Prepare yourselves....here it comes
- Thread starter Powderman
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So -- the UN in all of their wisdom seem to think that SWMBO and I are wealthy, huh? Seems to me like we are just run-of-the-mill middle class, nothing special.
Quite frankly, I think that the UN is full of natural bovine and equine fertilizer. The reason why so much of the world's people are destitute is because they are governed by a bunch of socialists, communists and other assorted thugs and kleptocrats who kill the respective economies. Their poverty is their own government's fault, and the people love it, and the UN cheers them on. Fine, let them wallow in their poverty. Giving our money to them just enables the ones causing the problems.
If they were really interested in promoting the economic welfare of the world's people, they'd be working against the sort of communist and socialist thugocracies and kleptocracies that are so prevalent out there in the world, bringing about much needed economic reform. But -- no way are they going to do that, since they are representatives of those very same communists, socialists, thugocrats and kleptocrats. They'd rather fleece the productive instead.
JuanCarlos
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Yes, but you hold up unemployment numbers as a sign the economy is doing well. It is an indicator, but it isn't perfect because somebody who has a degree in a more advanced field, but for whom no job in that field exists, is still counted as employed if he's running a register at Wal-Mart. No, it is not the government's job (nor yours) to employ him in his field, but if there is no position for him in his field that is a sign that our economy is not necessarily doing as well as the unemployment numbers would suggest. Even full employment wouldn't be too spiffy if a vast majority of those "employed" are just slinging Whoppers.
I voted for a governor who has dramatically expanded my state's wind power resources. I can't currently afford solar panels (and I rent anyway), but I plan to have them installed when I buy my first home. I drive a fairly fuel efficient vehicle, and take public transit whenever I can (living in a college town, this is often). 90% of the light bulbs in my house are CFL's rather than incandescent, and I've also used a couple old power strips I have laying around to keep wall warts and standby electronics from wasting power. I use programmable thermostats to regulate my heat usage and use less energy. Still not perfect, but I try to do my part.
And yes, it does take a pretty large change in lifestyle from everybody to make it effective. You know who has the power to "encourage" people to make lifestyle changes, even when they don't particularly want to? The government. You know when government intervention is especially important? When those lifestyle changes are needed to curb choices that create negative externalities that won't effect the person creating them until after they're dead, leaving them little incentive to change on their own.
If you can't tell, I'm no libertarian.
Didn't say they did. You just help up a bunch of current conditions and acted as though they were ideal, and I was pointing out that there was room for improvement.
Flawed logic or not? With an attitude like that, you should run for President.
Since we're going to go ahead and use some flawed logic, I suppose I should take to the high seas in search of plunder instead of driving a more fuel efficient car to reduce global warming, as well.
Reading is fundamental. Did you notice my use of the first person (blowing "our" faces off), and my mention that I am one of the ones to be used as bait? A little logic (of the non-flawed variety) should have told you that I'm a member of our armed forces, and have done a tour in Iraq. I actually had a couple close brushes with death while there, and saw far too many good guys get injured or get loaded in boxes onto helicopters.
Your post basically held up the "flypaper strategy" (where we draw the terrorists to Iraq to fight our soldiers instead of actually trying to secure our own country) as a good idea. Personally, I'm not a fan of it. And please, don't dare lecture me by telling me that war isn't pretty, or bringing up our men and women putting their lives on the line...I'm one of them. [EDIT: I'll take your apology via PM, if you please.] And yes, I do feel I was used as bait.
WSM MAGNUM
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Yeh, because Clinton did`nt do anything to upset the economy partly because he was too chicken to deal with the terrorist threats during his term.
Ausserordeutlich
Moderator
Juan Carlos, since you're just a renter, not a property owner, you shouldn't be allowed to enter into discourse with us grownups! 
JuanCarlos
New member
Juan Carlos, since you're just a renter, not a property owner, you shouldn't be allowed to enter into discourse with us grownups!
Yeah, what was I thinking wasting all those years serving in the military, both before starting college and, as a bonus, in the middle of college as well? Certainly wasn't for the college money; I would have qualified for Pell Grants and subsidized loans, and probably some need-based scholarships as well (we were definitely not middle class when I was growing up). I think I had some silly notions about defending the country, upholding the Constitution, and serving my fellow Americans.
Naw, I suppose I should have just mooched a little more directly off the government, gone straight to college out of high school, at which point I'd probably be comfortably middle class now too, able to own my own home and complain about my taxes.
azredhawk44
Moderator
What about those of us "overachievers" who can get high-paying jobs despite having fluffy degrees in Asian Studies or Underwater Basketweaving? I have a highly technical, analytical database administration and programming job that pays well, and I am a fluffy liberal arts graduate with a degree in Asian Studies? Am I somehow "stealing opportunity" from someone who doesn't interview well, or just flat-out isn't as good at the job as I am?
The only thing that makes life go-round is opportunity. If you can't seize the day, then someone else will. That's the bottom line with the economy.
Vermont Carry
Moderator
I think that poster means ISLAMIC terrorist threats, because the C.I.A. and the dark side of the U.S. government are the REAL terrorists.
What was Klinton supposed to do since of course he wasn't going to do the RIGHT thing and disband the C.I.A.? Was he supposed to fabricate intelligence, violate the U.S. constitution and attack nation after nation without a legal declaration of war from congress? Oh wait, he DID, against Yugoslavia.
Hold on there. Daddy bush was JUST as bad as klinton. If perot hadn't split the vote, we still would have lost our a$$es. Well, we DID lose a lot under daddy bush. That import ban was/is devastating.
Wildalaska
Moderator
I'm having a Reynolds Wrap moment
WilddrainbamageAlaska
Vermont Carry
Moderator
Please tell me where the "theory" is in what I said recon. It's funny, you attack what I said, yet you seem to lack the courage to take any stand as to HOW and WHERE I'm wrong. You know SPECIFICS. You don't HAVE any specifics to add? You just trash people and run away?
BTW, "wild alaska" insulter, your post was reported. I've gotten pretty tired of your personal flames and insults and total lack of desire to have adult debate with specifics. Fella, you don't even RESPOND to what I said, you just issued personal attacks.
BTW, "wild alaska" insulter, your post was reported. I've gotten pretty tired of your personal flames and insults and total lack of desire to have adult debate with specifics. Fella, you don't even RESPOND to what I said, you just issued personal attacks.
Guy B. Meredith
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Specific responses require specific allegations. Generalities to generalities.
invention_45
New member
Because, because, because.
Fact remains. 8 years peace and prosperity.
Fact remains. 8 years peace and prosperity.
Vermont Carry
Moderator
That's not true and you know it. There were plenty of specifics in my post. Are you saying that you're incapable of making a specific response about a general statement? You're incapable of adding and building your own specifics to a general statement? Sounds like it. So let's see, you're also defending a poster who uses personal attacks instead of either debating or ignoring. Gee that's just all class :barf: .
Here's a tip for guy, recon, and wild insult man: either add insights to the topic, agree, disagree, or IGNORE. Is that really so hard for you? I added some things to this topic that I felt were true and relevant, and a couple of people apparently are not capable of either explaining their disagreement or IGNORING.
JuanCarlos
New member
But you're falling into the same fallacy from the prior page. Just because he presided over 8 years of peace and prosperity doesn't mean he had any part in creating it. It's possible all he really had to do is "not screw up."
Unfortunately we'll never know what kind of peacetime president Bush the II would have been. Perhaps he would have managed to "not screw up," too. I doubt it, but it's possible.
"Peace" if you don't count the first WTC attack and the attack on the Marine Barracks and the attacks on embassies in Africa and the attack on the USS Cole and the whole going to war in Serbia and Haiti and Somalia... Not to mention the whole ignoring genocide in Rwanda bit, I guess there is peace if you close your eyes.
You need to put down the demorat koolaid.
Likewise, prosperity until it all went bust and the venture capitalists found out all those IT startups squandered their investments and had no product and no business plan to show for it. Then everyone got pink slips and college grads in engineering couldn't find any place to work. Sounds real prosperous to me.
JuanCarlos
New member
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think all of those combined hold a candle to the blazing bonfire that is Iraq. Heck, the Oklahoma City Bombing and WTC bombing don't hold a candle to 9/11, either. Peace is relative.
Unless I'm mistaken, both Clinton and Bush presided over the same number of foreign terrorist attacks on US soil (one). And Clinton isn't even close when it comes to bodycounts of US servicemembers, despite the Cole and other attacks abroad, and our operations in the former Yugoslavia. It's almost as though he wasn't even trying.
By nearly any standard I can think of, 1992-2000 was a much better time to be an American than the last six years.
Ausserordeutlich
Moderator
Anybody with more brains than a pissant would know that 9/11 was conceived, planned, and staged during the Klinton years. Does everybody forget the mess that GWB had to handle, due to the Gore election mess, etc., etc.?? 9/11 would have happened if ANYBODY had been Prez.
The economy is as good now as it's been in my long lifetime. My progeny are doing extremely well. I can't think of a single program that Klinton originated and personally helped through Congress that affected the economy one way or the other.
Like a lot of others, I'm having a pretty hard time with the Iraq war debacle right now; however, putting some Gigolo John (as in Kerry) in the White House wasn't a viable alternative for me. Some of society's problems don't have good answers. The worldwide religious conflicts going on right now are examples of just such problems. No one person in the White House will ever be smart enough to solve the current worldwide mess.
The economy is as good now as it's been in my long lifetime. My progeny are doing extremely well. I can't think of a single program that Klinton originated and personally helped through Congress that affected the economy one way or the other.
Like a lot of others, I'm having a pretty hard time with the Iraq war debacle right now; however, putting some Gigolo John (as in Kerry) in the White House wasn't a viable alternative for me. Some of society's problems don't have good answers. The worldwide religious conflicts going on right now are examples of just such problems. No one person in the White House will ever be smart enough to solve the current worldwide mess.
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