Primer failings

Primers are not seated right.

Firing pin hits them and they move, leave a dent.

Most are deep enough or seated right and it works.

Some are not and they do not work

You can restrike it all day long, the dimple is there and it will not smack it any more or fire it.

Pockets may not be clean but its the technique most likely that is not right.

No idea on the tool. I use an RCBS universal, seats them to sub -.003 or a bit better and never a problem.
 
I just looked up the Dillon Square thingy, now that is space agey if I ever saw it.

Keep in mind I am a single press kind of guy, all that whiz bang takes too much futzing with in my view to make it worth it. Again I am a cranky opinionated old fart so that does not mean they aren't fine for others. person.

Get a RCBS Universal hand primer tool, problem solved.
 
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Primers have to be seated FLUSH.

As in post #3 those for my opinion are to deep.

Does not bother if they stick out a bit.

I tell ya this to make sure the firing pin is hitting with force the primers.
Some of my workers shotgun does not hit the primers enough for reliable ignition. All factory ammo. The shotguns firing pin is a bit worn I believe. So make sure they are seated no deaper than FLUSH.
Even 0.001" matter on that shotgun (those rounds on post #3, if they were 12 ga, would not go of in that shotgun).
 
The guy of South America:
Primers have to be seated FLUSH.

As in post #3 those for my opinion are to deep.

Does not bother if they stick out a bit.

I tell ya this to make sure the firing pin is hitting with force the primers.
Some of my workers shotgun does not hit the primers enough for reliable ignition. All factory ammo. The shotguns firing pin is a bit worn I believe. So make sure they are seated no deaper than FLUSH.
Even 0.001" matter on that shotgun (those rounds on post #3, if they were 12 ga, would not go of in that shotgun).
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If you want to believe primers should be seated flush have at it. I have to disagree and here is why. At manufacture the anvil in a primer actually protrudes slightly above the cup. Here is an example of what I am getting at:
Anvil%20Position.png


Seating a primer till it bottoms out pushes the anvil up and against the primer cake. Anyone looking at primers new in the box should see what is clear in the picture. If not clearly visible a simple 10X magnifier should make it apparent where the anvil sits.

Accurate Shooter:
Here at the USAMU, we ensure our rifle primers generally run -0.003″ to -0.005″ below the case head. Maximum primer depth is -0.006″ and minimum is -0.002″. Upon inspection, any cases with high primers will be corrected before loading. Aside from improving ballistic uniformity, ensuring the primers have proper compression upon seating also helps reduce possible misfires. These can be caused by the firing pin’s expending part of its energy either seating the primer or having to deform the primer cup enough to reach the anvil.
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Hodgdon Reloading:
The ideal seating depth is just below flush. As you gain experience in loading, the feel to accomplish this will become familiar. It is best to use your finger to test every primed shell case. If the primer is above flush it can be run through the seating operation again to push it below flush.
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Those are just a few. Maybe you have a credible link as to seating flush? I have never heard of seating flush, you seat till the primer bottoms out and sets the anvil. That is my take anyway.

Ron
 
You are correct Reloadron,

However your Approach is another than mine.

You want to set the anvil onto the bottom of the primer pocket. That seem to be correct. That should be the case when the priming arm of my Lyman press is stopping.
My primers are all flush or even a Little high. I never overpress while priming out of fear to damage the primer. Till now (over 800 reloads) I never had a missfire (unless due to oily primers).

The shotgun I talked about does not indent much the primer if it missfires. That is the case when the factory 12 ga ammo has seated the primer below flush.
The firing pin simply does not reach the primer.
That was my Approach.

I believe primers are not that sensitive that thereover should be done an aguement.

Military will most probably seat the primer deep since it is less a risk of hitting out of chamber the round and the Thing goes of (accidents).
Most likely the Military as well has their guns made with an larger firing pin.

Primer seating: Flush is not wrong as is a tad below flush neighter. Sticking out is wrong (and dangerous).

Don't really know why People have Trouble with their primers not going of.

Addendum: I just measured my primer depth.
Seems to my press primes my 9mm Luger primers to 0.007" to 0.008" deep from flush.
 
You have a good point and enter another possible problem. I seat till they bottom out, a matter of feel. Now I understand if we push beyond when the primer bottoms out we can crack the little primer cake. So there is a too deep or too much. Just my thinking with slightly below flush. Getting sleepy so later and have a good one.

Ron
 
A quality primer pocket uniforming tool will clean the primer pocket remove carbon plus flatten and square the primer pocket to a uniform depth every time if you do your part. I have my tool mounted in a small drill motor, trying to clean primer pockets with a small hand tool using your hands to supply the twisting motion is not my idea of fun. Fast and easy, I can't remember when I purchased mine but it must be more than 30 years old and I can't remember when I had a FTF.. William
 
The only Thing I can imagine makes the primer fail/or powder fail is OIL IN THE INSIDE OF THE CASE OR PRIMER POCKET SO IT CONTAMINATES THE PRIMER/POWDER.
I had at early reloadings some squibs due to overlubricating the reloading dies and press. If you use liquid oil like for sewing machines in the first die then that puts some oil into the primer pocket and case.
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The old myth that oil can kill a primer has been disproved time and again. Primers can be soaked in oil, (submerged), then dried out and will still fire.

The shotgun I talked about does not indent much the primer if it missfires. That is the case when the factory 12 ga ammo has seated the primer below flush.
The firing pin simply does not reach the primer.
That was my Approach.
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Apples to oranges. Shotguns have an entirely different priming system. The primer cup is held in a battery cup with a separate anvil. The battery cup is what determines how deep the primer is seated. The opening in the shell head is formed to control how deep the primer sits.

Primer seating: Flush is not wrong as is a tad below flush neighter. Sticking out is wrong (and dangerous).

Don't really know why People have Trouble with their primers not going of.

Addendum: I just measured my primer depth.
Seems to my press primes my 9mm Luger primers to 0.007" to 0.008" deep from flush.
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YOU ARE WRONG! I don't know where you got the idea that primers were supposed to be flush with the case head!

Here we have a person that reclaims powder from shotgun shotgun shells by cutting them apart. Or removes powder from fireworks! To reload metallic ammo. I would consider the source and lack of experience before following any of his advice!
 
Dear snuffy,

dude, Sir;

I already corrected previously my primer seating depth info to this Quote
Addendum: I just measured my primer depth.
Seems to my press primes my 9mm Luger primers to 0.007" to 0.008" deep from flush.
Click to expand...

Practically I seat them till there is a Little resistance and the handle stops. I never had any primer failure as per se.

Oil contamination.
Yes Sir that is a fact in my own personal experiences. But wait, you maybe correct in saying the PRIMER is NOT affected by the oil. But most certainly IS affected the POWDER by the OIL.
I tested it at the beginning of my reloading life and the more oil the primer pocket seeps into the case where the powder is the more the POWDER get's contaminated. That creates first HANGFIRES, which is delayed Offset of the powder (a Micro second but still very noticeable).
It maybe the primer pers se is not affected by the oil but most certainly the powder yes is.

I wished I could send you, snuffy, an Video were all my Claims are proven in situ but for sure you will then tell me I have "edited" the Video to validate my Claims.
I efectively scavenge 12 ga shotshells for powder to reload my 9mm Luger, 357 Magnum (38 spl) and soon 380 acp. Were here in this Southamerican Country you could get gun powder legally? Would be the first to get some.
1 12 ga shotshell which has 25 grains gives 6 38 spl Nagant style rounds when loaded to 3.8 grains of powder (148 grain Wadcutter lead bullet) which give roughly 990 fps of velocity.
As well I scavenge rocket firecrackers for Black Powder (BP + 1 bomb powder) to reload my empty 12 ga Shells (they are all primed and have wads and can be reused as soon whatever powder is gotten).
Those I use only in old guns and for 12 ga and give 'em as a gift to my workers for hunting.

Sir, all my Claims are genuine (or do you find those Pictures I posted somewhere in the Internet?).
 
in my experience at least, seating flush and bottoming out are almost always the same thing. I'm not even sure that I could recognize or adjust for 0.002" below flush. I tend to l seat by feel, check by a flat surface, and accept the results. This represents factory standards for both ammo and firearms and should work work in any properly functioning firearm.

To me, the term seating flush has always meant "put the primer face at or a fair's breadth below the case head." For the simple goal of firing reliability with any properly adjusted firearms, I don't believe that you can do better.

I'm guessing that a normal firing pin for any gun will have about .05" of available punch, far more than necessary to accommodate both an out of spec case head and a primer that is too deep as well.
 
This is IMO absolutely correct
To me, the term seating flush has always meant "put the primer face at or a fair's breadth below the case head." For the simple goal of firing reliability with any properly adjusted firearms, I don't believe that you can do better.

I'm guessing that a normal firing pin for any gun will have about .05" of available punch, far more than necessary to accommodate both an out of spec case head and a primer that is too deep as well.
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I don't know what the OP did wrong or it was a bad Batch of primers.

Be glad if the OP would express himself a bit about the issue what he changed when the Problem started.
 
If the primer seating is an issue you need to remove the primer slide and check the primer punch to see if its damaged or jammed so that it is not protruding far enough through the shell plate to fully seat the primers. It could be wear to the punch or the spring. The punch could be jammed with grit or dirt.

Here is a diagram showing the part that is held in with a set screw on the primer slide. Cover the punch spring and cup with your hand so it doesn't fly off. Use an Allen wrench to remove the set screw the punch spring and cup will come off the slide. Check for dirt debris or damage and replace the screw, punch spring and cup tightening the screw so the punch holds in place.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/square-deal-automatic-priming-system-parts_8_43_25380.html
 
The thing that baffles me is that it seems to me that he has failures across the board.

You can't have a single problem and have such system wide failures, unless, as has been widely discussed, it is a big, big problem with priming and handling.

The very first thought I had was "this guy is talking poodle patties, nothing could be so messed up."

It would not be the first time that a story like this was told just to wind people up. It would be sort of like my brother, who switched my plug wires one night after I did a ton of work on my car. I spent most of the next day trying to find out what I did wrong. I wasn't expecting someone to do that, they worked fine when I was finished. He just wanted to watch and laugh as I swore and hollered for hours, checking and re-checking.
 
Does anyone remember when primers had either flat or round bottoms, and you could get primer heads in both flat and rounded profiles, jus like getting seating dies to fit bullet profiles?
 
Does anyone remember when primers had either flat or round bottoms, and you could get primer heads in both flat and rounded profiles, jus like getting seating dies to fit bullet profiles?
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Yes...as I remember large pistol primers had a round face and required a rounded punch, rifle primers were flat.
 
I second this
The very first thought I had was "this guy is talking poodle patties, nothing could be so messed up."

It would not be the first time that a story like this was told just to wind people up. ...
...He just wanted to watch and laugh as I swore and hollered for hours, checking and re-checking.
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I invite the OP to participate in this discussion as well.If the OP invented this Story please foreward to us that fact.

Seat the primers with an turret or single stage press, Change the brass , don't contaminate your primer and powder and buy a new Batch of primers.
That should eliminate your Problem.
 
It would be nice if we could avoid a spitting match.
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No pissing match, I just can't let wrong/bad info go unchallenged. A lot more people read this forum than those that contribute, just look at the numbers, 37 replies, 536 views. I bet there were some rookies/new reloaders looking for info that saw "primers should be seated flush". If they stopped reading right there that could result in them having FTF,(failure to fire). TGOSA should edit his post,remove the wrong info!!

TGOSA is also confused about the difference between a primer pocket uniformer, and a military crimp remover. A uniformer squares the bottom of the primer pocket, leaving the edge and sides unaffected. It MAY also deepen the pocket if it's too shallow. The military crimp remover simply cuts the top edge of the primer pocket ONLY!. Allowing the seating of a new primer by cutting a precise chamfer on that edge.
 
I agree with snuffy.

If the information is wrong it needs to be corrected.

We don't need wrong info in re-loading.

Urban legends are fine for around the campfire and scaring kids.
 
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