Police and other LEO ... please help me out here ...

Hatred of most groups, even attorneys, is wrong.

The problem is that when a group becomes known for a pattern of behaviour, it is fair for people to expect and protect against that behaviour.

That's an excellent reason for the citizenry to hate and fear the police. Hatred of the police is wrong. Hatred of certain individuals who earn it is.
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Waiting for them to earn it seems a problem as well. Would anyone here feel comfortable telling his daughter to comply with all orders of the officers in the video?
 
That's the problem. People see the badge and uniform, how do they judge who's behind it except by their fellow officers, especially if those fellow officers conceal and defend bad behavior.

Hatred of the police is wrong. Hatred of certain individuals who earn it is.
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If the military treated a female prisoner like this, the media would be screaming! Where is their outrage when it is just some school teachers wife?
 
If LEO's want credibility for their profession, they should "out" the bad eggs. Otherwise, it's organized crime just like the Mafia, no two ways about it.

A conspiracy of silence is still a conspiracy.
 
It is the job of the police to enforce the law. No one should be more accountable to obey it save perhaps than those who make the laws. A cop who violates the law is 10 times worse than a citizen who does.
 
I would really like to know more about this case. From what I can gather the Sheriff, strkshrf@raex.com , is saying it was not a strip search. Presumably her clothing was removed because of concerns she might harm herself.

I have to wonder, what if a fat hirsute middle aged male answered the assessment question the same way, reportedly : Q) "Have you thought about hurting yourself?"

A) "Now or Ever?"

According to the victim this was the trigger. Now I am big and fat and hairy. Would they have been in such a hurry to strip me in the same situation?

Can they demonstrate that all disorderly conduct suspects get that treatment?

These are things that I am curious about.
 
What's up with her giving the cops false ID? I really don't buy the explanation that it was carried for sentimental reasons and handed to the police by mistake. The people I've run across that hand over false ID, do so because thier true ID is linked to criminal activity or trying to keep their true ID clean.
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*Bzzzzt* wrong response. :rolleyes:
She was the victim of an assault and was probably still shaking when the cops arrived and slightly less than focused on her own actions.

I know. Similar thing happened to me in S.F. while out to dinner one night. Was holding a friend's wallet while he dashed back to the restaurant for his credit card. Got blindsided just inside the parking garage and hit in the face twice. Thug went for one of our wives' purses and she planted a hard right jab on his kisser. :D I was holding a bandage over my eye when a cop asked for ID and I fumble it ouf of the wallet. Alas, my friend's first name is also William and I'm clueless until he asks if I still live in Emeryville. :confused: "Oh wait, that's not mine, it's his...here" and I fumble for my wallet. Now both cops get all pissy until my wife explains. They then ask my buddy and his wife. Essentially the cops shrug it off with a postcard report. But before they leave the younger of the two cops tells me that if it were up to him, I'd be going to jail for giving him the wrong ID... :rolleyes: I told him great...next time I won't dial 911, we'll just leave the corpse on the sidewalk for him to deal with. (that didn't go over to well).

She wasn't acting "normally" by any stretch of the imagination. The cops didn't appear to be enjoying the strip and if they thought she was suicidal, a strip might be appropriate. Case in point, the woman who asphixiated herself at Sky Harbor, AZ while in custody, in cuffs.
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Pray tell, what are the "normal" actions of a person who is the victim of assault when you treat them as the suspect, cuff them and stick them in the car?

As stated before, whether the cops got "enjoyment" or not is irrelevant. Can you articulate ANY reason to justify NOT waiting until more female officers arrive to handle removal of clothing? What circumstances were so exigent that dictated she be forcibly stripped immediately?

Lastly, the women in AZ was left unattended and handcuffed with her hands behind her. She died trying to get the cuffs in front of her (the official story said). There were obviously plenty of available people to strip the woman in this case...why couldn't someone stand watch over her until additional female deputies were summoned?
 
I was in a carbine course with group of officers and deputies. The subject of complaints filed against them came up. One deputy stated that after his first complaint of sexual assault during the search of a woman, he realized that he'd always get them no matter how careful he was. So, he stated that he decided to have some fun while searching them, by searching them "real good."

Guess these "individuals" had the same thought.
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And that officer should be disciplined and forced to go back through his training on searching suspects.

Being caught searching a female subject "real good" WILL result in a career damaging complaint.
 
*Bzzzzt* wrong response.
She was the victim of an assault and was probably still shaking when the cops arrived and slightly less than focused on her own actions.
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She claimed to be the victim. That doesn't make it so. It also doesn't preclude her from doing or saying something that would get her arrested.
They then ask my buddy and his wife. Essentially the cops shrug it off with a postcard report.
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Which did not happen in this case. Her sister wasn't present to help explain. It sounds that the ID was presented as though it were hers.
Pray tell, what are the "normal" actions of a person who is the victim of assault when you treat them as the suspect, cuff them and stick them in the car?
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I can tell you what they are not: fighting several police officers at their station while in cuffs. Do you have any delusions of winning that scenario?

Do you think these cops video taped this incident for their own entertainment? I would bet it was taped for CYA reasons.
 
I can tell you what they are not: fighting several police officers at their station while in cuffs. Do you have any delusions of winning that scenario?
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An innocent victim who calls the police for help is thrown down on the floor, and stripped of her clothes by strange men, without even being given a reason for the strip. In her own words, she said she felt as if she were "raped without penetration". Would you have her just lie their limply while strange men expose her body? Would you have your wife or daughter do the same? Do you think that just because these strange, violent men wear a badge, that they can do no wrong?
 
Well, several observations.....

There are too many gaps in the taped footage and stories to know what really happened that night.

She may have been a victim at one point, and done something Disorderly when the officers "took her dead sisters ID" that may have caused her to be arrested. Many officers are injured and killed by VICTIMS who suddenly become violent

The video camera is usually SOP when a SORT team is called to a cell to deal with an unruly prisoner. (She appears to be Intoxicated or mentally distraught IMO).....The county jail in my area will take all prisoner's clothes off, and give them only a paper "blanket" if they believe they are suicidal. This is a very common practice.

As far as men being in the cell....depending upon manpower issues, They may have only had 1 or 2 females working that night, it may have been unsafe for them alone to deal with this woman by themselves. Her size is not relevant. I have seen women and teenagers who weigh 120lbs go ballistic and it takes 6 officers to hold them down.
 
Read about this a while ago.She was arrested for assaulting a family member, resisted arrest, and was intoxicated at the time. In a perfect world there would be plenty of female deputies to restrain her. In most small agencies there are very few female officersso you have to use males sometimes. You do what you have to do. If they let her hold onto her clothes and she hangs herself, they get jammed up. Take them away, they still get jammed up,but shes still alive.

I had a girl try and hang herself with her bra. And a girl in Naugatuck, CT, hung herself with her socks. Google Falan Fox and read about it.

Police work isnt pretty. If they let her hurt herself there would 100 cop haters on here saying "Why didnt they stop her, those big mean cops!"
 
Police work isnt pretty. If they let her hurt herself there would 100 cop haters on here saying "Why didnt they stop her, those big mean cops!"
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I don't see many "cop haters" responding to this thread. I do see quite a few questions about problems raised by the video.

In that respect, this thread strikes me as considerably more contemplative that the first page of its Glocktalk counterpart.
 
Frankly, I dont go to the doctor and ask him if hes sure I need an operation, I leave that to the professionals. That being said, I have personal knowledge of people killing themselves with clothing. Been done, will sadly probably happen again.

I read about this incident on another site for cops. She was not a victim, she assaulted her cousin. Many, Many, Many people call the poice and then believe that if they called first then they MUST the victim. I have been at hundereds of scenes were the supposed "victim" is screaming "But I called you guys, why am I getting arrested?" as their wife/husband/girlfriend, whatever stands there bleeding, or bruised, etc. Remember what you are reading, a defense attorney wrote this little sob story, of course she felt like she was sexually assaulted, that will get her some $$$$$$. Plus, I smell bs n the "I carry my dead sisters license as a keepsake." I would hazard a gues the sisters ID makes her over 21, or whatever, or she uses that to hide her identity. I have lost family members too, never kept their ID.

So, lets sum this up,she assaults her cousin, provides a false id, fails to follow instructions, resists arrest, then makes somesuicidal statements. And shes the victim and the Police need to be reamed, or fired or are a bunch of F'ing Knotheads. Thats the general opinion ofmost people here.If I read these posts correctly.

Police make mistakes, I have before, I will again. Some cops should not be cops, no denial of that.But in this case, I think they did the best they could with what they had. I agree if there were enough female depties, then let them do the job. When you dont ave enough, you make do.
 
Lots of LEOs are very fine people, and questioning the acts of some doesn't impugn them all.

So, lets sum this up,she assaults her cousin, provides a false id, fails to follow instructions, resists arrest, then makes somesuicidal statements. And shes the victim and the Police need to be reamed, or fired or are a bunch of F'ing Knotheads. Thats the general opinion ofmost people here.If I read these posts correctly.
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I think that is a big "if".

I appreciate the context lent by the LEOs who have responded. Reading an account on a LEO board doesn't transform "Now or ever?" into "some suicidal statements".

Noting that police work is hard, and that some procedures that are not intuitive are required, while valuable context, doesn't turn questions about what would ordinarily be obvious sexual assault into "cop hating".
 
I don't get the logic that says ... if someone is suicidal that you strip them naked ...

IMO such a traumatizing act could be the straw that makes them suicidal ... especially a woman. So who's going to stop her when she gets out of jail , home and hangs herself with a rope , takes a bottle of pills or takes her last bath in the tub accompanied by a razor blade ... possibly with a note about how being violated like that left her no other choice because she couldn't take the emotional anxiety of it any longer.

Seems to me , if you think someone is suicidal , you try to help them. Keep them restrained and maybe call someone trained in helping suicidal patients.

In the meantime ... keep an eye on them and as I said ... keep them restrained ... maybe even try talking to them!

I dunno ... maybe I'm crazy here , but that's what I'd think should be done. The do as I say or else method is counterproductive in this situation.

Somewhere along the line compassion seems to have taken a vacation. :(
 
Aside from the issue of whether the average LEO is competent to determine whether an individual is suicidal, PDs are greatly concerned about leaving someone in a position to kill themselves. A motivated person can kill himself with nearly anything. Your point about the psychological effect of an assault on a woman is excellent, however the PD response isn't to a medical issue, but one of civil liability.

I believe there are also liability issues associated with leaving a person restrained.
 
I agree that someone who is suicidal needs help. No doubt about it. However, until that help arrives the role of leo's is to prevent that person from harming themselves. People have killed themselves with clothing many times. A paper gown, or a tear proof smock that some jails have just for suicidal people would be the best course of action. Two weeks ago I had a lady call 911 and report her husband assaulted her. Upon arrival it became clear that hse had assaulted him, in full view of theneighbors and a DOT road crew. She gets arrested, refuses to be processed and is placed in a holding cell.10minutes later she is wrapping her bra around er neck and through the cell door. Now she is topless and is only wearing a g-string looking thing, the rest of her clothes are on the floor, her bra is around her neck. The only officers available? 4 males, including me. So do we stand around and say, oh well, cant go in there, shes naked and we are men? No, we do what has to be done. In a perfect world there would be female officers all the time. This isnt a perfect world,not even close.

There is more to this story than you are reading here. This whole sob story was written by her attorney. Slanted to make her the "victim".
 
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