practical purpose for .38 spl guns gone....

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Yes, that horrible "long distance jump" .38s need to make out of a .357 chamber....personally, I think its bunk. We aren't talking about firing a .45colt from a gun cut to also shoot .410 shells here.

people will often cite the difference in the case lengths, .38 and .357, and yes, its 0.135" difference (max length specs). So, that's a big jump, right??

Except, it isn't. First off 0.135" isn't all that big a difference, but more importantly, the bullet jump ISN'T 0.135"!! its 0.04" inches, less than 1/3 of the usually quoted 0.135".

Look at the COAL lengths. .357 is 1.590" .38 Special is 1.550". That's only 0.04" difference in the max LOADED length of the two rounds. I don't see how the difference the bullet had to jump to reach the rifling can be any more than the difference between the length of the loaded rounds.
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I think is likely true that jump distance is not a big concern for accuracy, at least with the average factory ammo.

I fired some 38 Short Colt ammo through a 357 revolver and it produced one of the better groups at 25 yards. At least for that ammo in that gun, jump through the long cylinder did not degrade accuracy.
 
My Winter coat pocket carry is a 38 Special. A Ruger LCR 38 SPCL +p to be exact. Why, over the 357 Magnum? Because with today's bullet technology, and cartridge performance I am not giving up enough in terminal ballistics to make up for the two additional ounces of the Magnum model for easier carry. I have no problem with the recoil of the lighter revolver either. Even when shooting the hotter +P rounds.
 
Yes, that horrible "long distance jump" .38s need to make out of a .357 chamber....personally, I think its bunk. We aren't talking about firing a .45colt from a gun cut to also shoot .410 shells here.
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Yeah, I'm not sure I believe in it either. I think most of the differences people see will be normal gun to gun, loading to loading, and even lot to lot variances. Still, enough people do believe it, that it is one (of many) factors for the continued demand for, and thus continued manufacture of, guns chambered in .38spl only.
 
I just seated some 148 g .358 soft wadcutters long... wondering if that jump made a difference... compared to a deep seat... over the usual 231 load.

The long seated wadcuttters seemed to have slightly worse accuracy. At least it was not better.

I would attribute the decrease in accuracy to increased “rattling around” space in the cartridge compared to a deep seated wadcutter that is making the powder more geometrically uniform in its internal distribution.

Then again, I did some tests long ago with .454 cassul cases with 17g of 2400 under a 240g hard cast shooting after pointing at the ground (powder forward) vs after pointing at the sky (powder back) and vs shaking the gun vigorously horizontal (powder flat) and couldn’t tell much difference in point of aim or accuracy. As I had shot my chrony, my tests were crude... yet I was well protected from wild chronographs for decades. Still am. Word gets out.

So... effects of shooting lighter .38 special loads in a longer case may be insignificant practically... but there is no theory that says shooting a cartridge with extra room for powder to scatter about inside is MORE accurate.

I think the more people that rail on about how .38 special is “obsolete” the more I like it. And... I am keeping my eyes open for that “obsolete” old .32-20 from back in the days of the days when the model T’s kept spooking the carriage horses.
 
I guess it depends on the gun you're talking about. I have 1 M64 (38 Special) and a M65 (357 Mag) and there is virtually no difference in size and weight. So with the 65 I can shoot 38 or 357, not true with the 64.
 
There are plenty of people who don't need or WANT a .357-myself included.
The .38 Special is really about all the pistol that most people can handle effectively-and that's both my AND Bill Jordan's opinion.
 
s&w 642 in 38 special +p is what I picked over a decade ago for a pocket gun. Range had a lot of rentals. The 357mag snubby was a lot lighter, so even with 38 special it felt like more recoil.

People can decide on if they want to reload 357 to 38 special levels or carry 38 in a 357, I wanted the 642 cause at most I was going to carry 38 special +p in it.

Back then ruger had sp101 snubbies, but very heavy and while I had owned some previous I considered them too heavy for 38 special, fine for 357 magnum.

There are more snubbies around today and that could have changed my choice.

These days with more pocket 9mm available I recomend that to folks. Even with small magazines many people have never shot a revolver so a slow magazine change is better than speed loaders or speed strips.

I do like some of the 4 inch police trade ins for 300 bucks a year or two ago, seems a lot are now at 400.

Depending on what you want to accomplish, 38 stuff has its uses.

But as always, this can depend on you. One thing about the 38 stuff is a load or two of snake shot might be useful for woods work.
 
I dunno if I have previously responded to this thread. If so, twice don't hurt.

Despite the OP's opinion, I am perfectly content carrying my 12oz S&W 9mm titanium cylindered Airweight 637-2. Enough so that I have three of them. They go bang every time I pull the trigger, which isn't always true of semi-autos.
 
My Personal Opinion

S&W's worst mistake was falling into every revolver should be a magnum. Even worse than the safety lock.
J & K frames should have stayed as 38SPL.
38SPL comes with better bullets now, no one carries 38 lead round nose 158 grain ammo for selfdefense.
 
S&W's worst mistake was falling into every revolver should be a magnum. Even worse than the safety lock.
J & K frames should have stayed as 38SPL.
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Glad that is just your opinion.... I own J and K frame magnums, would not have them if they were not.
 
Let's use my wife as an example. She has rheumatoid arthritis. She will *never* shoot a .357 Magnum, especially not in a small frame revolver. .38 Spl is her ceiling. Why should she buy a .357 Magnum revolver and *never* shoot .357 Magnum ammo through it? All she needs is a .38 Spl, and it makes sense for her to buy one and carry that.
 
Nanuk, I'm happy for you.
I stand by my statement though. 38SPL is a fine round and those smaller framed guns never needed to be 'Magnumized'
Now talking S&W 681 the Ultimate Combat Magnum strikes a much better balance between size and power.
If one wants a real magnum the 'N' frame is the only way.
 
Nanuk, I'm happy for you.
I stand by my statement though. 38SPL is a fine round and those smaller framed guns never needed to be 'Magnumized'
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Depends on the purpose. Self defense, Ill take a magnum any day over a 38 special. the 38 is marginal for that role. The K frame is the perfect revolver size. My 3" model 13 has untold thousands of magnums thru it.

Now talking S&W 681 the Ultimate Combat Magnum strikes a much better balance between size and power.
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Great pistol for a duty belt, a little heavy for CCW these days. Though as a young cop I carried my 6" 686 on/ off duty concealed in Texas.

If one wants a real magnum the 'N' frame is the only way.
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Why? N frame is no stronger than the L frame as far as the 357 magnum is concerned. The L frame weighs the same (or maybe a smidge heavier) but allows for the same grips as used on a K frame.

I get it, you do not like magnums. I do, after seeing people shot with 38's and magnums I will pick magnums for that role. 38's are fine for practice or for the recoil adverse. But they are not "fine" for self defense or we would not have the magnum.
 
38's are fine for practice or for the recoil adverse. But they are not "fine" for self defense or we would not have the magnum.
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This carries the implication that the 357 is fine for self defense. Nothing short of 100% one shot stops (to center of mass) is really "fine" and NOTHING gets there. Frankly I want laser guidance (and I don't mean a laser sight) to assure good hits too. You are left with the argument of "don't let the perfect stand in the way of the good" in arguing the .357 is the better round which is a fine argument but neglects to consider how much practice a .357 magnum, especially in a lightweight revolver, takes to be competent with.

So is the .38 "fine"? No it is not. But neither is the .357 (or 10MM, .45, whatever) when we really start discussing what fine should be.
 
Some people like .357's, some people like .38's. Some people like .357's in large guns, some people like .357's in small guns... Do we really need to get into a peeing contest over it?
 
Eight pages of silliness. You buy what you want, and the manufacturers make what you want. This ain't rocket science.:rolleyes:

Don
 
This carries the implication that the 357 is fine for self defense
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It is.

Nothing short of 100% one shot stops (to center of mass) is really "fine" and NOTHING gets there.
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OK. There still is not anything in a handgun that is any better.

Frankly I want laser guidance (and I don't mean a laser sight) to assure good hits too.
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How about master your gun.

You are left with the argument of "don't let the perfect stand in the way of the good" in arguing the .357 is the better round which is a fine argument but neglects to consider how much practice a .357 magnum, especially in a lightweight revolver, takes to be competent with.
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I did not neglect anything. I shoot 357 magnums just fine, as a matter of fact just as well as I shoot 38's. I never said that you could, nor did I say that the 357 was good for everyone. I said it was good for ME.

So is the .38 "fine"? No it is not. But neither is the .357 (or 10MM, .45, whatever) when we really start discussing what fine should be.
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That is a subjective argument without a definition. Define what is "fine" and we can move on, otherwise it is useless pontification.
 
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