Prepare yourselves....here it comes

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Making sure that prosperity trickles down to those who don't own stocks, maybe?

Again, is it governments responsibility/duty to provide citizens with "prosperity"? Or is it their duty to ensure the opportunity to pursue it? There are plenty of opportunities to achieve financial success in this country without government being involved. What you are alluding to is socialism.

Ever heard of underemployment? I know people with engineering and CS degrees working at Target or waiting tables. Unemployment numbers don't tell the whole story.

As another poster already took you to task for this, I will only reiterate briefly. Where is it in the Constitution that the Federal government has a responsibility to ensure each individual gets to work in their chosen profession? Isn't that dictated by the economy and the "invisible hand"? For someone who advocates socialist tenets so often, you really should stop flip-flopping. It's giving me flashbacks to the 2004 Presidential race...

Trying to break our dependence on foreign oil in the first place? Reducing our fossil fuel usage? Nothing brings prices down faster than reducing demand.

I will address your anemic bail-out on this issue momentarily.

Not reducing taxes at the expense of the budget? Attempting to reign in our debt? That's great your taxes are low, I don't want my children to have to foot the bill.

Reducing taxes has increased revenues. I understand that advocates of socialism find this difficult to grasp, but it is true. Overspending revenues is what creates deficit spending. Do you really believe that Democrats, the tax-and-spend queens, would have done any better? If so, I have some oceanfront property here you might be interested in...

Reducing spending (or raising taxes) so that the two actually meet?

Now you're getting it. Except for the raising of taxes part.

I'm a fan of surpluses. Or at least much smaller deficits. We used to have the former. That ended sometime between Bush taking office and 9/11.

Come up for air sometime and understand that there were no surplusses under Clinton. Only projected ones. What Bush inherited was a sagging economy teetering on the brink of recession from the Clinton administration due to the loose regulatory policies overseen by none other than Bubba himself. Policies that allowed things like Global Crossing, Enron and a multitude of other securities frauds that scammed Americans out of untold billions. But I guess when you have a wife with such a fine history with cattle-futures, it's simply too much to ask for a little oversight of huge conglomerates.

(except the 2nd, of course...they always do forget about that one).

The Democrats never cease in their assault on the rights of firearm owners save for political expediency. I can link you to a post listing many of Clintons gun grabbing antics that should make your hair curl. Now, please provide me with the anti-RKBA agenda offered under the Republicans since 2000. You might want to start with Attorney General Ashcroft's letter to the NRA.

It could mean taking the 150K people in Iraq and putting them in Afghanistan, scouring those caves, and finding Osama. Of course, it's probably too late for that now.

Do you believe Afghanistan is where he is? Is Pakistan out of the question? Do you believe that his death would put a larger dent in terrorism directed against the United States and her allies than establishing a moderate government smack dab in the middle of the Middle East? I positively can't grasp why you aren't a general or at least field grade officer...personally, I am preferential to having a base of operation tidily close to Iran right about now. Something I am certain the Bush administration considered early on.

Finding a way to thwart terror attacks without using our servicemen and women as bomb bait? I'm not a fan of that plan, as I'm one of the ones to be used as bait. Or do you not realize that they're blowing our faces (and legs, and arms) off too?

What is the Democrat plan to accomplish all of this "thwarting"? Deploying over-the-horizon to Okinawa? Would you feel safer and more effective there? I'm hoping you have a copy of Kerry's plan (still waiting on that one) or the current one being offered my the Democrat majority in Congress. I just hope it doesn't involve scissors and sneakers (cut-and-run). Ever hear of something called "winning"? How about bringing our troops home victorious? Do you have a plan? What is it?

but if there is no position for him in his field that is a sign that our economy is not necessarily doing as well as the unemployment numbers would suggest

Then where is it the governments responsibility to ensure he be able to obtain employment in his chosen field? Should the government offer to retrain him at taxpayer expense? I have to imagine you are a big supporter of Amtrak.

I voted for a governor who has dramatically expanded my state's wind power resources. I can't currently afford solar panels (and I rent anyway), but I plan to have them installed when I buy my first home. I drive a fairly fuel efficient vehicle, and take public transit whenever I can (living in a college town, this is often). 90% of the light bulbs in my house are CFL's rather than incandescent, and I've also used a couple old power strips I have laying around to keep wall warts and standby electronics from wasting power. I use programmable thermostats to regulate my heat usage and use less energy. Still not perfect, but I try to do my part.

Told you I'd get back to this. I guess you are referring to Janet Napolitano. The governor best known for doing absolutely nothing for the state except for refusing steadfastly to refuse to put the National Guard on the border in spite of her having declared a state of emergency. "Wind power" is a joke. Where was she on the Kinder-Morgan pipeline break besides being absolutely incompetent? Why has she vehemently opposed the building of even 1 refinery as proposed in Yuma to reduce fuel costs in the state? Go tell it on the mountain, because I live here. You might believe 'your' lesbian bull-dyke governor is doing a great job, but energy isn't her fine point. And all of your 'electric' contributions are a joke. Where do APS and SRP get their electricity from? Natural gas. Coal. Nuclear from Palo Verde. So, how does over half of what you are claiming even figure into the discussion? Why aren't you driving a fashionable hybrid? And do you know that the majority of the operating costs on that bus you ride are subsidized by taxpayer dollars? Bet you can't wait to ride the light rail on Central...While we're at it, would you care to expound on her gun-rights record? You know, where she has opposed EVERY pro-firearm bill and vetoed all that came before her? Well, until this election year...but with your help, she is free to be "herself" once more for four more years. Talk about tilting at windmills...you REALLY need to bail on this thread while you're behind. Bush and the Republicans aren't your worst enemy.

You know who has the power to "encourage" people to make lifestyle changes, even when they don't particularly want to? The government.

Spoken like a true socialist.

If you can't tell, I'm no libertarian.

I believe we have established that. ;)
 
BTW, "wild alaska" insulter, your post was reported. I've gotten pretty tired of your personal flames and insults and total lack of desire to have adult debate with specifics. Fella, you don't even RESPOND to what I said, you just issued personal attacks.

Tough to have "adult" debate where the basic "fact" to be debated has about as much connection to reality as the moon being made of green cheese.

I dont debate folks who raise flat earth theories either. :D

Wildandyoucanreportthisposttoo"fella"Alaska
 
I'll just respond to a couple points, since I think on the rest we're unlikely to see eye to eye....

As another poster already took you to task for this, I will only reiterate briefly. Where is it in the Constitution that the Federal government has a responsibility to ensure each individual gets to work in their chosen profession? Isn't that dictated by the economy and the "invisible hand"? For someone who advocates socialist tenets so often, you really should stop flip-flopping. It's giving me flashbacks to the 2004 Presidential race...

I never said it was the government's job to provide somebody a job in their chosen field, in either of my posts. Just that underemployment is a sign that, even with low unemployment, that the economy might not be doing as well as it seems.

And yes, I do very much lean socialist much of the time...I don't think I've ever tried to deny that.

The Democrats never cease in their assault on the rights of firearm owners save for political expediency. I can link you to a post listing many of Clintons gun grabbing antics that should make your hair curl. Now, please provide me with the anti-RKBA agenda offered under the Republicans since 2000. You might want to start with Attorney General Ashcroft's letter to the NRA.

Never said the Republicans had an anti-RKBA agenda...I was admitting that the Democrats put our 2nd amendment rights at risk (as opposed to "the rest" under Republican rule for the last few years). It's the one part of the Democrat platform I'm vehemently opposed to.

Do you believe Afghanistan is where he is? Is Pakistan out of the question? Do you believe that his death would put a larger dent in terrorism directed against the United States and her allies than establishing a moderate government smack dab in the middle of the Middle East? I positively can't grasp why you aren't a general or at least field grade officer...personally, I am preferential to having a base of operation tidily close to Iran right about now. Something I am certain the Bush administration considered early on.

So, how's that moderate government coming along? More on that later. Also, I think Iraq would make a pretty crappy base of operations, considering the conditions there and how much of our military is required to secure the country. Then again, you're right...I'm no general.

What is the Democrat plan to accomplish all of this "thwarting"? Deploying over-the-horizon to Okinawa? Would you feel safer and more effective there? I'm hoping you have a copy of Kerry's plan (still waiting on that one) or the current one being offered my the Democrat majority in Congress. I just hope it doesn't involve scissors and sneakers (cut-and-run). Ever hear of something called "winning"? How about bringing our troops home victorious? Do you have a plan? What is it?

I've heard of "winning." Ever heard of a "no-win" situation? Can you fathom the idea that there are objectives that even through the full military might of the US cannot be achieved? And no, I'm more a fan of scissors and loafers...in other words "hey Iraqis, get your crap together because we really are going to leave, ya know."

I'd love to bring our troops home victorious. I'd also like a pony. I'd much prefer to bring them home in defeat than have a few thousand more die only to...bring them home in defeat. Guess that makes me one of those "Defeatocrats" you hear about on talk radio.

Told you I'd get back to this. I guess you are referring to Janet Napolitano. The governor best known for doing absolutely nothing for the state except for refusing steadfastly to refuse to put the National Guard on the border in spite of her having declared a state of emergency. "Wind power" is a joke. Where was she on the Kinder-Morgan pipeline break besides being absolutely incompetent? Why has she vehemently opposed the building of even 1 refinery as proposed in Yuma to reduce fuel costs in the state? Go tell it on the mountain, because I live here. You might believe 'your' lesbian bull-dyke governor is doing a great job, but energy isn't her fine point. And all of your 'electric' contributions are a joke. Where do APS and SRP get their electricity from? Natural gas. Coal. Nuclear from Palo Verde. So, how does over half of what you are claiming even figure into the discussion? Why aren't you driving a fashionable hybrid? And do you know that the majority of the operating costs on that bus you ride are subsidized by taxpayer dollars? Bet you can't wait to ride the light rail on Central...While we're at it, would you care to expound on her gun-rights record? You know, where she has opposed EVERY pro-firearm bill and vetoed all that came before her? Well, until this election year...but with your help, she is free to be "herself" once more for four more years. Talk about tilting at windmills...you REALLY need to bail on this thread while you're behind. Bush and the Republicans aren't your worst enemy.

1) Not Janet; I left Arizona years ago...though obviously you don't like her. You don't sound particularly rational when you call her a "lesbian bull-dyke," though. Also, isn't the "lesbian" portion really unnecessary? Dyke covers that, I thought.

2) I don't drive a hybrid because I couldn't afford one. I don't drive a new car at all...the car I currently drive was 6 years old when I bought it.

3) The bus I ride is paid for largely by student fees (small college town), though yes it is partly covered by taxpayers. Then again, it's also free for everybody in town to use.

4) My Democrat governor has an A rating from the NRA (last I checked), and generally supports the 2nd Amendment. I could care less about Janet's gun-rights record...she's your problem.
 
Quote:
8 years peace and prosperity

"Peace" if you don't count the first WTC attack and the attack on the Marine Barracks and the attacks on embassies in Africa and the attack on the USS Cole and the whole going to war in Serbia and Haiti and Somalia... Not to mention the whole ignoring genocide in Rwanda bit, I guess there is peace if you close your eyes.

You need to put down the demorat koolaid.

+1 !

Klinton was an embarrassment to the office of the Presidency and an bigger embarrassment as our representative leader of the nation to the rest of the world with his flippant attitude and sexual escapades. It was painfully clear that satisfying his presidential member was priority #1 on his list then outright lied about it when confronted and every knew the truth. The draft-dodger descimated our military in his 8yrs of sexcapades, ignored the growing number of attacks on our country repeatedly, cheated on his wife... well Billary anyways (I guess you couldn't really blame him there), and is some kind of hero in the eyes of the bleeding heart masses!
 
If Hillary wins the primary (I have my doubts) It will draw the conservatives out of the woodwork just to vote against her. Conservitaves will vote "the lesser of two evils" which happens to be GOP.(according to them) Personaly I have my doubts as to wether she would even win the primary. It would be one hell of a long shot for a woman to run for president on a major party ticket.
 
Goodbye, TFL...

You know, the more I thought about Jager1's post, the more I realized I really don't think I want to be a part of these forums anymore. Calling somebody gay as an insult (or, more specifically, a "lesbian bull-dyke") is right up there (or rather, down there) with racial slurs. I didn't realize this was a straights-only forum, or that being homophobic was part and parcel of enjoying the second amendment. But from what I've seen around here, this kind of thing is considered okay.

Granted, this shouldn't be surprising considering some of the thinly veiled (or straight-up out in the open) racism I've seen fly around here too. And before any of you get any thoughts in your head, I'll say it again (since the issue of my "race" has been brought up before here in regards to my posts before)...I am not Latino. It's just a screen name. No, I'm 100% white but some of what I've seen around here makes me sick.

No, I think I'd rather spend my time conversing with a bunch of gun-grabbing liberals, because at least they know how to treat their fellow human beings with decency. The only personal attacks I tend to see on more liberal forums relate to people's intelligence, and then generally only when they either do something stupid or parade out some sort of horribly flawed logic. We don't go around calling people, either fellow forumers or public figures, names based on their religion, race, or who they choose to have consensual sex with.

I will say that a majority here don't stoop to this level, even among the more conservative posters. I respect you for that. But at the same time, seeing this kind of crap does seem to be the norm...perhaps it's just part of the firearms enthusiast community. For those of you who don't think calling somebody a "dyke" should be considered a routine part of somebody's rant, I say perhaps you should look around the TFL community and try to clean it up. For those who think it's fine, I won't miss you.

Don't worry, I now I probably won't be missed by you either...no need for snarky comments here to that effect. If you do have anything you feel the need to say to me, PM me...it will get forwarded to my email. I won't be checking back here, so no need to derail this any further.

One parting shot: one of the reasons I think it made me so sick is that not only was it a blatantly homophobic comment, it was a stupid one at that. Again, calling somebody a "lesbian bull-dyke" would be like calling somebody a "gay fag" or a "black nigger." The lesbian part is implied by calling them a dike, making it unnecessary. I mean, come on. That's just moronic.
 
And that will be quite enough for one thread.

Anyone who cannot debate an issue without slinging around pejoratives can just go ahead and look for another discussion venue, because I'm going to go through this thread and unilaterally clean the carpet in Rich's living room, so to speak. Some of you folks aren't housebroken.
 
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