Price gouging handgun sales

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44Amp- if there is a perfect supply and demand situation, I think we agree- but pure capitalism rapidly devolves without regulation. The biggest fish buys out the little guys, forces them out of business, or conspires to fix prices to foil competition.

We end up with monopoly and the freedom to have a competing business is curtailed.

As for redonkulous prices for handguns I would think it’s approaching fair if the same gun shop is also purchasing used guns in great shape at a reasonable percentage of the price that shop is selling, regardless of how high above list that price is.

In other words, is it the market or an unfair practice?
 
Life is not fair. To expect otherwise is naive.

So long as I can walk away,no one but myself sets the price of what I am willing to pay.

I feel pretty much the same about minimum wages.I set the price I am willing to ply my trade for.Yet in dire times,I may work outside my trade for far less.

The task I perform at a job has a "value added" benefit to the business.If my value added does not exceed my cost of employement,the business cannot afford me. My skills and productivity as a burger flipper may not justify a "living wage"

But the student trying to pay gas and insurance on his pickup might find flipping burgers a good job.

If Acme Hardware wants $800 for a mil spec Rock Island 1911, he makes business good for Joes Gun Shop who is selling them for $600.

The only way anyone can sell you anything for any price is if you get your wallet out and say "I'll take it"

Only a few months ago,here on TFL someone complained about the "Trump Slump" which I assume means "No panic buying"
So the whine was slow sales. Hmmm. Must have been a good time to buy.

How has the price of beef been lately?

When the stock market dips, Darwin says some folks will think "Hmm,its on sale,I'll buy" and others will panic and sell low.

When the price goes back up,some will sell and take profit. Darwin notices some say,Look!! Dancing Bananna Enterprises has tripled!! I want some!!

Maybe around January 2021 shelves will be stocked with everything,at MSRP or discounted

Some will wisely buy what they need. Others will pass it by,with other priorities for the money.

When the next chaos and panic comes,they whine.

"I'm a victim. Its not fair. Lets go on Oprah and have a good cry and group hug!!. Here are the Kleenex,Dear!! There there now,I feel your pain.."

Snowflakes are destined to melt down.

I remember when the brand new list price for a 427 Shelby AC Cobra was about $8500.

If you had one in pristine shape in your barn,what would be a fair price?

IIRC my old 1967 Chevelle SS 396 sold new for about $2400 .

If I wanted $24,000 today for it,is that gouging?
 
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There's a difference between making a livable wage and 'taking advantage'.
Okay, define the difference...

Further, who decides what a "livable wage" is?
You?
Bureaucrats?
The majority?
The minority?

If a gun shop owner can pay his bills, feed his family, and put some money away for a rainy day, that is great.
How much is he allowed on bills?
How big of a family is he allowed?
Feed his family Ramen or Lobster?
Define a "rainy day"...
How much is he allowed to put away?

I do not want them to 'take advantage' of anyone.
Person A has an item to sell and sets a price
Person B wants the item and is wiling to pay asking price
Now explain how B was "taken advantage of" by A...








Well... :confused:








I'm waiting... :rolleyes:







Okay okay...
Ill let you off the hook on answering all of the above questions, if you answer just this one....














Are YOU willing to abide by the your own logic if it is these people who are making those choices for YOU?



















merlin-159394380-8ef29e27-ed5f-4b5a-b061-290b09989d59-article-Large.jpg
 
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As for a retailer taking advantage, of course they do - that is how they make money and stay in business.
There's a difference between making a livable wage and 'taking advantage'. If a gun shop owner can pay his bills, feed his family, and put some money away for a rainy day, that is great. I want them to be able to do all that. I do not want them to 'take advantage' of anyone.

What a crock; so how is he supposed to weather this storm of nothing to sell for an unknown length of time? How does he know what any possible new inventory will cost? he has to max his profits now to stay open later.
 
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FITASC wrote: And state laws regarding gouging are wrong as well.
Yours and the video are just opinions on the subject. However your video also shows that 34 states have anti-gouging statutes on the books (68% of them). In those 34 states your opinions do not matter; the black letter of the law does. Thanks for making my point:
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Your state law determines what is "GOUGING".
And I happen to live in one of those 34 and the scenario presented in the OP IS in fact gouging in my state according to the PENAL Code. Specifically CPC 396.

Still doesn't make it right or economically sound; states pass all types of laws that are wrong - 30K plus gun laws make my point.

If you watched and understood the video, you would get it..........

Amazing how many people do not understand basic economics, retail business models, or how things work
 
FITASC wrote: If you watched and understood the video, you would get it..........

Amazing how many people do not understand basic economics, retail business models, or how things work

Actually I do on all accounts. Also look at the states that have those laws on their books and the propensity for natural disaters i.e. floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, etc. There is a reason that over 2/3's of the states have these laws on the books. Don't conflate gun laws (I'm in one of THE most regulated states) with charging $20 a pint for a bottle of water.

How does he know what any possible new inventory will cost? he has to max his profits now to stay open later.

The cost of new inventory is a defacto defense to the new higher prices. Bring the receipts and not only do you have a defense but also a challenge for court costs.
 
As has been stated already, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Not to long ago ar’s could be purchased for $500, now I’m seeing them for $850 or $1000+ depending on the make/model. When I was researching ar’s I was fully prepared to pay $850 for the S&W m&p sport II that I saw on gunbroker, not to mention the shipping and ffl fees on top. But, my local sporting goods store had them for $699 + tax, so I ended up saving money.

My point is that I didn’t like the idea of paying $850+ for an ar, but I was willing to anyway for my own security and peace of mind. Likewise, I don’t like that ammo prices are going up but I will pay the extra cost so that I have some on hand.
 
I live in central Texas. I was checking out online at the CZ USA website,where the CZ 75 D PCR 9mm pistol, listed MSRP as $617. I check several local retailers in my county, and discovered that they all had the same gun, selling for over $1200! Is this price gouging happening in your locale? :confused::mad:

Tooele Shooting Supply has one for $559 on their website right now...
 
the scenario presented in the OP IS in fact gouging in my state according to the PENAL Code. Specifically CPC 396.

California is the only state I know of that has that specific statute, and even then, it only applies during a declared state of emergency.

(That particular law forbids raising prices more than 10%. I can see where that would be a very real problem if the replacement cost for the retailer goes up more than 10%. In that case, I'd imagine they just don't order product, which would make shortages worse.)

In the other states with "price gouging" laws, only "essential" goods are affected.
 
Florida has the same thing during emergencies; EXCEPT, after Michael, the folks in Tallahassee allowed all of the refugees who lost everything to be kicked out of their $79/night hotel rooms for several days because it was FSU's homecoming and the hotels wanted to get their $500/night rate for that game. But that wasn't gouging, nor is it when they have graduation and the rates are jacked like that as well.
I had emergency relief workers sleeping on my living room floor because of that BS.

But, if you watch that video I linked, it is explained WHY it is not only NOT gouging, but how it actually helps folks the most.

I know most here who think folks are gouging them will seem to have NO issue making a huge profit when they sell a used car, their house or anything else.

It is called Capitalism and the law of Capitalism is Supply and Demand. The LAST thing we need is more Government interference. I remember when Katrina hit; by the time FEMA removed its head from a dark nether region, Walmart, Publix and other companies already had truckloads of supplies there.

As to a living wage? Seriously? That sounds like someone fighting for a raise in the minimum wage. Who gets to decide what that is? Do you know what his living expenses are? My brother makes more than I did when I was working - but he has 3 kids in college and a fourth in private school, school loans and a huge mortgage - I have none of that - does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to make as much?
Stop thinking like Communists and embrace our economic system - those gun stores need to charge what they do to survive these turbulent times
As has been stated, if YOU do not want to pay their price, please step out of line so the person behind you who does can buy what they need - THAT is how this works, AND prevents hoarders who already have too much from preventing folks who have none from getting some and who are willing to pay that asking price.
 
This idea that unbridled capitalism is a viable system only thrives because people do not bother to learn from the past. Each regulation and restriction was the result of A PROBLEM that was being addressed and a solution was passed in to law by our (in my case) American democratic system.

It’s true that times change and situations evolve and laws must adapt, but promoting the idea that no regulations at all is the solution is anarchy.

Calling things “communist” shows a real lack of understanding of the concept of communism: for example, why should I buy an overpriced handgun when I can just go to the local dispensary and check out a nice Tokarev and a stack of ammo to use for as long as I need for free? Why buy dies and progressive press when I can just go to the local sports center and use theirs whenever I feel like making ammo? Why should I have to pay for my own helicopter when we can all toss money in the hat and build roads and bridges for everyone to use for free? What should old people be sleeping in the streets if they are not lucky enough to have an excellent family and the good luck to acquire wealth? Lots of people work very hard but don’t strike it rich. We could all throw some money in the hat when we are young and when we are old have a retirement safety net.

The concept that American capitalism is in any way “free market” is patently absurd. We have regulations not because people sit around thinking up laws to pass but because abuses occur and society decides as best it can on regulations to address those abuses.

Someone overcharging on a CZ pistol is minor. What if, I dunno- how about Bass Pro Shops starts buying out or harassing every gun shop and ffl transfer agent in your area and any retailer or club that attempts to sell ammo? What if they undercut prices temporarily to drive competitors out of business, then slowly raise prices as high as they please just because they have wiped out the competition? That’s capitalism too- blame the little guy for not having the economic clout to compete against a national chain willing to destroy him simply to maintain pricing power without competition.

Some people simply don’t get it. Who decides all this stuff? It’s simple: society does. People who vote should have more influence and people who are wealthy enough to donate lots of money to influence the system should have less, but that’s not how things are right now. Things will change, they always do.
 
Someone just outed themselves ;)


But this little gem of naïveté stood out...

Each regulation and restriction was the result of A PROBLEM that was being addressed and a solution was passed in to law

...indicating someone hasn’t been paying attention.
 
Name one single regulation that has been enacted that was not enacted to address a problem. Just one counterexample will prove me wrong.
 
Why is it that people get all bent out of shape if I decide to sell a $600 pistol for $859 but no one gives a snit if I want to sell my $800 Laze-boy chair for $1200??

There are ALWAYS alternative choices. They may not be what you desire, they may not be pleasant, or easy, but there are always alternatives.
 
If you accept that doing without is always an alternative...

See Martin Shkreli, sentenced to 7 years in Federal Prison and fined 7.4 million dollars.

What did he do? He lead a company to buy up all manufacturing and marketing rights to Thiola and Chenodal, drugs used to treat a rare disease Cystinuria. Since he had raised a vast amount of capital to obtain a complete monopoly on these drugs and was the ONLY supply, he raised the price from $1.50 a pill to $20 a pill (thiola), simply because he could. Based on maneuvers to obtain a complete monopoly on a necessary drug for a rare and serious disease.

Other than moving to Europe, the alternative was pay the new price or not treat the disease... which would mean dealing with the chronic pain of abnormal and consistent kidney stones. If you have ever had ONE, you know how much pain that is.

After Shkreli was removed as CEO, his company introduced a new compounded drug and dropped the outrageous price substantially.

Now, if someone has a small stock of CZs and wants to charge whatever for them, I don't care. I am a CZ fan, by the way. There are plenty of alternatives. My CZ .22 rifle is already worth more than I paid for it new, and I don't mind that people spend outrageous money on rare Gibson guitars either. Doing without a curly maple Les Paul never hurt anyone and as nice as it is, there are plenty of .22 rifles out there for substantially less money. And plenty that cost much more, too.

This is not always the case, though.
 
Name one single regulation that has been enacted that was not enacted to address a problem. Just one counterexample will prove me wrong.

99% of regulation is anti-capitalist in nature. It is supported by the market leaders in the very industries being regulated in order to force out smaller businesses that can’t afford to absorb the regulatory costs in lawyers and lobbyists.
 
Why is it that people get all bent out of shape if I decide to sell a $600 pistol for $859 but no one gives a snit if I want to sell my $800 Laze-boy chair for $1200??

I don't see anyone gettin' bent out of shape over the price of anything. What I do see is folks gettin' bent all outta shape trying to justify the doubling of the MSRP of a handgun during a time when some folks truly believe they need one.

There are ALWAYS alternative choices. They may not be what you desire, they may not be pleasant, or easy, but there are always alternatives.

The thing is, sometimes there isn't a alternative besides going without. Charging $8 for a hamburger when one can go down the street and get one for $4, is not gouging, but charging $25 for one when there is none around anywhere is. Do you pay or go without(the "always" alternative) and maybe you or your kids starve? Is it capitalism? Of course it is, no one here is denying it. Kinda like insulin. Pharmaceutical companies in this country rape folks because they need insulin or they die. No alternative. Their price gouging is easy and it's legal. Don't mean it's ethical. Just greed. That's what gouging is, it's just greed mixed with poor ethics.
 
During my own harder times I have fed my family dead animals I picked up off the road. Fresh enough to not be stiff.
We could not afford McDonalds. I'm not a street beggar.

The 1911 I'm currently depending on I built with a $60 GI slide,a gift Vietnam era chrome lined GI barrel,and a Rock Island frame.
OK,I did fit it up nicely,it has a Trijicon front sight,and the rest of the parts are Cylinder and slide,Brown,Wilson,or Colt. And it has good magazines.

And I built it over time.

Maybe it was Stephan Covey? There is a time management matrix.

It scores Urgency vs Importance ,from "Not Urgent/Not Important through Urgent/Not important or Not Urgent/Important. Urgent /Important forces operating in crisis mode.

A business meeting urgent customer demands might have to pay overtime Urgency costs money.

Checking your oil might be not urgent/ important till the oil light comes on as you are tooling down the interstate.

The time to buy a SD handgun and ammo is well before you need it.It does not come with proficiency.

Well ahead of time,as a mature and thoughtful human adult,you recognise the need to be able to take care of yourself.

You allocate resources to fulfill that need. Likely,as a TFL member,you have a gun and some ammo.

If you do nothing till there is rioting in the streets,panic,etc, I'm sorry,but I just cant find much empathy for you if you can't find the latest gun article gun you are lusting for.
Buy your fire extinguisher before you need it.

"You can't always get what you want,but if you try,you might get what you need"

I shrug and stay home during the panics. I have wheel weights. I have brass,powder,primers.

And mostly I have the good sense to avoid trouble.

On capitalism vs regulation.....Many of the regulations that prevent capitalism from finding free market stability came via lobbyist bribing,by one method or another,members of Congress,who invest heavily,then behind closed doors,pick winners and losers. Thats how they become multi millionairs on a Congressman's salary.

Aside from useless whining,please tell me what process of "regulation" would you put in place to assure product availability,ALWAYS on the shelf,at any store that wants to stock,at the same stable price at each store.

How you do that? And,how do you "regulate" the shop who would lower its price to attract business?

In other words,would you "Regulate"competition out of the market??

I'll tell who will lose big time on that one.

We will.

Do you drive a Yugo?

On jacking up prices during a crisis over greed,like for water or insulin....Thats disgraceful.

In most cases a business must think of prospering long term. To do that,they must depend on a customer base.

Short term,you may be able to screw desperate people. But alienating your customer base will not serve greed long term.

Dick's Sporting Goods didn't gouge out of greed. They chose to discontinue some product.

And they alienated some customer base.

Football,baseball,basketball, will all go through losing some customer base.

I can forgive my LGS for having to charge $38 for a pound of Varget,I might be grateful he has it in stock,after the hoarder/resellers have cleared the shelves of $28 a pound Varget.

Might my emotions want to regulate the hoarder/resellers? Sometimes...but I cannot think of a way to do that without compromising Freedom.

No system is perfect.

I can refuse to buy from hoarder/resellers. I await their estate sale.
 
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