Price gouging handgun sales

[dogtown tom]

buck460XVR

Quote:
Good grief it ain't price gouging....its called capitalism.

....actually, IMHO, it's both.

When YOU can't afford the price or are unwilling to pay its gouging.
Oddly, buyers don't go whining when a seller prices his product below market price. Its just as simple as "don't like the price, go buy somewhere else".

I doubt in the case the OP gives that the wholesaler has doubled their prices($600) to the retailer. In the OPs scenario, it's clearly gouging and a retailer taking advantage of the climate and the availability of handguns right now. I have no problem with a dealer having to raise their price accordingly when their costs go up. I have no problem with a dealer raising prices because demand is clearing his shelves and he has no idea of when he might be able to replace them. But, during this and other previous panic shortages with guns/ammo/reloading components, there are many obvious examples of gouging. The OP's s clearly one of them. Manufacturers do not sell their products to distributors for over advertised MSRP.

Again, we have someone who has little experience with a retail business and never dealt with retail supply chains.
Whether the wholesale price has increased or not, DEMAND HAS.

Ever hear of the law of supply and demand?

That scarcity means the gun dealer isn't able to reorder as usual and may not get resupplied for months if not years. So he has a choice.....sell at his regular price or raise his prices to what the market will bear. You see this as gouging and unethical. That retailer sees it as a means to keeping his doors open. He'll go from selling twenty guns a day to selling none......because the distributors ARE OUT OF STOCK. It matters not one bit what price the distributor shows if none are in stock.

If you have a hundred guns in your display case do you sell them for 5% over cost? Understand 5% is the typical margin on new guns. You'll be sold out within a few days because of the demand. You'll be unable to reorder for months because distributors are out of stock.

OR

Do you increase your retail price to meet the market demand, knowing that once those one hundred are gone you won't be getting restocked for months, if that soon.

Everyone loves to bag on Cheaper Than Dirt, but they are still in business when hundreds of other gun stores failed. I despise them for other reasons but not for price gouging. No one forces you to buy from anyone. If you can find it cheaper somewhere else well then bucko.....GO BUY IT THERE!

Those being "taken advantage of" by high prices? Well maybe you should have paid attention to the state of the gun and ammunition market the last fifteen years.

2020 should not have surprised anyone.

 

[HiBC]

One way or another, some folks see themselves as (potential) victims,with the idea they have been "done to"
Others see themselves as choice makers,and they own their choices.

At times,none of the available choices are attractive,but there are still choices.

Timing plays a role. Some say "luck" is being prepared for opportunity.

There ARE wannabe middleman hoarder/gougers. The folks who buy out all inventory on the shelves,triple the price,and haul it to gunshows.

Opportunistic day traders. I won't buy from them,and I hope their inventory soon becomes available at their estate sale. I can take advantage of the widow.

I remember dirt bags,I don't give them business.

I cut my LGS some slack. There is a balance. There are only so many ways my LGS can have inventory on the shelf. One is higher prices.

In the short term,the gouger makes a few bucks. In the long term,I remember,and I decide where I spend.

 

[TBM900]

I think I will wait, until some sort of sanity and normalcy returns, to even think about buying another gun.

Why
There are plenty of great deal to be had if you look
The weekend before last i found a new in box P7M8 for $1550
And last week I found what appears to be an unfired vintage Ruger Model 44 DeerStalker for $500

On the other hand, never mind... there are no deals to be had
Stop looking, if I find anything Ill let you know

 

[buck460XVR]

Again, we have someone who has little experience with a retail business and never dealt with retail supply chains.
Whether the wholesale price has increased or not, DEMAND HAS.

Ever hear of the law of supply and demand?



Those being "taken advantage of" by high prices? Well maybe you should have paid attention to the state of the gun and ammunition market the last fifteen years.

2020 should not have surprised anyone.

Again, clearly we have someone who thinks thier word is Gospel, and altho they may be in retail. clearly are not the defining word in it, and may be oblivious to what goes on in the real world. Someone who is quick to belittle even tho their expertise is short.

Sorry Tom, but most all of us here learned about supply and demand/Capitalism in Freshman Civics. Most of us here HAVE been paying attention to the state of the gun and ammunition market the last 15 years. None of us are surprised, but most all of us can recognize price gouging when we see it.

Maybe you are just ignorant of the definition of price gouging.

Price gouging may be charged when a supplier of essential goods or services sharply raises the prices asked in anticipation of or during a civil emergency or when it cancels or dishonors contracts in order to take advantage of an increase in prices related to such an emergency.

 

[Onward Allusion]

^^^
If we're using the above definition, then what's been happening to guns & ammo is definitely price gouging. How many States have deemed Guns & Ammo as Essential Services??? LOL, even this permanently blue State of ILL declared gun stores as essential business!

 

[gaseousclay]

I cut my LGS some slack. There is a balance. There are only so many ways my LGS can have inventory on the shelf. One is higher prices.

This pretty much sums it up. Since consumers are buying up supply, the only way to prevent continued hoarding is to raise prices, or even limit purchase quantities. This isn't always going to work since those with expendable incomes will still be able to buy ammo and guns at inflated prices. I see price increases as a necessary evil.

 

[dogtown tom]

buck460XVR

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post


Again, we have someone who has little experience with a retail business and never dealt with retail supply chains.
Whether the wholesale price has increased or not, DEMAND HAS.

Ever hear of the law of supply and demand?

Those being "taken advantage of" by high prices? Well maybe you should have paid attention to the state of the gun and ammunition market the last fifteen years.

2020 should not have surprised anyone.

Again, clearly we have someone who thinks thier word is Gospel, and altho they may be in retail. clearly are not the defining word in it, and may be oblivious to what goes on in the real world. Someone who is quick to belittle even tho their expertise is short.

If you feel belittled I apologise.
I don't think my word is Gospel, but it sure as heck is more accurate than much of the nonsense in this thread.

Sorry Tom, but most all of us here learned about supply and demand/Capitalism in Freshman Civics.

It doesn't show.

Most of us here HAVE been paying attention to the state of the gun and ammunition market the last 15 years. None of us are surprised, but most all of us can recognize price gouging when we see it.

No, you don't.

Maybe you are just ignorant of the definition of price gouging.

Quote:

Methinks you haven't read that definition.
Lets break it down........

Price gouging may be charged when a supplier of essential goods or services sharply raises the prices asked in anticipation of or during a civil emergency or when it cancels or dishonors contracts in order to take advantage of an increase in prices related to such an emergency.

While gun shops were recently deemed "essential businesses" in some states, state law determines when a product is essential and typically thats just been food and water. Even here in Texas during a hurricane, successful prosecutions are virtually nonexistent. Think why that may be.

I tell you what, I'll buy all of your 9mm for $9/box of 50.
-If your concern is gouging, then put your product out for purchase at what I consider a fair price.
-If you refuse, you are a gouger.
-Any concern you have for resupply isn't my concern, sell it to me now for $9....all of it.
-Wait, what? You paid $11 a box a year ago? I don't care, you are obligated in the spirit of Karl Marx to provide for those unwilling to plan, prepare or provide for themselves.
-Email me a list of your firearms and I'll offer you a price I decide is fair. I don't care if you can replace those guns but I'll be the one deciding if you are gouging or not.
-"But, but, but my property!" means nothing to me. You refusing to sell is proof that you are holding out for more $$$$$$.


Do ya get it? If you truly value capitalism, the free market and the right of a property owner to decide how many $$$$ it will take to part with his property...... you'll never call someone a "gouger" again.

If ya don't like the price shop elsewhere. Period.
It ain't your gun/food/water/ammo, so you have zero right to tell anyone what is "fair".

Business A prices Item 1 at $100 each.
Businesses B prices Item 1 at $50 each.
Businesses C, D, E & F price that identical Item 1 at $20 each.

Who makes a profit?
Who sells the most?
Who sells the least?
Who is in business this time next year?
If its not "an emergency" are A&B "gouging?

No one can answer those questions because you don't know what wholesale price was paid, whether the item is being sold below cost or whether sales are needed to remain in business.

Sadly, you and others would assume Business A and Business B are gouging. It may not be true.

 

[FITASC]

During the great .22LR shortage of a few years ago I was looking at a shelf filled with bulk packages of .22LR for $15 a package. I dithered a bit and then took a box. As I moved on a guy who had been (politely) waiting behind me swept all the bulk boxes off the shelf into his cart. THAT'S what causes the ammo shortages.

And that is the problem; had that store jacked prices up to demand levels, say $50/brick, do you think he would have taken them all? Nope, he would have left them there for someone else.

 

[FITASC]

Quote:
Good grief it ain't price gouging....its called capitalism.
....actually, IMHO, it's both. I doubt in the case the OP gives that the wholesaler has doubled their prices($600) to the retailer. In the OPs scenario, it's clearly gouging and a retailer taking advantage of the climate and the availability of handguns right now. I have no problem with a dealer having to raise their price accordingly when their costs go up. I have no problem with a dealer raising prices because demand is clearing his shelves and he has no idea of when he might be able to replace them. But, during this and other previous panic shortages with guns/ammo/reloading components, there are many obvious examples of gouging. The OP's s clearly one of them. Manufacturers do not sell their products to distributors for over advertised MSRP.

NO, it is NOT gouging. Don't like the price, don't buy it. I don't like paying $8/lb for chuck roast; I do not buy it or I wait until it goes on sale - same for guns and ammo.

As for a retailer taking advantage, of course they do - that is how they make money and stay in business. Look at ANY retail item - clothes, I-phones, Christmas items, home electronics, or anything else - retailers start out high hoping to score as much as possible early on because they know prices will come down and so will the profit margin.

 

[dogtown tom]

Gouging? I'll show you gouging!!!

McDonalds only charges $1.29 for a cheeseburger.
Five Guys wants $8.85 for a cheeseburger. Obviously they are gouging during supper time.

I'm calling the Governor tomorrow morning.

 

[SHR970]

Your state law determines what is "GOUGING". And for the "gouger" selling across state lines does not necessarily negate those laws.

 

[FITASC]

And state laws regarding gouging are wrong as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9QEkw6_O6w

It doesn't matter whether it is guns or butter, plywood or generators, hamburgers or bananas

 

[allenomics]

Yes. Prices for pistols and rifles have never been higher in Central Florida. A S&W Sporter II was $549 pre-pandemic. Now $899. S&W M&P15 MOE SL .223/5.56 AR-15 is selling for $1,259, but was $599 pre-pandemic. That's above MSRP! All firearms are sold at sticker price - no discounting. Many buyers paying premium prices are new to firearms. Inventory at a very large vendor (Shoot Straight) is also low.

 

[Ignition Override]

A gun shop owner near Jackson TN could not sell certain handguns because customers (who had never planned ahead) could not find the required ammo anywhere.

Are some gun stores closing their doors because of too little ammo availability?

.32 Auto ammo has been available in every store I've visited over the last two weeks.
Far better than carrying a can of mace.

 

[Mike38]

As for a retailer taking advantage, of course they do - that is how they make money and stay in business.

There's a difference between making a livable wage and 'taking advantage'. If a gun shop owner can pay his bills, feed his family, and put some money away for a rainy day, that is great. I want them to be able to do all that. I do not want them to 'take advantage' of anyone.

 

[HiBC]

I don't know where thoughts are going with this. Are we talking government price controls on firearms and ammunition? I'm opposed.

Free market capitalism may have its flaws,but IMO,its the best system known.

I was recently prescribed a 10 ml dose of liquid ear drops. 10 ml of mostly water. It was a jaw dropper that my co-pay was $275.

Then the eye doctor said I had borderline glaucoma. He prescribed drops. This time 5 ml was $300. out of my wallet.

Gouging?

I have an idea. I object to folks clearing the stock off dealer shelves to hoard or resale.

Thats easy.

But what I do not have is a good solution in the short term.

In the long term,as I mentioned,I hope to enjoy the estate sale.

Please ,if you are going to bellyache,propose a solution that does not damage freedom

 

[aarondhgraham]

It's price gouging!

One may try to justify it by saying it's part of Capitalism,,,
But it's still price gouging,,,
And it's wrong.

Aarond

.

 

[44 AMP]

But it's still price gouging,,,
And it's wrong.

How is it wrong to have the owner of something decide what they will sell it for??

It might not be fair, but I don't see it as wrong.

 

[ghbucky]

There's a difference between making a livable wage and 'taking advantage'.

Oh my, now we are going down the rathole of 'livable wage'. Who sets that? You, the government? Who gets to provide input in the decision?

What if I said that you have more than the prescribed 'reasonable amount' of guns, and you have to surrender the excess?

 

[SHR970]

FITASC wrote: And state laws regarding gouging are wrong as well.

Yours and the video are just opinions on the subject. However your video also shows that 34 states have anti-gouging statutes on the books (68% of them). In those 34 states your opinions do not matter; the black letter of the law does. Thanks for making my point:

Your state law determines what is "GOUGING".

And I happen to live in one of those 34 and the scenario presented in the OP IS in fact gouging in my state according to the PENAL Code. Specifically CPC 396.