Deaf Smith
New member
Keep in mind guys, you don't find much FOF every month of the year. You find IDPA and IPSC every weekend in many places! And training for a IDPA match is a weekly affair, while FOF, well it's a once in a year if that.
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Practical Vs. Tactical
- Thread starter JBJ16
- Start date
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Greg, while it is fun - it needs to be run by experts with supervision and debriefs after the action. Otherwise it is paintball. Scenarios have to be carefully planned and laid out. You need trained SO's and RO's as the scenarios can be dangerous. It takes a great deal of time to set up.
IMHO - worth what you paid for it - there also need to prereq tactical training to make it worthwhile. There is a lecture and basic skills component set that you should take into it.
As we talked about - Karl Rehn does some nearby.
IMHO - worth what you paid for it - there also need to prereq tactical training to make it worthwhile. There is a lecture and basic skills component set that you should take into it.
As we talked about - Karl Rehn does some nearby.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=710793
A really great summary of the NTI stages and actions to get a look at a quality FOF - written by Randy Harris.
He explained the stages quite well. The after action debriefs are incredibly useful as were meeting the high level professionals from all quarters of the shooting world.
A really great summary of the NTI stages and actions to get a look at a quality FOF - written by Randy Harris.
He explained the stages quite well. The after action debriefs are incredibly useful as were meeting the high level professionals from all quarters of the shooting world.
BullfrogKen
New member
threegun said: Going into a training that will not lead to my death will never rise to gunfight pressure levels.
I can find a bunch of folks over the years who have gone through our FoF exercises who will disagree with you.
Glenn,
I thought about posting something to this, but decided against it.
I'm glad we gave you a good challenge last week.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Ken, folks are posting stage reviews as we speak. I'm thinking about the overall principles that I'm taking away from this year. I think there are metaprinciples about awareness, decision, action and moral motivations. I mentioned this in the debrief about the conflicting messages that we take into a scenario or in the real world.
However, I have to hit the road for a gig and have to catch up at work before. Thus, I want to work on it.
I found this NTI to have challenges beyond my simple actions in a stage - there are real challenges to my conscious and unconscious patterns on both the simple action and philosophical level.
As you said, this was a heart pounder beyond any match. The village let me to babble once and the airport made me switch to a stress control breathing pattern.
One thought when does a civilian scenario become a battle as compared to the typical DGU? The tactics, goals and actions differ. That was seen in the debate with the young marine and some folks.
However, I have to hit the road for a gig and have to catch up at work before. Thus, I want to work on it.
I found this NTI to have challenges beyond my simple actions in a stage - there are real challenges to my conscious and unconscious patterns on both the simple action and philosophical level.
As you said, this was a heart pounder beyond any match. The village let me to babble once and the airport made me switch to a stress control breathing pattern.
One thought when does a civilian scenario become a battle as compared to the typical DGU? The tactics, goals and actions differ. That was seen in the debate with the young marine and some folks.
I shoot both IPSC and IDPA fairly regularly and shoot PPC about once a year. IPSC and IDPA are best considered skill building exercises that have some training value and can be very entertaining. Any competitive event, of necessity, will not be able to duplicate the dynamics of a real gunfight.
But,depending upon the course of fire, there CAN be training value in the process, if you are shooting the IDPA classifier or an IPSC classifier that measures basic marksmanship and gun-handling skills. Some IPSC assault courses totally lack any connection to reality and are best avoided, but classifiers and most IDPA courses of fire are at least semi-realistic.
I particularly like the USPSA Classifiers and the IDPA Classifier match as methods to test basic skills.
FoF training with AirSoft guns or the Simunitions system is MUCH more realistic from a tactical standpoint, provided that the scenarios are properly designed, realistic, and carefully controlled. It's essential that the role players understand the options they have in the scenario, and that they stay within the concept of the training. If the scenarios are unrealistic or the actors don't stay within role, the training can be worse than useless.
Training at the speed of life by Ken Murray is an excellent resource to help you design a training program using non-lethal training ammunition (NLTA)
(I went to the Simunitions Safety Supervisor & Instructor class in 2003. It was very good. I've had the oppertunity to design and run scenarios in in-service training at the PD several times since then. I still have to catch myself and make a strong effort not to design overly complex scenarios. Testing core skills in a realistic situation is more appropriate for most of us)
But,depending upon the course of fire, there CAN be training value in the process, if you are shooting the IDPA classifier or an IPSC classifier that measures basic marksmanship and gun-handling skills. Some IPSC assault courses totally lack any connection to reality and are best avoided, but classifiers and most IDPA courses of fire are at least semi-realistic.
I particularly like the USPSA Classifiers and the IDPA Classifier match as methods to test basic skills.
FoF training with AirSoft guns or the Simunitions system is MUCH more realistic from a tactical standpoint, provided that the scenarios are properly designed, realistic, and carefully controlled. It's essential that the role players understand the options they have in the scenario, and that they stay within the concept of the training. If the scenarios are unrealistic or the actors don't stay within role, the training can be worse than useless.
Training at the speed of life by Ken Murray is an excellent resource to help you design a training program using non-lethal training ammunition (NLTA)
(I went to the Simunitions Safety Supervisor & Instructor class in 2003. It was very good. I've had the oppertunity to design and run scenarios in in-service training at the PD several times since then. I still have to catch myself and make a strong effort not to design overly complex scenarios. Testing core skills in a realistic situation is more appropriate for most of us)