Police kill man in 'no-knock' raid on house

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Sorry Rob, I don't buy it. You don't answer questions...you respond like a politician.

So you personally haven't known of one in your jurisdiction doesn't mean they don't happen. A few grams or even kilos of coke do not justify the death by LEO or ruination of a single innocent person. Not one.
Further, its not incumbent upon me to figure out why someone in LE authority tipped off the media and allowed them in. You are a cop, you want to be a national voice...thats your house, you clean it up. Don't forget you aren't a private concern...thats taxpayer money now. You are accountable.

Don't like it? Too bad, until this crap stops the heat is going to increase on LEO's...bottomline Rob, most folks don't consider you guys friends anymore. They pay lip service, but how sincere is that?

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
I think that we can all agree that there is abuse of warrants-no knock and otherwise. There will always be a human factor. There will always be the possibility of prejudice and bias at all levels.

What I really object to is the idea that my Constitutional Rights can be ignored for "Officer Safety" or "Ease of Enforcement" .

And YES I believe that ALL should pay the penalty! No amount of money can replace a loss of life, but it can penalize wrongdoing.
Isnt that one of the precepts of law and order?


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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Quote"Until this crap stops, the heat is going to increase on you LEO's"Unquote.

That's cute.

Yes, DC, the death of ANY innocent is a tragedy.
However, reading the above post, I wait with bated breath to hear you expound on how we mere mortals, us frail humans who put our butts on the line for you, and every other citizens who,"pays us mere lip service" will achieve a perfect 100%, no screw-ups, no slip-up, no Murphy's Law, error-free safety record.
Tell us, O Wise One, how, in this America of 100 million guns, meth-heads, psychopaths, hate groups, terrorists, bombmakers, poisoners, butchers and sadists, you can instantly tell which house we should raid and which is harmless. Tell us, for this is truly a valuable tool.
Verily, it must be a wonderful thing for Your Greatness to be able to cast Your Mighty Gaze upon a residence and instantly perceive if the inhabitants are a threat!
Ah, to gaze upon the citizens and know in which one the Darkness resides. To know which is a threat and which is a lamb! Ah, Mighty DC, if Thou wouldst give this smallest of your gifts unto thy unworthy servants, so that we may know a sample of Your perfection, to never make a mistake again! Lo!

LawDog
 
If no-knock warrants are difficult to obtain, and if no-knock warrants are so rare, then the percentage of mistakes made in serving them must be rather high, given the number of lethal incidents we are aware of. I just don't believe that no-knock warrants are all that rare.

The system is stacked against the cops, it's supposed to be. Innocent until proven guilty, constitutionally guaranteed protection from unreasonable search and seizure, the right to confront your accuser, trial by jury of your peers, etc, all this and more stacked against the cops and prosecutors, and for good reason. Now, because we've created an unconsitutional, unwinnable war against our own people, we choose to flagrantly violate the basic principles of our system of justice instead of ending the war. Suspension of habeas corpus, no-knock warrants, proposals to limit trial by jury, judges who refuse to inform jurors of their duty to judge the law as well as fact, all of these fly in the face of our natural rights in a vain effort to stem the flow of (some) drugs.

End the war on (some) drugs and you virtually end the need for this type of warrant.
 
Okay, where to start?

First Dr. Rob,

Probable Cause is less than proof, but more than suspision (SP?). What a Citizen observed or over heard, along with the history of the suspect and Officer observations, can be used to build a case for probable cause. This must be articulated and sworn to by the Officer getting the Warrant. But these things by themselves do not add up to proof, in a Court of Law. They also don't always add up to the higher standard of and Arrest Warrant.

DC,
Ever notice that nearly all the wrong house raids are in the Metro Areas? I beleive the problem lies in the over specalization of units. The Swat team that does the raid has no knowlage of the case, and the investigation team isn't in on the raid. The Secretary thhat type up the warrant is completely obivious to everything but the chicken scratching he/she is trying to read. The Judge thinks everything looks in order, and the investgator swears to it. And boom the wrong house gets hit.
I am not making excuses, it is lazy and shoddy police work.
Then there are the time when all the information comes from an informant, with little or no checking by an Officer. That DC is a tragity waiting to happened, and I consider it Criminal Neglect.

I have never gone to the wrong house, but the LEO that got the warrant always pointed out the house, and was part of the raid. Nor have I Ever taken a Informant's word alone for a warrant or a residence.

As to why the LE administration wants the press in on these actions? Remember they are not Police Officers, and some never have been. They are Political Appointees, or worse Elected and looking to get re-elected.

To most of these Metro area lap dogs, the press is a tool to make them and there bosses look good. If thing go wrong, they'll throw a few street cops to the wolves, and sit there all fat and happy. You stay upset at the Street cops, and they are in a win win situation. The everyday LEO on the street has about as much chance of changing that as an ice cube in Death Valley. At least not without the help of the voters, but the voters are not mad at the Chief or Sheriff, they are upset by those "trigger happy" street cops. And After all didn't the Chief fire those bad cops. You know the same ones he chewed for not making enough raids, using the flawed system he set up.

I know of few Officers that think of themselves as incapable of mistakes. And some are just plain dirty. The bad ones survive longer in the larger Departments, where the "them against us" is the norm.

I suggest you support Community policing, so that the LEO's get to know the area they are working. Make Sure it's the real Community Policing not the drivil the Politico's like to pass off as Community Policing.

That is an advantage I have here in the hinterlands. I know the people and they know me, and I care. Because these people are my neighbors, their children go to school with mine. And sometimes I even get a Citizen to give me good info on a BG, because they trust me to follow it up, and they know I won't burn them or blow them off.

No amount of care will stop all the mistakes. Just as not stopping some of those that pray on the innocent will cost innocent live, I'm sorry to say that attempting to stop the preditors will also put the innocent at risk.

I sadly can state, that no amount of wishing, training, cussing, or complaining can make an LEO anything other than a failable human, who just like every other human wants to go home at the end of the day. Have a beer, and talk on TFL.
 
Raymond;
You have explained a lot of it and thank you for obviously being commited to "Serve and Protect".
A lot of people generalize and say "if one is bad, all are bad". This logic s found in the general public as well as in law enforcement and breeds the US vs THEM situation that exists.
I am pro-law enforcement and pro Constitution.I think we CAN have it both ways. We NEED law enforcement officers that we can be proud of. It has been pointed out here and elsewhere that most LEO's ARE people we can be proud of and that we only hear about the bad apples.
I salute you and all the other officers who daily risk it all for me and my family.

Lets not argue about it. Lets push for law enforcement that truly supports and defends the constitution.And then we can all be proud.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Raymond..

Thanks for an obviously well-thought answer. I live in a rural area, and our sheriffs used to be assigned for months and even years. We knew him and he knew us. None of the us vs civilian mentality. Not so these days, they are assigned for a couple months, never hang around to get to know anyone and no interest in doing so.
Seems like policing has gone the way of public education....we used to have a pretty good system, it got crapped up by the experimenters and now they think it might be a good idea to return to the old ways.

Lawdog...I thank you as well, for the contrast. ;)

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
120K+...locking down. Start part 2 if desired

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
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