thickness through proper seating means the primer meets sensitivity specifications but does not create chemical instability. However, failing to set the bridge thickness through proper seating depth is the number one cause of primer failures to fire. The bridge thickness is too great with a high primer, even one whose anvil legs touch the bottom of the pocket.

I hope this helps you understand some of the more esoteric aspects of primers. They are amazing little gadgets, and few people fully realize the intricacies of their manufacture and use.

Read more: http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/#ixzz4a1znhYqi
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Thanks snuffy for sharing.

That theory is very interesting.

However most of us will agree that "just seating the primer right till the press arm stops" is science enough for the average "every day reloader".
Practicallity is in this case more important than any theoretical primer University lesson.

The primer has to practically work.

If it ain't working propperly with every "donkey" then what use is it?

Eighter the primer is made bad, or the priming implements are bad or the gun is bad. Eighter one of those.
 
The principle is correct. A prime will not ordinarily detonate from just squeezing it a bit, such as when seating. Concussion doesn't really do it either, you can drop or throw them, I tried popping them once smacking them on concrete with a slingshot.

Heat makes them blow, but they do what they should do. When the firing pin crushes the pellet between anvil and cup with a shock, the pellet explodes.

That's the intention of the anvil being high, and being pushed into the pellet as the cup bottoms out. All there is to it is compressing the pellet a bit. It's best to leave it loose until installed, I guess.

About the same as stuffy said.
 
I just loaded a bunch of 9mm Luger.

No way there can be done anything wrong seating the primers.

The press arm allways gives a positive stop when seated. Further is very hard to go and you will not be able overseat the primers unless you willfully with all force smack foreward the press handle.

The primers simply can not seated too much unless there is an Intention to do that.
 
Unless you screw up

I have to add a primer screw up I had last year. I messed up and loaded up 500 small rifle primer to my 45GAP cases. It was all range ammo but the harder rifle primer had a failure to ignite for about 10% of the ammo I have fired (about 400 rounds so far).

I first thought I had a bad batch of primers or I had not installed them correctly. I determined I had loaded the SR over the SP due to the color of the primers in the ammo. I also verified my inventory of primers and that confirmed I had used the wrong primer.
 
I'm counting six different cartridges, right? Maybe up to ten primer brands and sizes, ten or so different firearms, and every one of these combinations is giving you trouble?

I just don't even know how to address that.
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I received a phone call from a firing range, they were inquiring about; "What is wrong with R-P ammo?" and I responded with "The phone number is on the box, call them". The next thing I know is they are coming to see me; they had one box of 30/06 R-P new ammo with 5 cases that failed to fire with 15 cases that fired in a new Ruger rifle. The 5 that failed to fire had at least 5 opportunities to fire in at least 3 different rifles. SOOO! I measured the fail to fire cases in all directions and compared them with the 15 cases that fired, I was impressed. The fired cases when measured from the shoulder to the case head were withing.001" of the length of the filed to fire cases when measured from the shoulder to the case head. The primers were not protruding.

We measured the bullets and powder, there was no spread, I removed the primers, nothing loose and nothing fell out; I then installed the primers back into the same cases they were removed from and then chambered them one at a time in one of my M1917 rifles and fired them (one at a time), they did not bring the box the ammo came in, they did not bring the contact information for the proud owner of the rifle and ammo so the only conclusion I could draw was Remington did an outstanding job of loading the ammo and the primers had to be tuff to survive 5+ firing pin strikes before I hit them with my killer firing pins. The dents in the primers gave the appearance the primers had been crushed.

The 15 cases that fired did not indicated a the spring was not strong enough to resist to retain pressure. Al f the dents in the fired primers had a good healthy dent.

F. Guffey
 
White Collar said:
In the past year or so I have had a problem with Winchester, CCI, and Remington large and small primers not going off... I use the Dillon Square Deal as well as hand primers from RCBS and Lee. Same results. 9mm is the worst, but 45 large primers also give me problems...
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White Collar,

I had the same problem with my Square Deal B when I got it about 25 years ago. There turned out to be a defect in the handle casting such that the two halves of the mold weren't perfectly registered and there was some significant rubbing on the frame from this that ultimatel cracked the handl. Dillon replaced it as soon as I reported the problem, but it is something to check for; rub marks along the flashing seam of the handle.

Dillon intentionally reduces the leverage on the upstroke so you don't smash primers, but in my opinion, they over-do it a little. Even with the arm casting replaced on mine, it flat out would not seat tough primers. CCI used to be like that before they revamped their process in, I think, '92. The Tula and Wolf primers made in Russia today are like that, with burrs left on the lips of the cups from the sanding belt or whatever they use to trim to final cup height. The solution for me was to use Federal primers which seat easily and seem to be a bit more sensitive in their ignition. Federals were always favorites among fellows shooting revolvers with lightened springs for faster double-action shooting.

What surprised me, though, is that you have a problem with using the hand tools, too. That smacks of some other issue. One common mistake is folks using the obsolete benchrest practice of seating only until you feel the primer feet touch the bottom of the primer pocket. That is a mistake. The document Ireload linked to calls it reconsolidating the primer and this article calls it setting the bridge. The document Ireload linked to shows 0.002-0.006" reconsolidation from commercial entities, while the Naval Ordanance Station, Indian Head found primers preferring 0.002-0.004". This latter specification is more in line with what Federal recommends for it's primers, giving 0.002" as Ideal for their small primers, rifle or pistol, and 0.003" as ideal for their large primers.

Another cause of the mechanical seating problem you describe is primer pockets that are tight. Some brands, like IMI tend to be tighter than SAAMI spec by a little. But also, if you are using military cases, they have a crimp that needs to be removed. Some will let you seat without removing the crimp, but usually it is hard seating. The cure I use is the same for both. I use Dillon's primer pocket swaging tool. There are others out there to choose from, but even with pistol cases, I've found I've had to run some through the swager to get primers to seat properly in the Square Deal, and it helps for seating them with hand tools, too.
 
Lee Handpress and Lee Ram Prime experience with seating primers

Lee Handpress and Lee Ram Prime experience with seating primers

I just got my Lee Handpress.
The Lee Ram prime I had from before (2 of them).

With this press I am going to load 380 acp (Hornady) only since my Lyman T mag 2 turret press has it's turrets full of 9mm Luger (Hornady) and 357 mag (RCBS taper crimp) dies (3 of each).

I never could get to work reliably the Lee Ram Prime on the Lyman turret press. The primers tended to flip and something was catching allway activating the spring in the Ram Prime making jump the primers.

But with the Lee Handheld press the Lee Ram prime works flawless.

I just recommend the Lee handpress and ram prime as an good alternative for pistol/Revolver reloading. Looks like if you buy each item from the same brand they will work meanwhile with other brands they will not work.
 
Does anyone remember when primers had either flat or round bottoms, and you could get primer heads in both flat and rounded profiles, jus like getting seating dies to fit bullet profiles?
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Yes I do, I still have the seater plugs for the old primers with the domed heads. I have also worked with welch plugs, core hole plugs and freeze plugs.

F. Guffey
 
Looks like if you buy each item from the same brand they will work meanwhile with other brands they will not work.
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What-ever all of that means, I have primer systems of all colors; all of them work.

F. Guffey
 
The Lee Handpress Combined with the Lee Ram Prime System seats the primers with an positive stop. There is no way to "everseat" the primers.
There is allways a positive stop when seated fully.

So I do not see why the OP has primer Problems.

At least with the Lee Hardware described above it's not the hardwares fault.

I hope this thread was not a hoax of the OP (just to stirr up some reloading "Dogs") to laugh at the reloaders trying to figure out the Problem (were None is).
 
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