Politically Incorrect Firearm Photos

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George - I asked first, so back off!

Jimmy - regarding guns pointed in a safe direction, you're right. But if you want to see lotsa violation by very well trained individuals, attend a police armourers' school. Folks cluster around a gun and are intently studying the function of some part(s); totally oblivious of the muzzle.

Gunny - a Chipmunk would fit the kids nicely. It would be very proportional to them.


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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
"Cute" pictures? Don't be buffaloed here, Lone Ranger. These people are the very "extremists" from whom HCI and others of similar ilk get their "ammunition" -- poignant pictures and direct quotes, no less, from members of TFL with lots of cavalier laughter/support from TFL's "moderators". With all due respect, not exactly the kind of picture I want painted of me.

I too have fun with my guns -- hunting, target practice, etc. But I don't think I'm a prude when I find these pictures a little obscene.

Don't any of you think that this "in your face" approach is just going to marginalize our otherwise legitimate positions? I for one am all for taking the respectable high road on gun rights issues.

With all due respect, the Lone Ranger isn't "Lone" on this one.

Oscar


[This message has been edited by Oscar (edited November 22, 1999).]
 
Oscar,

Well, I guess this “moderator” also must weigh in.

Your opinion is valid. The Lone Ranger has no need to stand alone.
Legitimate differences of opinions are fine. In the America I want to live in,
no parent should be forced to comply with the tastes of those outside
his/her family.

Now, for the word “obscene”. My dictionary says:
“1: disgusting to the senses: repulsive
2: abhorrent to morality or virtue; specifically designed to incite lust or
depravity”

I think “obscene” may have been an unfortunate choice of words.
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All,

If the concept of guns associated with children of these ages is wrong for a
your family, that’s fine. Even if you believe your family should NEVER have
guns, I’ll support your view - for YOUR family.

As for me and mine, my girls were shooting .22 rifles when they were four
and five years old. I did my best to “gun-proof” my girls by eliminating the
“mystery” of guns. I do not feel my family and I are less “respectable”
because I wanted them to understand firearms. I do not feel we took “the
low road”.

I do not recommend what I did to anyone, but it WAS the right thing to do
with my two daughters here in Texas. However, it would have been the
wrong thing to do with my grandson (who happens to live in Schemer
Schumer’s domain).

My kids. My guns. My decision.

If Clinton, Reno, Schumer, Feinstein, Brady, et al don’t like it, they can
bugger off.
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Gunny,

You are an expert with firearms. I regret we were not neighbors when all
our kids were small. We could have learned a lot from you.

I’d let my children, regardless of age, go shooting with you and your
beautiful family any time you’d be gracious enough take them.

(And I hope you’d let me tag along! ;) )
 
Well, lessee...I was shooting by age 6 and by age 10 one of my chores around the farm was varmint control...unsupervised. There are pics in the family album of me, and later my younger brother holding rifles bigger than we were.

You want obscene kiddie pics? What about those "beauty pagents" for tiny girls dressed up like hookers...Jon Benet Ramsey....now thats obscene.

Schmit was a USMC Gunnery Sgt....thats a select class of firearms experts. The man knows what he is doing. And, though obviously not of Sicilian heritage...those kids are absolutely gorgeous!

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Dennis,

Maybe "obscene" wasn't the best choice of words and, perhaps, a bit of an over-reaction. I apologize if I offended anybody. That was not my intent.

I too was raised with guns, and I find nothing wrong with introducing them to kids at a very young age in the proper circumstances. (I was.) Teach them about guns like you teach them about electricity, etc. They're useful and good, but must be respected and can be lethal if mishandled. (Lessons that a couple of these pictures don't really convey all that well.) For what it's worth, I applaud your efforts with your own kids and am sure that you are a great father.

As for these pictures, however, what's the point of posting them here? I can't help but believe that their shock value weighed in on the decision -- i.e., that they would totally offend (and, indeed, be viewed as obscene) by our gun-grabbing political opponents. That the pictures (particularly the first 2) give credence to the gun grabbers in the minds of the political "moderates" is the most bothersome. In short, this mode of entertainment has a potential price.

DC,
I agree with your assessment of JonBenet Ramsey. Her parents were total pigs. NOT my assessment, by the way, of our friend Mr. Schmidbauer. I honor his service and his obvious devotion to his children (qualities that apparently are foreign to the Ramsey's). I don't take issue with the pictures, per se. Just their posting on a public web site.

Just one man's opinion.

Oscar

P.S. I couldn't agree more. These kids are very cute and, I'm sure, the joy of Mr. Schmidbauer's life.

[This message has been edited by Oscar (edited November 22, 1999).]
 
BTW, for a few minutes of FINE reading, check out The Lone Ranger's home page!

(I especially liked the article about the 84 y/o woman telling the cop to "sod off"! :D)
 
As Gunny said when he posted: Politically Incorrect Firearm Photos.

We moderators have been called a bunch of P***ys at ar15.com by ex-members for our restraint (or prudishness). What those detractors fail to see is that The Firing Line promotes intelligent discussion on firearm related topics, safe and responsible gun handling and the shooting sports and not just rantings on End of World, Y2K and trolling behind the anonymity of a computer.

I personally don't see anything wrong or obscene about these photos or with the concept of kids with guns provided the kid is taught safe and responsible handling: something Gunny and his wife certainly do. Lest we forget, for generations parents have taught their children safe gun handling. Before the era of political correctness, nobody thought anything wrong about it and it was expected as part of the parental duty.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt



[This message has been edited by 4V50 Gary (edited November 22, 1999).]
 
I should add that the "guns and babe" type pics can be used much more effectively by the antigun crowd against gun owners than Gunny's photos. After all, who would want to be stereotyped as sex craved, juvenile-minded and inane boor? Gunny's photos are in good taste.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Dear friends,

Didn't mean to offend anybody here, least of all a guy like Gunnery Sgt. Schmidbauer whose service is to be greatly admired and whose commitment to his children is even more commendable.

Maybe I'm just the byproduct of my PC (politically corrupt) environment, but that first picture in particular caught me a little off guard. My first reaction was that it could be overly inflammatory.

Sorry to rant. Too much caffeine I guess.

Best regards,

Oscar
 
Oscar, no sweat Buddy!

By voicing differences of opinions we re-examine our own and either confirm them or enlarge them. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree agreeably.

So long as we put the opinion under the microscope, rather than the person, we'll all move along together! Not a bad way to go.
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DC,

I'll bet those Jon Benet-type shows started out being wholesome and cute - an innocent group version of "dressing up". Then winning became more important than having fun. The result truly is obscene and, in this case, tragically fatal.

Babes and Guns? I like 'em both! But using either to "sell" the other cheapens both. And I know what I'm talking about! I conducted an in depth study of the material... ;)
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(No, I'm NOT going to use my usual signature!)
 
Ladies and Gentlemen,

I wouldn't presume to tell a USMC GySgt how to handle firearms. Equally so, and I'm sure he would back me on this, one of the first things I learnt about firearm safety (from a Regimental Sergeant Major of the Scots Guards) was that there are no stupid questions when it comes to firearm safety. Note that I was quoting the rules written by another fine member of the USMC, Lt. Col. John Dean Cooper USMC (Ret'd).

Cute kids but without the accompanying explanation the photos would make most responsible firearm owners think twice; I see I'm not the only one. Gunnery Sgt. Schmidbauer makes the point that he checked twice AND held the bolt to the rear just in case.

What is good to see is that my response did stir up a debate, held in good spirits and with more than a little mutual respect. Its also good to note that everyone who learnt to shoot as a kid were taught how to safely and responsibly handle firearms and, more importantly, thats what they're passing on to their kids. You can be sure the kids that get into trouble with guns are the ones who learnt from Hollywood and not their parents.

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"Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.") -
Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD).
 
Going past the hype, spin and typecasting, I don't see a problem. I'd be willing to bet he teaches his children responsibly. The evil some might see is in their own minds. Where do these people get the idea to equate things like this with evil? The media, of course! You could think of it as a young patriot in training...........a more honorable endeavour I cannot imagine!!!!
Trust in the basic goodness of people.......unless they are liberal, of course!
 
At first glance, the photos of your beautiful children posed with the guns elicited a similar response in me as that of Lone Ranger and Oscar. I was troubled, and to be quite honest, the first thought that went through my head was, "Aw, Geez, here's more ammo for the Antis. Some guy dressing his kids up in camo and posing them with a gun that can't possibly be safe for a child."



Disclaimer: Sgt. Schmidbauer, I do not presume to pass judgment on you or anyone else concerning what you safely choose to do with your children. I believe that you were diligent in not placing your children in danger while taking these photos.



That being said, I began to wonder why these photos should bother me. One possibility is that I think it may reflect poorly on gun owners in general. My question, then, is, "What is the difference between posting these photos and wearing camo and combat boots to pro-gun rallies?" My gut-level answer is that there is no difference. At these rallies, we try to project a positive image of the average gun-owner by dressing as well as possible and acting calm and polite. Here on The Firing Line, we try to refrain from: mentioning conspiracies by or about CIA, IRS, UN, BATF, Y2K, FBI, SWAT, WACO; flaming each other excessively; or talking about how best to kill people. All for the same reasons, to project a positive image. To do any of the above actions would reflect poorly on "the average gun owner" and wouldn't do our cause any good.



My next question is, "Which one of the above representations is more likely to be felt by the average non-gunner concerning these photos. Is it a good reflection, or a bad one? - or does it even matter at all?" Personally, after much thought on this subject today, I don't think it is a bad thing. But then again this is the choir talkin' , and we want to be preaching to the unwashed masses, right?



Last question (from the band Chicago): "Does anybody really care?" Does it matter what they think?



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RKBA!

"A right is not what someone gives you; it's what no one can take from you." - Ramsey Clark

"Rights are liable to be perverted to wrongs when we are incapable of rightly exercising them." - Sarah Josepha Hale
 
I myself am tired of genuflecting at every turn to the sensitivities of the soccer mom.

Leave me and mine alone to do pretty much what ever we want with our guns and children (if I had any children.)

In my opinion, those that would seek to pacify the sheeple with P.C. behavior with their guns are no different than those republicans in congress who claim to support the 2nd Amendment, but compromise away our rights at every turn.


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“The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals. ... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of.” -Alexander Addison, 1789


[This message has been edited by deanf (edited November 23, 1999).]
 
Deanf - You hit the Bullseye.

The family photos with guns are JUST FINE.
DC's remark about the little kids dressed and painted like little tarts... Thats is not right.

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey, have I mentioned my new book? It is called:
MEN ARE FROM MARS and WOMEN JUST NEED TO DEAL WITH IT!
 
I'll tell you what I thought about when I saw the picture of little Colt. I remembered when Schmit announced his birth on the old Prodigy Shooting Sports BB and how proud he was. I used to lurk there a lot. It's amazing how fast they grow up. (I hope I don't have this mixed up with another Colt that was also "born" on that BB.)
 
That old *P BB was a hotbed of discussion, debate, and de truth(G). I recall that birth and think my response was asking if Schmit had the kid's first firearm picked out. He answered in the affirmative,of course.

And, I,too am weary of soccermom mentalities when it comes to anything as important as personal defense.Here in Md, our BELOVED Atty General has called for the eventual ban of all private ownership of handguns. Guess I'll have to move, Sure will miss the Bay and all that great hunting....
 
To All

After reading a couple of the posts concerning the pictures of my children I flew high and to the right (I have strong feeling concerning my kids, firearms, and other matters of immediate concern to my family and their future) and had planned to post a blasting response. Luckily, I couldn’t get on line and have calmed down.

This morning I again couldn’t get on to TFL. I did however, receive numerous e-mail about those photos.

That said. My posting of the photos was meant in a response to the Guns & Babes link that had been posted in another thread. When viewed in that light, compared to those, my photos were a lot more wholesome. I did not to intend them to solicit some of the responses they did. Dennis posts on this matter parallel my feelings exactly, and I couldn’t have expressed them better.

Now, if the gun grabbing sheeples of the world find the photos shocking or well. That is their problem. If I am labeled as am extremist so be it… I will wear the badge proudly (Marines have already been labeled as Extremist) in that I take my oath of office seriously and will defend the Constitution of our United States. I am also raising my kids in a, what could be viewed as extreme, manner by teaching them the values of honor, courage, commitment, responsibility and use their own mind to make decisions based on those values.

As for the captions accompanying the photos. Well, I have been accused of having an over imagination at times and at other times a very dry/dark sense of humor. Guess this was one of those rare times those two overlapped. :}

Regarding the choice of outfits the kids are wearing. When Colt was asked if he wanted to have his picture taken with his guns he said “yeah” and ran and got his camies, insisting he wear them. Sig watched us take Colts photo and wanted her photo taken but did not want to change (she had just woke up). Olivia, wanted to have her photo taken cause Colt & Sig had theirs and wanted it with her moms new gun and her new outfit we had got that week. So it all just kind of snowballed together. But…. . God I just got love ‘em for it.

To Mel H – Yes that is the same Colt (and Sigorney (AKA Sig) if you lurked at that time)) that was “born on the SSBB.

To Dave McC - Those items (AR, Kodiac, & Knife) were “given” to Colt at his first Christmas when he was 4 months old. This photo of him was taken as I now felt he was old enough to hold those items for the first time

So, the bottom line is… if you don’t like the photos don’t look at them. If you do… enjoy.

End note - Thank Goodness that few people on TFL saw the photo that I posted of my wife... if these caused this much of an uproar I'd hate to think what THAT ONE would have caused!


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Schmit, GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"




[This message has been edited by David Schmidbauer (edited November 23, 1999).]
 
End note - Thank Goodness that few people on TFL saw the photo that I posted of my wife... if these caused this much of an uproar I'd hate to think what THAT ONE would have caused!

Of course, by making such a comment you are now obligated to show us that picture! :)
As Cooper has said: "you may not like it, but there it is."
 
For those of you who haven't seen the photo of Gunny's wife, go to the Handgun forum and look for the thread on a "Great New Website."
 
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