Powder measure variances

∆∆∆∆∆∆∆ what 44Amp said. I think folks really don't understand the process and get all bent out of shape over a couple of tenths of a grain variance. I use Titegroup exclusively and have zero issues to date with +/- a couple of tenths in powder weight charges in calibers 380, 9 mm, 38/357, 38 sc 40 s&w and 45 acp. Useless worrying
 
well I have had the Johnson quick throw for a couple of days now, and thrown about 200 test loads I tried IMR4350, Varget, CFE223, TAC, and Unique.

the good

- it's well made

- it does not cut stick powder

- it is fast, raise the tube count to three, release and it is done. It is smooth as butter in the operation with anything from TAC to 4350

- settings are very repeatable, I just use my calipers and measure the distance between the rings on the tubes or the distance from the top ring to the bolt head. You can get back to the tenth of a grain easily and quickly in seconds using nothing more exotic than the calipers you have on the bench

-these are made in a small shop in the USA by a guy who shoots and understands reloading, if you have a question you can talk with the guy who made it not some CS person at a major company

- it's small and easy to empty when you are finished. It comes with a tight fitting cap so for range loading it is the perfect take along throw

- price is ok for it's quality. You can buy a lower end Harrels for about this price but it will still have a problem with extruded. Or pay bit more for a auto throw that is not as portable

the so -so

- accuracy is about the same as any other volume measure. Measuring ten throws CFE .223 threw with a .05 gn accuracy, Varget within .15, and Unique was horrible and could vary as much as .4 gns

This was operating just as it came from the box. No baffles, no weights, no tapping or any other tricks to get the powder to settle

the bad

-no instruction on assembly or use, the Youtube video is pretty sparse also. It is pretty simple but the non mechanically inclined might need to call Washington state and ask some questions

- I have a measuring tube that did not want to stay inserted. I considered calling Mr Johnson to return it then thought what the heck and used a O ring from my O ring box as a retainer. A common rubber band would work as just as well but I did not have one handy

- they supply rubber orings to help the adjustment setscrews in place. Next trip to the hardware store I will take a setscrew along and buy some nuts to lock them. I ordered my tubes ala carte and at least two of each one I wanted. The plan is to set one of each size for "pet loads" and the other for testing. Tubes are 8 - 10 dollars so you can afford to have several dedicated to a certain charge if you want.


All in all I like it and it has replaced my Horandy drum style measure on my bench. However if you use extruded(stick) powder a lot and trickle to exact weight, really appreciate good craftsmenship and need a good repeatable throw that is easily portable this one is hard to beat. A Lee Perfect would still be the best throw dollar for dollar but they tend to leak with fine ball powders and are a pure t b**** to set

For the shooter that uses 4350, Varget, 4831 and trickles to weight as I do it is a great purchase
 
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Maybe I am the odd man out, back in the day (70s to mid 80s) I always weighted my charges on the beam when I was making rounds (mostly pistol but some rifle)
 
I threw 75 Charges of H4831 SC into cases with the Johnson then trickled each to weight on my beam. Took about 1 minute per round seating included. Took like ten minutes to throw all 75 , then 30 or 40 seconds to trickle to weight and another ten or so to seat. With breaks about two hours at the bench including set up and clean up. I have it on good authority though that time spent at the reloading bench is not subtracted from the sum total you are allotted.

It's a tedious process but for me it is worth it at the range on those days when everything comes together

With a auto throw and a A&D scale it would have been more like 15 or 20 minutes with the same accuracy and consistency and the darn thing measuring loads faster than I could seat them. I have the Chargemaster but this load is not tuned nearly enough to use the CM for long range ammo. It's only been tested at .3 gn resolution and there is a 60FPS average drop at the next lower test charge.

Somedays that Auto Trickler looks real good:rolleyes:
 
I loaded 400 rounds of 38 Special in the last two days. and loaded with Universal powder (ran out of Unique a while back). I weighed about each 10th charge, and variance was 0.1 low and 0.1 high. I thought that was pretty good, and better than I remember it doing with Unique.
 
Why buy a new powder measure of claimed greater precision and then trickle?
Seems like any old measure that you could set to the desired charge weight plus zero, minus anything would do for trickling. At least it does for me.

Would the Omega trickler serve your requirements?
http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1378-2
 
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Why buy a new powder measure of claimed greater precision and then trickle?
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not sure where I stated any throw is more accurate than the other ?

from post #42

accuracy is about the same as any other volume measure. Measuring ten throws CFE .223 threw with a .05 gn accuracy, Varget within .15, and Unique was horrible and could vary as much as .4 gns
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I bought the Johnson for two reasons, main reason was no jerkiness like you get from the rotating drum measure when they are cutting a stick of powder. Second reason is I have a small box set up for range loading. The small compact size of the Johnson is perfect for that along with how repeatable the settings are means the Lee Perfect which is a pain to adjust will get replaced
 
The other advantage is that because it never cuts grains it dispenses at more consistent bulk density than other measures, keeping the influence that has on effective burning rate more constant. I don't like it with flake powders. The iron rotary drum and charge bar measures do better with Flakes. The JDS QM is my stick powder measure.

I did a test at the range one day with the QM and a Redding BR30 side-by-side charging .308 168 grain match bullet loads with 4064, and got lower velocity SD with charges thrown by the QM. I've forgotten the exact numbers, but it was something like 12 fps vs 9 fps with that coarse stick. The Redding does spherical powders like a dream, though.
 
I did some testing with different powders and measures from Dillon, Hornady and Redding.

The Redding 10X can throw much better than +- 0.1 gr, with basically all powders. Below a comparison I did with similar powders, can't find the table with different powders right now.


Image1.png



Measured with a certified calibrated, lab grade balance. And yes, if you want to weight down to the single kernel, you will need a $1,500 scale and a trickler like the Omega.


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Img_3501.jpg
 
what makes the rotating drum on a 10X more accurate than a rotating drum on a RCBS, Hornady. or Harrel ? I have never used one so I am curious. Is it that accurate with stick powder. My Hornady and Lee Perfect are pretty accurate using a fine ball, I would imagine all throws are. It is the stick and course flake that give them a fit not CFE or TAC
 
hounddawg said:
what makes the rotating drum on a 10X more accurate than a rotating drum on a RCBS, Hornady. or Harrel ? I have never used one so I am curious. Is it that accurate with stick powder. My Hornady and Lee Perfect are pretty accurate using a fine ball, I would imagine all throws are. It is the stick and course flake that give them a fit not CFE or TAC
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The Redding X10 has much tighter tolerances between the drum and the housing (there is basically no play, which is not the case with my Horndays and Dillons), the cup in the Redding is shaped hemispherically which prevents bridging with long stick powders, and the drum is "razor" sharp on the opening, literally cutting through flakes and allowing for more uniform throws.

Accuracy with stick and flake powders is less, but still noticeably better than +/-0.100 gr. That being said, my Dillons can be off by +/-0.165 gr. Again, meassuring this will need a certified calibrated lab grade scale. You will not be able to make this out with a Terminator or beam scale, because they do add their own inconsistency at +/- 0.1 gr.

Redding is known for very tight tolerances. Everybody who owns a T-7 will agree. This turret is much tighter than must single stage presses. This level of precision and quality manufacturing shows in all their products. While not extremely expensive, Redding does not cut corners to make their product cheaper, and in order to compete with Lee, RCBS or Horandy. They also refuse to develop progressive presses because that will ultimately eliminate their reputation for tight tolerances. Their products really pay off.
 
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I agree Redding makes nice gear and the 10X comes with baffles and a micrometer adjustment but from what you posted I see nothing that would affect pack density on powders(air space between kernels) that would give the accuracy you claim on extruded.

I take a 1/4 cup measuring cup and fill it with flour the individual granules of flour will be real close together. I take the same measuring cup and fill it with rice it is physically impossible to achieve consistent pack density without turning the rice into rice dust simply because all the sticks of rice would have to align in the same way with every cup. Sticks at angles would cause a major difference in how many would fit in the cup just as sticks of powder do not in align parallel with each when falling from a hopper. Just 4-5 sticks of Varget would make a difference of .1 grain

I can see it giving the accuracy you claim on fine ball or flake but on extruded and course flake I am skeptical
 
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We had been there before. And I repeat: buy a 10X and go visit your relative with the lab grade scale.
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nope, I think I will buy my own lab grade scale and get a Autothrow and be done with it. I seriously doubt the Redding would throw stick any beter than any other rotating drum. Just the physics of the powder sticks will prevent it

I know a lot of benchrest shooters and attend some of thier matches and watched them develop loads at the range. I shoot competitive F class aonce or twice a month and am thinking of getting into Precision Rifle. The short range benchrest guys use Harrels and the F class shooters either use a tuned beam and trickle up or a Autothrow with a lab grade scale. No one I know uses a Redding throw, even the 100 yard BR guys who think plus or minus .1gns is plenty good enough all use Harrels, there might be a Redding 30BR on the line occasionally but all I recall seeing are Harrels and Culvers .

I am not putting the Redding down , I am sure it works great with flake and ball. Also looking at your weights on the ball powder tells me that you have a very consistent hand on the lever. kudos
 
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I was looking to get this Redding x10 powder measure until I saw it only throws up to 25gr . I first ask 25gr of what . I'm sure it will do 25gr of H-335 and the like but what about IMR-4064 . I bet it barely does 22gr of that powder ???? For me that would be a complete waist of money .
 
My powder is IMR 4064 , using the ChargeMaster 1500 for the first dump then double check and fine tune with the GemPro 250 to 40.84grains . Only shooting 30 rounds at each range trip so 30 rounds doesn't take that long to weigh in two scales .
 
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